Faulty Compressor?

[PatG]

I've just invested in my first compressor and went for the Badger BA1000 which has good reviews.

 

However I'm not sure if it is faulty and needs to be returned so can anyone comment/advise please on the following concerns?

 

1. The item is quite noisy to my ears and louder than I've heard when demonstrated on various on-line videos so does this reduce when the moving parts bed in?
2. The working psi with a 0.5mm nozzle is around 18 and around 22 with a 0.35mm nozzle so does this sound about right for this type of unit?

 

The vendor is happy for me to return for checking and the item holds its pressure (so is not leaking) but I don't want to return and look stupid if this is how it should perform.

 

Any/all advice very much appreciated as I don't want to be sitting on a £100+ compressor that isn't doing what it should.

 

Pat.

 

 

Edited February 9, 2023 by PatG
extra info

[rossm]

I have the 1100 which looks like the same unit with a tank added on. It does make a noticeable noise but not enough to worry about or need ear defenders, unlike the industrial type unit I had before, now relegated to the garage for inflating tyres!

 

If it's uncomfortably loud there may be a problem but first consider where it is placed. Something resonant like a desk could well amplify the noise, a solid floor will be the best place to stand it.

 

I think working pressure depends on the airbrush and type of paint - I use anything from 15-30 psi - I don't think it tells you much about whether your compressor is faulty.

[PatG]

The noise is not too loud so I can live it as my spraying will be away from the rest of the family.

 

Also the compressor holds its pressure so there are no leaks but I just wondered about the working psi and whether with a .35mm nozzle 22 psi sound about right or should it be higher?

 

Pat.

[Dave Swindell]

2 hours ago, PatG said:

I just wondered about the working psi and whether with a .35mm nozzle 22 psi sound about right or should it be higher?

Does it not have a pressure regulator? The images I've seen of this compressor currently for sale at the likes of Jadlam show a pressure regulator on the outlet. There's a moisture trap on the bottom of it with a clear plastic bowl, a pressure gauge on the side, and a black adjusting knob on top. You usually have to pull the knob up to unlock it, twist to adjust the pressure, and push back down to set the pressure.

 

[PatG]

That's the one, and I've opened the regulator to achieve maximum psi but it only goes up to 22 psi which seems low, although as I've not had a compressor before perhaps this is what is to be expected? I'm just not sure and don't want to return it to the vendor and look stupid if this actually about right.

 

I can't find anything on what the working pressure should be with different sized nozzles so I completely in the dark.

 

Pat.

[Greg B]

The PSI output of the compressor is not what matters. There is no defined recipe for nozzle size versus PSI. The working pressure to successfully airbrush comes from a combination of factors:

 

• Paint thickness
• Amount of coverage you require (Fine line to wide spray)
• Distance working from the model

The nozzle size dictates the min and max of line to spray and a larger nozzle will cope with thicker paint a little bit more.

If you are working at the 22 PSI side of the output you would be looking at large surface areas, spraying a thicker mix and covering very quickly.

 

My compressor output is below that, its stepped down even further at the airbrush by the MAC valve. 

 

Bottom line is to try it.

[PatG]

Greg,

 

You just caught me in time as I was about to rattle off another supplementary so many thanks.

 

My concern is/was that with just opening the air valve in my airbrush (an Iwata Eclipse) with no paint in the cup the best working psi I can get is 22 for a 0.35mm nozzle and 18 for a 0.5 nozzle, which just seems low as I've read that others use a psi of 25-30 on occasions which clearly this new compressor cannot achieve.

 

I understand that generally, ignoring paint viscosity, the larger the nozzle the larger the air leakage is and therefore the lower the psi will be as a result but just concerned that this brand new compressor may not be delivering the raw air pressure to start with and could be faulty. Or, quite possibly, this is the best this particular unit can deliver and others use more powerful and expensive units?

 

I'm just not sure so may send it back to the vendor for them to check although when I raised my concern with them they had no idea what I was talking about so they are not exactly experts in this field by all accounts, they just stack them high and sell them not that cheaply.

 

Thanks again for getting back to me.

 

Pat.

 

 

[Dave Swindell]

9 hours ago, Greg B said:

The PSI output of the compressor is not what matters.

That's correct to a large extent for actual use of the airbrush, Greg, but it's not for diagnosing a faulty compressor.

 

@PatG

From the specs here, your compressor is set up to auto start if the outlet pressure drops below 43psi and auto stop when it reaches 57psi, note this pressure is measured before the regulator, and the pressure gauge on the regulator is after the regulator, so may not read the same.

To test if the compressor can reach the design cutout pressure, connect the airbrush and leave the nozzle closed. Switch the compressor on, pull the regulator knob up and slowly turn it clockwise (like turning a tap OFF), the pressure should increase. Continue turning and the pressure should increase. The compressor will probably cut in and out briefly whilst you do this, but you should reach a point where the compressor has stopped and the pressure no longer increases as you turn the knob, the gauge should read around 57psi (may be a bit higher or lower depending on the accuracy of the gauge and pressure switch)

If you can't get up to this pressure, and there's no air leaking away anywhere, there's something wrong with the compressor, pressure switch, regulator or the gauge.

If you have got up to around 57psi it should hold that pressure for a good few minutes if there's no leaks.

Gently pull your airbrush trigger back a little bit whilst watching the pressure gauge and slowly let the pressure drop, you should now see the compressor start at around 43psi (again might be a bit higher or lower, it doesn't need to be precisely this figure, just in that ballpark.

If this works OK then the pressure switch is functioning correctly and the compressor is capable of delivering the needed pressure at no/low flow rates.

 

You don't say which model of Iwata Eclipse you have, but this manual recomends an Iwata Smart Jet Compressor to operate the Eclipse at 20-25psi.  This compressor has an open flow of 12 litres per minute, your compressor is quoted as delivering 20-23 lpm, nearly twice as much, so should easily cope with maintaining 20-25psi, and should be able to reach 30-35psi in use, I would have thought.

To see what pressure your compressor/airbrush combination can maintain, pull up the knob on the regulator and turn it anticlockwise (like turning a tap ON) as far as it will go, this will give lowest pressure. Pull the airbrush trigger back fully and turn the compressor on. Slowly turn the regulator knob clockwise to increase the pressure whilst keeping the trigger pulled back. The compressor may cut in and out as you're doing this, but don't worry about that as long as the pressure increases as you turn the knob. One of 3 things will happen:-

1) You will be able to increase the pressure to around 57psi and the pressure switch will stop the compressor - this indicates both compressor and regulator have the capacity to operate the airbrush at max pressure and full flow.

2) You will be able to increase the pressure to **psi, but turning the regulator knob further doesn't increase the pressure, and the compressor runs continuously - this indicates that the compressor is at max flow and hasn't the capacity to increase the pressure further.

3) You have turned the regulator knob as far as it will go clockwise, the pressure gauge hasn't reached cutout pressure but the compressor is cutting in and out - this indicates that the regulator is at max flow and hasn't the capacity to let more air past to increase the pressure at the airbrush.

 

If you still can't achieve 18-22psi doing either of the above tests I'd suggest contacting the vendor and explaining the issues, see what they suggest.

Whilst this sort of pressure may be adequate for your needs as @Greg B suggests, it indicates to me that all might not be well with the setup, it won't get better by itself, and would best be dealt with now whilst it's still under warranty.

[colin]

Have you unlocked the pressure regulator lock, the red dial under the adjustment knob so you can adjust the pressure

As per Dave S post above

[PatG]

Colin & Dave,

 

Thank you for your replies and help.

 

Colin - I've unlocked the regulator block so I'm able to adjust the psi, and my airbrush is an Iwata Eclipse HP-CS if that makes sense.

 

Dave - I will now go through the tests you recommend as they are very thorough and just what I was looking for to try and determine if it is working as it should.

 

Once I've done the tests I'll report back but at the moment when 'working' (so when depressing the trigger and pulling it back) it doesn't get anywhere near the 30-35 psi level, the maximum being 22psi with the 0.35mm nozzle which seems odd/low given the supposed output of the compressor of around 20-23 lpm.

 

Thanks again.

Pat.

[PatG]

Dave,

 

Just done the tests and stage 1 of testing just the compressor shows that the gauge gets up to around 57psi and then cuts back in at around 43psi so this part seems to be fine, with 57 psi being held for a couple of minutes before reducing. So far so good!

 

The issue is when the airbrush is connected as per your second possible scenario where turning the knob no longer increases the psi and the compressor is running continuously, with the maximum psi achievable being 22 with the 0.35mm nozzle.

 

Given that the capacity of the compressor is well above that recommended by Iwata at 20-23 lpm does this mean the compressor is faulty or is there any other issue causing the pressure to be so relatively low? I've checked for leaks and none are apparent from the compressor and hoses so I don't think leakage here is the problem.

 

Could it possibly be a faulty seal in the airbrush?

 

Thanks

Pat.

Edited February 12, 2023 by PatG
extra info

[Dave Swindell]

56 minutes ago, PatG said:

Given that the capacity of the compressor is well above that recommended by Iwata at 20-23 lpm does this mean the compressor is faulty or is there any other issue causing the pressure to be so relatively low? I've checked for leaks and none are apparent from the compressor and hoses so I don't think leakage here is the problem.

Hi Pat

As the compressor appears to have passed test 1 with flying colours it would appear that it is fine compressing the air so the discharge valve and seals in the compressor appear to be working OK.

You seem fairly sure there's no unwanted leakage from the compressor and airbrush so a large leak on the discharge side sounds unlikely.

The next most obvious thing I can think of that will restrict the air flow and prevent you getting full pressure whilst in normal use but enable you to get up to full pressure when the airbrush trigger is closed would be a partial blockage on the suction side of the compressor, such as a piece of polystyrene packaging or such like being wedged in there, or the suction valve isn't opening propery to admit the full flow of air.

I'm not sure exactly where this compressor takes it;s suction, but it's usually through the crankcase on these types of compressor, with the suction valve itself in the top of the piston.

If you can't see any obvious obstruction on the outside of the compressor, I'd suggest the best way forward now would be to contact your vendor tomorrow and explain your problem so you don't invalidate your warranty.

 

[PatG]

Dave,

 

Thank you for getting back to me.

 

I've checked all the externals of the compressor and there is nothing obvious which could be causing a blockage to reduce the working air pressure. However a good friend of mine also has a BA1000 and I actually bought this on their recommendation. However the one they have, which is 3-4 years old, runs quite a lot quieter than this new unit so perhaps this is also indicative of a fault in the unit itself?

 

I'll now go back to the vendor and see what they say but having done the tests I suspect my only course of action will be to return it for a refund and re-think what compressor I should now go for in a similar price range.

 

Many thanks

 

Pat.

[Dave Swindell]

11 hours ago, PatG said:

However the one they have, which is 3-4 years old, runs quite a lot quieter than this new unit so perhaps this is also indicative of a fault in the unit itself?

Yes, that's a distinct possibility.

Hope you can sort this with the vendor.

[little-cars]

My  usual advice is if it's not performing as you would expect it to, contact the supplier & see what they say. 

 

I suspect it's made in China & quality doesn't appear to be as good as units like the Taiwanese  Sparmax units.

One other thing to check is the warranty, would expect it to be 2 years.

 

 

[PatG]

Dave,

 

So glad I've joined the forum as otherwise I'd have been stuck with a dodgy compressor and not been able to access your expertise and advice.

 

Been in touch with the E-Bay vendor and they have accepted it back with a full refund so fair play to them.

 

I've also discovered that Jadlam are selling the same model for £20 less than I paid so may go for it again as the pricier BA1100 is just the same as the BA1000 but with a reserve tank which I don't need given that I only make perhaps 2-3 models a year and any spraying session is only around 2-3 minutes. As such investing in a Sparmax 610 or 620 at £300+ is a bit over the top even if they are of much greater quality and reliability.

 

Many years ago in the 80's in my youth I did own a Sil Air compressor which apparently was the bee's knees at the time but I got rid as I had a badger airbrush which totally confused me and which I never ended up using so also sold on along with the compressor. Perhaps with hind sight not the best decision but it did require oil to be added from memory so was prone to seizing up if not maintained correctly.

 

Thanks again.

 

Pat.

[Dave Swindell]

14 hours ago, PatG said:

Been in touch with the E-Bay vendor and they have accepted it back with a full refund so fair play to them.

Hi Pat,

Glad you're sorted with a refund, hope you have better luck second time round.