"Pre production" Fw 190 discussion- started with paint, but now expanded to broader horizons (small wing, etc)

[gingerbob]

Hi all, this thread started specifically asking about paint jobs, as shown in the next two lines:

 

https://www.worldwarphotos.info/gallery/germany/aircrafts-2/fw190/fw190-a-0-u2/

 

For example, the ones pictured in the linked photo above.  What colour(s) are they?  On casual observation, it looks like just one, at least topside.

 

But wait, you also get...

I'm investigating the "small wing" aircraft.  My understanding is that the "Fw 190 V5" (Werk Nummer 0005) was the third 190 to fly, and the first with the BMW 801 engine.  The airframes up to and including Wk.N. 0014 were also built with the small wing, even though it was probably already known that a larger wing would be incorporated for "proper" production aircraft.  V5 received the first "large wing" following some damage, and Wk.N. 0015 was the first airframe built with the new wing.

 

There is some confusion about designations- some refer to all the small wing aircraft (not counting the first two prototypes) as "V5k", while others say that the first 190 A-0s were the small-wing aircraft.  Another explanation is that both designations were used in parallel.  I haven't heard of more than one individual having the same "V number", though.

 

I'm considering a conversion to one of these "small wing" aircraft, so am trying to understand both the wing itself, and the subject aircraft so that I know what else to change and how to finish it.

 

One thing I've noticed is some "bumps" on the lower sides/ underside of the cowling, as particularly well seen in this photo:

https://www.worldwarphotos.info/gallery/germany/aircrafts-2/fw190/fw190-v5k/

 

They seem to be pretty consistent on the pre-production aircraft, but then disappear.

 

OK, that's enough to get started with!

 

 

Troy started two threads in recent history, but my inquiry seems to fall in between.  If possible, let's try to keep information in the appropriate thread (if it can be discerned!) And yes, I know I already muddied the waters with my comments in one of those, but that was then...

For reference:

 

 

Edited February 11, 2023 by gingerbob
more accurate description of where this thread might go, and more info.

[G.R.Morrison]

I try to avoid making pronouncements on paint, as our perceptions can be both subjective and deceptive.  To ME, it seems likely these are in RLM 02, but the fuel port doors appear as yet unpainted.

 

In the foreground of your linked photo, FW 190A-1 WNr.10010 (Stammkennzeichen: SB+KJ) which became “braune 5” of the 6./JG 26.  It was lost 24.March 1942, north of the mouth of the Somme.  Staffelkapitän Oblt. Otto Behrens was injured parachuting after combat with Spitfires.  Behrens’ persistence in ironing-out the overheating problems of the early BMW 801 saved the Focke Wulf development program from cancellation.  In July 1942 he was transferred to the test establishment at Rechlin.

 

GRM

[gingerbob]

Thank you- I confess that "overall RLM 02" was my gut feeling, but that's based on almost no actual knowledge (even second-hand) of Luftwaffe practices.

 

You wouldn't happen to have any information about the "small wing" V5s and/or A-0s, by any chance?

 

bob

[G.R.Morrison]

8 minutes ago, gingerbob said:

You wouldn't happen to have any information about the "small wing" V5s and/or A-0s, by any chance?

 

Some few Fw 190A-0 examples show up in repair documentation from Auxerre/Cravant, Sonderreparaturbetrieb G.L. (Ago Flugzeugwerke), much later than 1942, but otherwise, no.  My interests have always been confined primarily to operational machines.

 

GRM

[MDriskill]

Take a look at this thread, which describes the use of preliminary shop coatings on WW2 aircraft sheet metal - still a common practice today (the excerpted photo is from Curtiss, which used a blue varnish known as "Lionoil"):

https://www.tapatalk.com/groups/hyperscale/ww2-aircraft-sheet-metal-question-t527181.html

 

 

Such coatings serve three purposes: light corrosion protection for stored material; some scuff resistance when handling; and a base for scribed fabrication lines to be clearly seen. Often the coating was removed before finish painting, but other times not.

 

These photos of early Fw 190's under construction indicate that a similar practice was followed in the German industry:

 

 

 

I would suggest that much of what we see on these prototypes - on the fuselage panels at least - is simply a similar shop coating. Whatever it is, it was obviously applied before the panels were riveted.

 

(Such coatings might also explain some of the odd stuff we see on late-war aircraft with reduced painting requirements...but that's a debate for another day. 🙄 )

 

Edited February 11, 2023 by MDriskill

[Werdna]

I'm inclined to agree with the above.  'Unpainted' finish, except for fresh markings applied for propaganda/photography purposes, would be my guess.

[gingerbob]

11 hours ago, MDriskill said:

I would suggest that much of what we see on these prototypes - on the fuselage panels at least - is simply a similar shop coating.

 

Yes, I was rather afraid that it might be some (in over-simplified terms) generic primer.  It looks more uniform in some photos than in others, which might be down to the quality of the photo/reproduction.  It seems perhaps a bit unusual to put national markings on such a state of finish, but these airframes appear to have been designated as development aircraft anyway.  There are some photos that show a "one-color" aircraft in amongst more conventionally painted examples, which presumably are "real" production, destined at least theoretically for a service unit.

 

I did find a comment in "Fw 190 in Action Pt.1" that the early ones were painted overall RLM 02, but frankly that is the sort of statement (in that kind of source) that makes me wonder how he knows, and whether it might simply be the same sort of "gut reaction" that I had when looking for an explanation of what I was seeing.

 

Some photos I've been looking at show similar puttying on the screw heads of the gear doors to what we've gotten used to seeing on other examples, and at least one image, supposedly of a V5k, shows what I take to be some smoothing work (?) and at least a dusting of paint along the wing leading edge/main box join, which I was having trouble reconciling with "overall coat of paint".  There were some other obvious sections (top of fin, as a possible example) that clearly didn't match the "uniform" paint, too.

 

Mike (it is Mike, isn't it?), thanks for those production photos- I've been looking for that sort of thing (the wing) to help me understand the differences between the small and production form, the better to hack and slash my way back!

 

bob

 

p.s. Clearly it is time to change my topic title, and I'll add a bit more on the initial post for those just joining us.

[MDriskill]

Thanks - Mike it is. The photos are from the Focke-Wulf Fw 190 title, no. 5 in Osprey's Production Line to Front Line series. It has a couple more photos from this series that I didn't show here.

 

I'd be very interested to learn more about the preliminary coatings used on aluminum sheet stock in German a/c production. Again, I wonder if we see these on finished aircraft more than we realize, especially late in the war.