Tbolt Posted February 11, 2023 Share Posted February 11, 2023 Looking at the Brassin bronze legs for the Eduard 109 they do two, 648308 for the 109F and 64309 for the 109G. But looking at the renders for them I can't see a difference. So does anyone know what the difference is and what versions they are applicable for? KMD do a set a gear legs for the Eduard kit which it's says for G-5 and later but these look different to the Brassin ones. https://www.hannants.co.uk/product/KLG4801EDU?result-token=sUz8k 308 309 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WrathofAtlantis Posted February 15, 2023 Share Posted February 15, 2023 The difference is in the bulk of the upper leg. You can see one it is of a slightly greater diameter in the upper leg as per reinforcement from late G-2s forward. (I think this includes also the fatter later wheels, and wing top bumps.) This is a major issue in all 1/48th kits of the later Me-109G, except the recent Tamiya G-6, the only one correctly bulkier on top. But it remains a little skinny in the bottom portion. Otherwise it is the only generally accurate late 109 gear leg in plastic. Once mounted, the visual difference is very noticeable. All Eduard and Zvezda kits have skinny F legs, even the Eduard G-10s... In addition, the Eduard legs (but not Zvezda) are way too long, so I would not trust these brass legs if they match the length of the plastic Eduard ones. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tbolt Posted February 16, 2023 Author Share Posted February 16, 2023 14 hours ago, WrathofAtlantis said: The difference is in the bulk of the upper leg. You can see one it is of a slightly greater diameter in the upper leg as per reinforcement from late G-2s forward. (I think this includes also the fatter later wheels, and wing top bumps.) This is a major issue in all 1/48th kits of the later Me-109G, except the recent Tamiya G-6, the only one correctly bulkier on top. But it remains a little skinny in the bottom portion. Otherwise it is the only generally accurate late 109 gear leg in plastic. Once mounted, the visual difference is very noticeable. All Eduard and Zvezda kits have skinny F legs, even the Eduard G-10s... In addition, the Eduard legs (but not Zvezda) are way too long, so I would not trust these brass legs if they match the length of the plastic Eduard ones. Thanks for the info. Do you have the Brassin legs? As like I said I can't see the difference in the renders and I've aligned the images of the two different renders and they are pretty much a perfect match, so have Eduard messed up the renders or the actual items? I can see the difference between the Eduard and Tamiya legs. But like you say if these are also too long then it's not really worth paying for them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PatG Posted February 18, 2023 Share Posted February 18, 2023 Must confess I'm struggling to see any differences between the two sets of bronze legs so either will be right, or wrong. Pat. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WrathofAtlantis Posted February 18, 2023 Share Posted February 18, 2023 (edited) I agree, on the second look, that given the brake line obscuring things, there is no difference to see. However I did compare the brass parts to the plastic part, and while the brass part is much thicker than the plastic part (correct for G-2 and above), it seems like it could be about the same overall length, which is wrong. The Eduard plastic gear legs are both too thin past the G-2, and way too long, giving the kit the wrong look in the way it sits. Never mentioned is that the tail on the Eduard is much deeper under the fin leading edge than the Tamiya G-6 kit, and it is the Tamiya kit that is correct. I think the Tamiya is a much better kit of that subject, both in the legs and tail, and the Eduard parts could be used to make non-G-6 variants out of it. Edited February 18, 2023 by WrathofAtlantis 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard502 Posted February 18, 2023 Share Posted February 18, 2023 WrathofAtlantis, by how much do you recommend to shorten the Eduard gear legs? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WrathofAtlantis Posted February 19, 2023 Share Posted February 19, 2023 You just made me realize I lost sprue A on my Tamiya kit during my move (packing 3 kits to a box and all)... Fortunately, the Zvezda Me-109G-6 kit also has the correct sit, even if the wrong skinny F-type legs (unlike the Tamiya G-6), so the leg length can be compared by matching features with the Eduard part, and the problem becomes really apparent... About 2 mm or 1/16" should be taken out in the bottom portion. Which is huge. https://photos.app.goo.gl/4C8gjT4ruBYCEjDt9 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tomas Enerdal Posted February 23, 2023 Share Posted February 23, 2023 I happen to have both, pulled them from the stash and compared: They are absolutely identical! They represent the later reinforced leg used on G6/G5 - K4, so don't use on anything earlier. Although too long, they are beautiful in shape and detail. The extra 2 mm seem to be at the very top so just shorten from above (but I'll check again tonight against photos. It's difficult to compare to drawings in this case, even if you trust the drawings themselves, the slant from both the side and front IRL makes it hard to measure). The bronze is very hard, I use a grinding wheel, and wear safety glasses.. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tempestfan Posted February 23, 2023 Share Posted February 23, 2023 I'd have expected any excess length to be in the oleo section, between the scissors. I have no idea how compressed and uncompressed late G legs look, but to me the brass legs look rather umvompressed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tomas Enerdal Posted February 25, 2023 Share Posted February 25, 2023 (edited) I took a bronze leg and put it on a Brassin G-10 wheel and compared it to this pic. (walk around in The 109 lair) The details on the leg ends up more or less perfectly with respect to the wheel itself, the top of the tyre is the reference point in my case. This is the only clear pic I've found from the rear. Unfortunately the scissors link is missing in this case but I see the same proportions in other pics. The scissors links will be almost totally hidden between the rear of the wheel/tyre and the gear cover from the common viewpoints; front/sides. As usual each modeler has to decide for themself. Be aware however, that surgery on those bronze legs will be very difficult due to hardness of the metal. Edited February 25, 2023 by Tomas Enerdal 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WrathofAtlantis Posted February 25, 2023 Share Posted February 25, 2023 On 23/02/2023 at 11:37, tempestfan said: I'd have expected any excess length to be in the oleo section, between the scissors. I have no idea how compressed and uncompressed late G legs look, but to me the brass legs look rather umvompressed. If you look at my comparison while matching ring features with the Zvezda leg, you will see most of the extra Eduard length compared to Zvezda is in the lower leg, but also above the oleo compression portion. In fact, the two parts are barely different in oleo compression... Now that we established the AM bronze legs are identical in length to the Eduard plastic, I would say the Eduard plastic is much easier to shorten without having a weak point made worse by the hardness of the material leveraging against the joint... Metal to metal is going to be weaker than plastic to plastic because the hardness disparity with the joint will be larger. Plastic allows making a hole on both ends, and putting in a short superglued metal pin, which will be even stronger. For the post G-2/4 fatness, I agree bronze is your only cheap option for fat legs. I would try to get the Tamiya A sprue if you can, for the simplest path to the thicker legs. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elger Posted February 26, 2023 Share Posted February 26, 2023 Alternatively, if you want to play around matching different kits' legs to the Eduard kit somehow, the old Revell G-10 kit is pretty much the same price as the Eduard Brassin bronze legs set. Molding is cruder than the equivalent Tamiya parts but have the right thickness and length. See here: http://www.arcforums.com/forums/air/index.php?/topic/301905-148-bf-109-g-5-through-k-landing-gear-legs/ 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tomas Enerdal Posted February 26, 2023 Share Posted February 26, 2023 As can be seen in the link in the post above, the plastic leg in all Eduard kits of the 109G is undernourished, uninspired in detail, has wrong proportions and is too long. The Brassin is so much better in all aspects, apart from being too long as well. As the pic shows in plastic the Tamiya is best, followed by Revell. It takes some work but the Revell legs can be carefully sanded and filed to improve the sharpness of detail. As an aside I have managed to improve my Zvezda legs by adding thickness and detail. Thickness was accomplished by wrapping the reinforcement collar with very thin plasticard and careful sanding. I'm hoping for that Eduard will put things right in their new kits of the 109K-4 and CS-199, later this year. According to Eduard, they will be all new kits with no parts from their 109G series 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WrathofAtlantis Posted March 10, 2023 Share Posted March 10, 2023 On 26/02/2023 at 08:10, elger said: Alternatively, if you want to play around matching different kits' legs to the Eduard kit somehow, the old Revell G-10 kit is pretty much the same price as the Eduard Brassin bronze legs set. Molding is cruder than the equivalent Tamiya parts but have the right thickness and length. See here: http://www.arcforums.com/forums/air/index.php?/topic/301905-148-bf-109-g-5-through-k-landing-gear-legs/ Excellent comparison. The Revell option is a new one to me, and very cheap and widely available, making it a likely valid idea for the "stout" look.... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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