Defiant armour

[Peter Roberts]

Does anyone have any information on what armour was installed in the Boulton Paul Defiant prior to the Battle of Britain, and when?

 

Or any good references to consult? The ‘Defiant File’ appears mute on the subject, unless I have missed something (which isn’t out of the question!  )

Edited February 9, 2023 by Peter Roberts

[derekS]

Hi, 

  The best currently available ref for the Defiant seems to be Valiant 

"Airframe Detail" No5

  As to armour,from the photo`s,wich come from the Pilots Notes

it seems an armoured bulkhead was fitted behind the pilot from 

the outset.

 

HTH

 

Derek S

[AndyL]

Boulton Paul gave their first recommendations for armoured protection on 9th December 1938, which included an armoured windscreen, ( to be made by Triplex ), a 10 s.w.g decking over the oil tank that extended to the base of the windscreen, and head armour for the pilot. All up weight of 48 1/2 lbs. The air gunner was given a face plate weighing 6 lbs.

 

Ten days later there was a 'ad-hoc' meeting of the armour committee at Boulton Paul, which decided to drop the armoured windscreen due to the way the Defiant would engage enemy bombers - it would not be involved in DFS/NA ( direct frontal shooting/near astern ). The decking over the oil tank was also dropped, however it was agreed that 4 mm non magnetic armour plate would be fitted behind the pilot, covering the entire bulkhead down to the decking. Size was about 3 1/2 square foot. BP began re-designing a strengthened bulkhead and made up a mild steel template. Head armour was also included, with it also being 4 mm thick. This was to be incorporated into the first 87 airframes.

The first turret face plate was tested on a turret in January, firing into the stop butts at Orfordness, and experienced no adverse effect on the turret. Armour thickness was 9 mm. It eventually became fitted to the sighting bar by rubber mounts.

 

HTH

Andy

 

[Peter Roberts]

5 hours ago, AndyL said:

Boulton Paul gave their first recommendations for armoured protection on 9th December 1938, which included an armoured windscreen, ( to be made by Triplex ), a 10 s.w.g decking over the oil tank that extended to the base of the windscreen, and head armour for the pilot. All up weight of 48 1/2 lbs. The air gunner was given a face plate weighing 6 lbs.

 

Ten days later there was a 'ad-hoc' meeting of the armour committee at Boulton Paul, which decided to drop the armoured windscreen due to the way the Defiant would engage enemy bombers - it would not be involved in DFS/NA ( direct frontal shooting/near astern ). The decking over the oil tank was also dropped, however it was agreed that 4 mm non magnetic armour plate would be fitted behind the pilot, covering the entire bulkhead down to the decking. Size was about 3 1/2 square foot. BP began re-designing a strengthened bulkhead and made up a mild steel template. Head armour was also included, with it also being 4 mm thick. This was to be incorporated into the first 87 airframes.

The first turret face plate was tested on a turret in January, firing into the stop butts at Orfordness, and experienced no adverse effect on the turret. Armour thickness was 9 mm. It eventually became fitted to the sighting bar by rubber mounts.

 

HTH

Andy

 

 

Thank you very much Andy, that is brilliant. I am amazed that the pilot effectively had no forward protection, and no armoured windscreen. Not a lot for the gunner either by the sound of it. Unlike the Hurricane and the Spitfire, it looks like the Defiant Mk I didn’t get much altered up to and including the Battle of Britain, aside from constant speed props and overcoming a few mechanical issues.

 

I believe you are/were working on a Defiant book Andy - did that get done/published? 

[PatG]

I'm currently building the Airfix 72nd scale Defiant and can concur that the Valiant book is an excellent reference source, although I know its author, R.A Franks, is often maligned for some of his errors.

 

All the pics I have show a bulkhead at frame 6 immediately behind the pilot's seat but I can't say for sure if it was armoured or not, but my best guess is that it was.

 

I think the Defiant went through fewer mods than the Spit and Hurricane simply because of its configuration and the fact that it was very soon realised that it had a limited future in fighter versus fighter combat operations!

 

Pat.

[AndyL]

On 2/9/2023 at 8:01 PM, Peter Roberts said:

 

Thank you very much Andy, that is brilliant. I am amazed that the pilot effectively had no forward protection, and no armoured windscreen. Not a lot for the gunner either by the sound of it. Unlike the Hurricane and the Spitfire, it looks like the Defiant Mk I didn’t get much altered up to and including the Battle of Britain, aside from constant speed props and overcoming a few mechanical issues.

 

I believe you are/were working on a Defiant book Andy - did that get done/published? 

 

Hi Peter,

 

Sadly I had a hard drive failure on my laptop last year and lost 98% of the data. The other 2% was unreadable, so a total write off. Luckily I had material backed up on an external hard drive, and some rough draft chapters, so it's been a rebuilding project, so I'm nearly at the point at where I was when the HD self destructed. On the plus side I have had material come through which would have missed the final cut. Also, I have had the input from 73 families of Defiant aircrew, which has been a great help. And now I have plenty of time to get the job done as I lost my job last week, so until I find somebody stupid enough to employ me, I'll be writing.

Regards

Andy

[Peter Roberts]

Good grief Andy! I am so sorry to hear of your trials, what a nightmare but some good upsides as you say. My best wishes to you as you reconstruct the book - one definitely to look forward to - and hopefully some employment soon to help pay for things.

 

I don’t think they’d be stupid to employ you - that is a great effort you’re under talking there.

Edited February 13, 2023 by Peter Roberts