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1/48 - Consolidated B-24 Liberator by HobbyBoss - B-24J released - B-24D in August 2024


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That would be strange I'd say... I got the general impression that they corrected the Davis wing profile and left everything else as it is on the 1/32 kit, more or less. 

 

But let's wait until the definitive sprue photos appear.

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1 hour ago, Rakovica said:

I got the general impression that they corrected the Davis wing profile and left everything else as it is on the 1/32 kit, more or less. 

The same impression.

 

I'll let you buy spare parts for the monogram

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A lot of ‘conclusions’ have been drawn from a series of pictures rather than plastic. With lens distortion it’s impossible to see how good/bad it really is. 
 

Remember the howling and wailing about the supposed wrong dihedral on the new Revell 1/32 Hurricane a while back? Based purely on some photos distorted by a camera..? A lot of people had to eat a lot of humble pie when they actually had the kit in their hands. Let’s wait and see what it’s like when we’re actually holding it - and draw conclusions then. 
 

Whilst I fully respect one’s opinion and striving for accuracy, regardless of the ‘inaccuracies’ it’s bound to be a leap ahead of the venerable Monogram kit - a kit which those who know the B-24 well claim is not actually that accurate - so I’m going to buy it and enjoy making a 21st Century kit that is long overdue in this scale. My Monogram B-24J can be sacrificed for a Privateer conversion…
 

Merry Xmas all!

Tom

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On 21/12/2023 at 10:13, Bozothenutter said:

From what I've read on Hyper....HB managed to make a whole new set of errors compared to the Trumpy kit....🤔

From what I've read on there, all Phantoms apart from Tamiya's are hopelessly wrong, all Eduard kits are terrible, Airfix are just Matchbox with better box art, Monogram can never be surpassed and no Hobby Boss or Trumpeter kit looks anything like the real thing. 

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5 minutes ago, Phoenix44 said:

From what I've read on there, all Phantoms apart from Tamiya's are hopelessly wrong, all Eduard kits are terrible, Airfix are just Matchbox with better box art, Monogram can never be surpassed and no Hobby Boss or Trumpeter kit looks anything like the real thing. 

C'mon let's not start slagging off other modelling forums. :fraidnot:

 

There are always people that will find a fault with any model, no matter who tooled it.  It's just how they are, and they're probably active on many, many forums, spreading their idea of truth as a service to their egos.  For a long time, people used to say that monogram B-24J moulds had been lost to Davey Jones' locker when they were on a ship that sank.  A couple of years later and it was repopped.  I don't quite understand how these type of rumours happen, or people's motivation for creating them.  At the most charitable, it could be a case of Chinese Whispers, the game not the people of course.

 

People like to pontificate.  Sensible people take it on board and form their own conclusions.  Some of these naysayers could even be in the employ of another modelling company, they work so hard at ruining the appetite for a new model, it's almost fetish-like.  I remember one guy on here was in every thread about the Eduard Bf.109G, which had some size issues, telling us all that the Zvezda kit would be the definitive in 1:48, before the kit had even reached the market.  When it got there it had its own problems, and in the meantime Eduard had re-tooled their Gustave, which to me speaks volumes about a company's interest in accuracy.  We all make mistakes - taking them on board and doing something about them is laudable.

 

Anyway - back to B-24s.  I'll be looking at one as soon as I can, and if it's a good kit, I'll be getting a J and a D when I can :)

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1 hour ago, Mike said:

and in the meantime Eduard had re-tooled their Gustave

And he was still left with noticeable problems in geometry.

 

1 hour ago, Mike said:

We all make mistakes - taking them on board and doing something about them is laudable.

Trump's model without a mountain of mistakes is an incredibly rare wonder

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2 hours ago, Mike said:

For a long time, people used to say that monogram B-24J moulds had been lost to Davey Jones' locker when they were on a ship that sank.  A couple of years later and it was repopped. 

IIRC it was the moulds had been altered to make the D nose, which was more credible.      But forum rumours get bounced around...  I can regale you with 1/48th Spitfire kit myths for example..

 

2 hours ago, Mike said:

We all make mistakes - taking them on board and doing something about them is laudable.

That  HB have fixed the wing profile of the 32nd kit is of note.     

On the nay sayer brigade, what I like is a researched description of faults, and ideally a fix,  with illustrations if possible.  Sometimes ' a fix' can be as simple as a reducing a glaring error , say a wrong canopy or prop spinner, even if it misses a deep  hack for a shape problem only the truly obsessed would see or care about.

 

I've not seen a proper run down problems in the Mono B-24, apart from the those of 'Gen.Tlavok' (last incarnation on Hypercale, WrathofAtlantis on here, some points and writing style)  AKA Gaston Marty,  who has written about faults of the kits and his 'fixes', but no pics of said work, but does rave on about the Hasegawa 72nd kits.

Occasionally he make a valid point, but has "no middle gears"  on descriptions which tends lose these in a morass of blurry photos and red lines.

 

AFAIK the Mono kit dates to the era that the late Bill Koster worked for Monogram,  and the overall opinion on those mid 70's bomber kits i they were decent.  

But they were tooled 45 years ago....  

Reviews even then  noted the seam split on the clear parts of the Mono turrets!      Positive, some new AM bits for the HB kit maybe able able to add some sparkle to the Mono kit.

Confession -  I have had the Mon B-24 stashed since 1981,  even then the turrets grated..  I have stashed away various bits for it since, luckily  including the Koster turrets set, though  a more rational parts says 'flog it!"   as it's huge....

 

52 minutes ago, Exam89 said:

Trump's model without a mountain of mistakes is an incredibly rare wonder

They have  a number of kits (well, them and Hobby Boss, who are all part of the same firm)  that seem to be decent, it depends on their researchers,  or lack of.

AFAIK the  KV tank families by them are decent, as are the HB Me262 and Fw190D.  

Anyway, no-one is making you buy them,  it is a shame when they  majorly mess up an esoteric British subject.   

There is a proportion on a vocal US based modellers who tend to call them as "chi-com crap"   

As with anything, do your own research,  there are people on forums who know their stuff, and people who don't...

2 hours ago, Mike said:

I don't quite understand how these type of rumours happen, or people's motivation for creating them.

Remarkable lack of insight from someone who  has been herding model forums cats since 2007...  I suspect you could write in depth psychological papers on our obsessions!

This was helpfully posted and covers a great range of forum life.

nerd-venn-diagram.jpg

 

 

From the above. The problem, as is so much of life.  Dorks.

 

Thanks for putting up with us all! 

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22 hours ago, Mike said:

C'mon let's not start slagging off other modelling forums. :fraidnot:

 

There are always people that will find a fault with any model, no matter who tooled it.  It's just how they are, and they're probably active on many, many forums, spreading their idea of truth as a service to their egos.  For a long time, people used to say that monogram B-24J moulds had been lost to Davey Jones' locker when they were on a ship that sank.  A couple of years later and it was repopped.  I don't quite understand how these type of rumours happen, or people's motivation for creating them.  At the most charitable, it could be a case of Chinese Whispers, the game not the people of course.

 

People like to pontificate.  Sensible people take it on board and form their own conclusions.  Some of these naysayers could even be in the employ of another modelling company, they work so hard at ruining the appetite for a new model, it's almost fetish-like.  I remember one guy on here was in every thread about the Eduard Bf.109G, which had some size issues, telling us all that the Zvezda kit would be the definitive in 1:48, before the kit had even reached the market.  When it got there it had its own problems, and in the meantime Eduard had re-tooled their Gustave, which to me speaks volumes about a company's interest in accuracy.  We all make mistakes - taking them on board and doing something about them is laudable.

 

Anyway - back to B-24s.  I'll be looking at one as soon as I can, and if it's a good kit, I'll be getting a J and a D when I can :)

Not slagging off the forum, just a joke to say don't believe everything you read on there (or here) about how bad kits are. 

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23 hours ago, Troy Smith said:

Remarkable lack of insight from someone who  has been herding model forums cats since 2007

I deal with 'em, but I don't pretend to understand the worst ones though, as I don't have a doctorate in psychology ;) Some of them I think do it for a sense of power because they have none in the real world.  That was certainly the case with the first troll I had to deal with many years back on my mountain-biking forum.

 

23 hours ago, Troy Smith said:

From the above. The problem, as is so much of life.  Dorks.

That's a bit too "nice" a word for the worst of 'em.  They're pure dagnasty evil :poop:

 

Anyway, back to B-24s.  I have a box with all the aftermarket I could find for it, including the Koster turret and -J conversion set.  It was damn good stuff for its era. :yes:

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On 12/23/2023 at 5:30 PM, Troy Smith said:

They have  a number of kits (well, them and Hobby Boss, who are all part of the same firm)  that seem to be decent, it depends on their researchers,  or lack of.

I did not say that there are no such things)

On 12/23/2023 at 5:30 PM, Troy Smith said:

Anyway, no-one is making you buy them,  it is a shame when they  majorly mess up an esoteric British subject.   

I've already pre-ordered it

 

But this does not make it any less problematic. I would prefer a Liberator from HK, but after trumpoboss, I have no hopes for such a model. Too often, with their crooked crafts, they block the way to the market for normal models

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On 25/12/2023 at 20:57, Exam89 said:

I did not say that there are no such things)

I've already pre-ordered it

 

But this does not make it any less problematic. I would prefer a Liberator from HK, but after trumpoboss, I have no hopes for such a model. Too often, with their crooked crafts, they block the way to the market for normal models

 

  This is indeed exactly what tolerance for garbage kits does. To keep buying crap that is presumed tolerable blocks the market for those who want an actual approximation of reality, instead of a caricature... And sorry, but most 1/48 WWII aircraft kits from before 2010 fall in the "caricature" category (one only has to look at wing tips thicknesses...), including many Tamiyas from before that date. Rivet counters complaining online actually improved the hobby, as I think the 2010 quality jump demonstrates. Unfortunately, they don't appear to have had as much sway over Asian makers.

 

  In general, Asian kits are now lagging behind Eastern European kits in avoiding major outline errors. The dreadful HK kits, European-researched B-25s excepted, are a good example of this: The contrast of other similar HK kits (and their absurd errors) with that one subject, the B-25, known to have used a different methodology, illustrates perfectly the nature of the problem: There is serious research, or you can just pull some General Arrangement drawings from the 1940s... Better yet, you can just make up your own.

 

  Claims that errors in basic outline are within reach are beyond optimistic. The reality is such ambitious corrections hardly ever cross the finish line. Just to take one well-known ship error as an example: The casemates edges of the Fujimi 1/350 Kongo are wrongly slanted. This is very obvious, and has been known since the kit's release over 15 years ago. Despite that being a very modest and easy fix (compared to most aircraft issues) I have never seen a corrected model in nearly a hundred expertly-finished builds.

 

  The big stumbling block is not the corrective work, but what happens when you try to put paint on it. To say "skill" can easily overcome outline issues is to not understand the current more demanding finish levels that have become the standard (prompted by the crisper close ups of digital cameras, if nothing else). Sheperd Paine's legendary diorama leaflets are now barely monthly club meet level... The grip of flawless results under close up scrutiny is such, aircraft builders will hardly even attempt to kit bash better parts from other same-type kits, let alone changing the basic shapes...

 

  Before I will believe in the fantasy of correcting shapes, try and show me that single type and single variant, brand to brand aircraft kit-bashing is actually going on... Armor builders have been doing this for decades, picking the best bits of multiple makers not for variant changes, but for quality alone... Aircraft builders are still way too much under the sway of "It looks like" to even think that way.

 

  Accepting any garbage thrown our way will not help us catch up to the Armour guys.

 

  

 

  

 

  

 

  

Edited by WrathofAtlantis
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1 hour ago, WrathofAtlantis said:

 

  This is indeed exactly what tolerance for garbage kits does. To keep buying crap that is presumed tolerable blocks the market for those who want an actual approximation of reality, instead of a caricature... And sorry, but most 1/48 WWII aircraft kits from before 2010 fall in the "caricature" category (one only has to look at wing tips thicknesses...), including many Tamiyas from before that date. Rivet counters complaining online actually improved the hobby, as I think the 2010 quality jump demonstrates. Unfortunately, they don't appear to have had as much sway over Asian makers.

 

  In general, Asian kits are now lagging behind Eastern European kits in avoiding major outline errors. The dreadful HK kits, European-researched B-25s excepted, are a good example of this: The contrast of other similar HK kits (and their absurd errors) with that one subject, the B-25, known to have used a different methodology, illustrates perfectly the nature of the problem: There is serious research, or you can just pull some General Arrangement drawings from the 1940s... Better yet, you can just make up your own.

 

  Claims that errors in basic outline are within reach are beyond optimistic. The reality is such ambitious corrections hardly ever cross the finish line. Just to take one well-known ship error as an example: The casemates edges of the Fujimi 1/350 Kongo are wrongly slanted. This is very obvious, and has been known since the kit's release over 15 years ago. Despite that being a very modest and easy fix (compared to most aircraft issues) I have never seen a corrected model in nearly a hundred expertly-finished builds.

 

  The big stumbling block is not the corrective work, but what happens when you try to put paint on it. To say "skill" can easily overcome outline issues is to not understand the current more demanding finish levels that have become the standard (prompted by the crisper close ups of digital cameras, if nothing else). Sheperd Paine's legendary diorama leaflets are now barely monthly club meet level... The grip of flawless results under close ups is such, aircraft builders will hardly even attempt to kit bash better parts from other same-type kits, let alone changing the basic shapes...

 

  Before I will believe in the fantasy of correcting shapes, try and show me that some single type and single variant, brand to brand aircraft kit-bashing is actually going on... Armor kits have been doing this for decades, picking the best bits of multiple makers not for variant changes, but for quality alone... Aircraft builders are still way too much under the sway of "It looks like" to even think that way.

 

  Accepting any garbage thrown our way will not help us catch up to the Armour guys.

 

  

 

  

 

  

 

  

I am unconvinced any of this is true. I see no evidence that a substantial proportion of the market, perhaps the majority, gives two hoots about "accuracy" in the terms discussed here. These forums have pretty low numbers on them compared with typical sales of mainstream models. Nor do I see any evidence of so-called "blocking" by models of lower accuracy. The market is not static, people constantly leave (not always willingly...) and others join. People buy more than one company's kit of an aircraft, people build stashes, or don't  - I want to one day build a series of Fw.190s but don't own a single one now. When I'm ready, I'll buy the best one available. Thus, demand is not immediately met when a kit is released. As for "crisper close-ups", how many of those who build models worry about that? Nor did accuracy become an issue only after 2010. The major advance the Internet has brought is the ability of small firms to sell both domestically and internationally at very low cost through multiple channels. Those small firms are often started by enthusiasts who care about accuracy. But to say that Airfix didn't care about accuracy with say its Spitfire Mk.22/24 released in 1997 (!) is absurd. 

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1 hour ago, Phoenix44 said:

I am unconvinced any of this is true. I see no evidence that a substantial proportion of the market, perhaps the majority, gives two hoots about "accuracy" in the terms discussed here. These forums have pretty low numbers on them compared with typical sales of mainstream models. Nor do I see any evidence of so-called "blocking" by models of lower accuracy. The market is not static, people constantly leave (not always willingly...) and others join. People buy more than one company's kit of an aircraft, people build stashes, or don't  - I want to one day build a series of Fw.190s but don't own a single one now. When I'm ready, I'll buy the best one available. Thus, demand is not immediately met when a kit is released. As for "crisper close-ups", how many of those who build models worry about that? Nor did accuracy become an issue only after 2010. The major advance the Internet has brought is the ability of small firms to sell both domestically and internationally at very low cost through multiple channels. Those small firms are often started by enthusiasts who care about accuracy. But to say that Airfix didn't care about accuracy with say its Spitfire Mk.22/24 released in 1997 (!) is absurd. 

 

  But those 1997 Airfix Spitfire kits are still poor, too shallow in profile, with poor canopy shapes, and probably don't even depict, as far as I know, the correct wing tip leading edge washout. A now 11 years old Eduard Mk IX will just blow them away. Even the more recent Airfix kits, like the Mark XIV/XVIIIs, are hardly comparable to the Eduards (I absolutely had to put Eduard Mk XVI clear parts on my build), and this even includes the recent Anson, unfortunately... I'm pretty sure the 2012 Eduard Spitfire IX was the first Spitfire to attempt to depict the wing tip washout in 1/48. Virtually no 1/48 kit prior to that depicted the leading edge washout (except Tamiya's lackluster 2003 P-47, now thankfully obsolete, and their fairly good 2008 A6M5). The leading edge washout was almost entirely the preserve of 1/32 scale kits until that point.

 

  Just because the market in the West does not care (a point on which I only somewhat agree), because quite frankly the West is generally spiralling down, does not mean there are not other markets, closer to the manufacturers, where quality actually matters, and where the forums have an influence. There are huge Czech modelling forums where Eduard themselves routinely post, and you can be sure this has an influence on them. I can tell you here in Eastern Europe, unlike the West, the Hobby Shops are not disappearing, and they also do not carry many kits older than 2000, unlike Canadian shops that were still full of 1960-70-80s garbage, right up to the point they almost all closed their doors. 

 

  The reason Hobby Boss has gotten a lot worse, after starting out with a few good kits in 2007 (the same exact progression as Trumpeter did 7 years before), is because they are now producing less for the West and more for an increasingly affluent local market, which is unsophisticated and can't tell the difference. The Japanese market is on another level entirely, and the kits correspond to that higher level, although that market does seem to be shrinking. The best manufacturers are now in Eastern Europe, simply because the market level there is the highest. All I am saying is save your money and efforts for the upcoming ICM B-26B, rather than consider that Hobby Boss is catering to you. 

 

  Yes makers will absolutely consider other releases and will change their choices accordingly. This is so painfully obvious it hardly needs elaborating: Eduard never released an A6M5 because Tamiya already has a recent one that is competitive. Dora Wings released Razorback P-47s because Mini Art was doing the Bubbletops. Zvezda has yet to release a late Il-2M3, probably because Tamiya already has their own 2012 effort. Airfix recently did a Mk XIVe and a Mk XVIII Griffon Spit, because Eduard had all the earlier Spitfires variants covered. Wouldn't you know it, after the Airfix Mk XIV came out, Eduard stopped their Spitfire range and never released a Griffon Spit... 

 

   Occasionally you will get 3 P-51Ds in quick succession, but this is more the exception than the rule. The Hobby Boss B-24J is likely a disaster for anyone who hoped to have an accurate 1/48 B-24 within at least the next 10 years, if not much more given the kit size. Maybe the technology will get so much better that subjects will come out faster, but until we know this for a fact, that is still the likely outcome.

 

  

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Ah here, can you take your philosophies, theories, non-sequiturs and general complaining somewhere else?

Its paragraph and paragraph of nonsense and not on topic.

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  • Homebee changed the title to 1/48 - Consolidated B-24J & D Liberator by HobbyBoss - B-24J released - B-24D in 2024-2025

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