North American Mustang Mk.II FR919

[Mustango702]

I have started to build a model of the plane mentioned on the title(Accurate Miniatures 1:48). The plane is familiar from multiple profiles and Frog had it as their Mk.II model:

 

https://www.oldmodelkits.com/index.php?detail=17349&page=21

 

I have never seen an actual photo of the plane. Could someone help me with it?

 

Harri

 

 

 

Edited February 10, 2023 by Mustango702

[stringbag]

Try http://www.ipmsstockholm.se/home/camouflage-and-markings-of-north-american-p-51-mustang-part-2/

[rossm]

The nearest I can get with a photo is FR915 L in the 2nd TAF book vol2 co-authoured by @Chris Thomas

[Chris Thomas]

There is a photo of an FR Mustang, coded 'N', taking off from a French ALG, in the original '2nd TAF' book (Osprey 1970) p93. A distant shot, serial not visible, but the markings match those on the box art for the Frog kit pretty well (down to the rear D-Day stripe positioned over the Sky band and extending half way up it).  The photo is somewhat briefly captioned 'Mustang I' but it could be a Mk II.  No idea where the serial came from. 

 

Perhaps I ought to point out that FR915, as spotted by Ross (above) featured a Malcom hood - rarely seen on Mk Is and IIs.

[SteveBrooking]

There were only 50 Mustang II assigned to the RAF and there seem to be very few photos.

 

There is a thread here on RAF Commands that adds some confirmation that FR919 carried the code ‘N’.

http://www.rafcommands.com/database/serials/details.php?uniq=FR919

 

In my view the various bits of artwork that come up when you search for FR919/N do not depict a Mustang II. I think Chris is correct in suggesting the artwork is probably based on the photo he describes from the original 2TAF history. That photo can be seen here.

https://www.iwm.org.uk/collections/item/object/205211643

The IWM caption for this photo is not correct. The aircraft is Mustang I AG424 from 430(RCAF)Sqn.

 

One of the key identifiers for a Mustang II is the position of the fuselage roundel which was much further forward, closer to the cockpit than seen in the photo of AG424/N from the IWM. This photo shows an AAF P-51A with the US insignia in this forward position.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_American_P-51_Mustang_variants#/media/File:North_American_P-51A_061023-F-1234P-011.jpg

 

It seems the positioning of the insignia resulted from the US requirement for the aircraft Call Number to be painted on the rear fuselage in large yellow characters 10x6.5 inches. This is illustrated in this image of the first P-51B prototype.

https://www.thisdayinaviation.com/5-may-1943/

 

On the 50 Mustang II assigned to the RAF the British insignia was applied in the same (forward) position.

https://www.reddit.com/r/WeirdWings/comments/z7gtee/raf_mustang_ii_p51a_fitted_with_streamlined/

 

 

Edited February 12, 2023 by SteveBrooking
Cock up fixed thanks to Troy!!!

[Bedders]

Colin F might be able to help further with this. @ColFord

 

Justin

[SteveBrooking]

Can someone help me here? I typed the message above off board. When I pasted the post onto the board the hyperlinks disappeared. Searching on the lines marked with an asterisk does not work. I do not seem to be able to copy the hyperlinks into the post?

[Troy Smith]

1 hour ago, SteveBrooking said:

Can someone help me here? I typed the message above off board. When I pasted the post onto the board the hyperlinks disappeared. Searching on the lines marked with an asterisk does not work. I do not seem to be able to copy the hyperlinks into the post?

This happens,  if you edit your post, add the hyperlink  again they may show, or  there is a this symbol 🔗 in the top panel   if you click you should get an "add link" drop down box.

HTH 

[alt-92]

 

The IWM site uses ID's for their records, so taking note of the catalogue ID helps in finding them.

For instance:  CH 6710 is here: https://www.iwm.org.uk/collections/item/object/205446887

 

Another option is to take the BBcode lines from the "Use Image" function (if the item license allows) - this includes all information.

 

AIRCRAFT OF THE 7TH PHOTOGRAPHIC GROUP, 8TH UNITED STATES ARMY AIR FORCE BASED AT MOUNT FARM, OXFORDSHIRE 1943-1945.. US Public Domain (COL 466) IWM Non Commercial License

[Troy Smith]

1 hour ago, alt-92 said:

this includes all information.

 

which is great if it's not wrong.

the Mustang is captioned

"North American F-6 Mustang No.FD474 in RAF camouflage and markings parked at Mount Farm."  

 

It maybe at Mount Farm,  but's it's not an F-6

 

 

 

 

 

 

[alt-92]

oh I know, which is why I picked that one  

 but the catalogue and description as used on the IWM site are all included in the links, that is what I meant.

 

[Mustango702]

 

Thank you for the replies. Still looking for that elusive photo

 

Meanwhile I found these two photos of RAF Mustang Mk.IIs:

 

https://www.iwm.org.uk/collections/item/object/205383933

 

The plane in the background being FR931?

 

https://www.iwm.org.uk/collections/item/object/205383932

 

 

 

 

[ColFord]

Nothing much more that I can add to answer the question beyond what Steve has stated above. 

 

The IWM photos Mustango702 linked to are both of Mustangs and pilots of No.II(AC) Squadron RAF taken at RAF Odiham, early to mid-July 1944, and are Mustang II aircraft the Squadron had equipped with at that time.

 

IWM largely uses the original captions with the photos they have posted online.  However they have updated or amended captions in some instances when errors or additional information has been pointed out to them with supporting evidence to help them validate the proposed change in captions.  IWM does have a couple of other photos of RAF Mustang IIs in their online collection, you just need to know the key recognition features of the subject aircraft, timeframe, etc to make the identification.  None of the the photos they have online are of the sought FR919/N.  The source of the original Frog inspiration for their decal choice has long puzzled modellers and researchers whilst the IPMS Stockholm profile is probably derived from the Frog kit information.  Closest photo of a No.II(AC) Squadron Mustang II is that which is supposed to by FR910/W, also taken sometime in late June to July 1944.  That one has been used in a couple of different publications and the c&m scheme the Mustang is carrying in the photo is very similar to that used by Frog for FR919/N.

 

Without access to original pilot's log books of No.II(AC) Squadron RAF pilots who flew Mustangs in the timeframe in question, and with the hope the pilot entered the aircraft ID letter and not just the serial into their log book, little chance of getting many of the serial and id letter ties ups people would be interested in.  The Squadron Operational Records only record aircraft serials, they do not include individual aircraft id letters.   Surviving No.II(AC) Squadron pilot log books from WW2 seem relatively rare. 

 

 

Edited February 12, 2023 by ColFord
Typo