1/48 Hasegawa F4U-4B kitbash

[Mycapt65]

 

 

Ok I'm tired of waiting for someone to come up with a nice dash 4 Corsair. And no the Hobbyboss isn't a nice dash 4. I'm starting with sadly the best looking (IMO) dash 4. The Hasegawa rebox of the ancient Mania kit. I was initially was going to build OOB except for the True Details cockpit set. Then I bought a set of Minicraft wings from their clone kit to gain scribed lines and flaps that weren't split with a difficult seam to fix. 

 

 

Then I remembered, hey I can poach some parts from a Hasegawa F4U-5N kit. My initial inclination was to use the the engine, wing pylons and some other details. Then I started to think I can have dropped flaps and better details if I can add the appropriate fabric panels.

 

 

The dash 5 wings were too long in front and short in the rear. Not nearly the drop fit of the Minicraft wings. After eyeballing it a while I decided to try adding the dash -5 wings. First I had to find a piece of plastic to fill the giant open space between the rear edge of the lower wing and fuselage. I found a P-47 engine cowling with close contours in the spares box. Cut that in half and dry fit it approximately to the fuselage. Next was to cut off the F4U-4B kit cowling and check the fit of the wing again before I cut back the lower fuselage extension. It's bad enough that I might have ruined one kit. I didn't want to cut up the wing and ruin a second kit if I didn't have to.

 

 

 

 

So I'm at the point of no return. Normally I have a hard time finishing simple kits (like a Tamiya P-51B 🙄) without a lot of drama, so this should be interesting. Stay tuned and wish me luck.

 

Cheers 

Ron 

Edited February 3, 2023 by Mycapt65

[billn53]

Stand back, there’s some serious modeling going on here!

[Mycapt65]

I added aluminum tubing to maintain the dihedral and rigidity before I cut back the front section of the fuselage underside on the wing. I don't mess around when it comes to strength and geometry.

 

Test fitting the -5 engine in the -4B looks good in all aspects. There may be minor visible differences between the two, but this looks light years better than the original kit engine.

 

 

 

 

So far so good.

[Thom216]

So far, so niiiiiice! Looking like a great start.

[Troy Smith]

8 hours ago, Mycapt65 said:

And no the Hobbyboss isn't a nice dash 4. I'm starting with sadly the best looking (IMO) dash 4. The Hasegawa rebox of the ancient Mania kit.

It's a complex subject.  Ages ago I got a cheap Academy -4,  to see what could be done.  The main fault seemed to be the too wide upper fuselage spine.  That wasn't to hard to fix, but when I did comparisons with a Tamiya -1, I found the entire fuselage was too deep, by about 2mm, and kinda square at the base, the Corsair is a like thin triangle with a round base.  

 

Now at this point because it was obvious the fuselage had a load of errors,  and EVERYONE says the old Hase/Mania is basically sound, I got one. 

What I found is this.Academy copied the old Hase kit, but added the upper spine error. So the Hase has the same too deep/too square fuselage, and it is noticeable once you know, as the wing is 2mm too low.  OK here's the relevant pic, the black area is to be removed  though  this needs to also be taken out of the cowl, then the fuselage scoring and bending into the correct shape.

 

You can just see the stress lines in the mid fuselage from the internal scoring  and bending.

 

Given the Academy is engraved rather than raised line, it has its uses  as apart from the spine problem, it the same as the Hase/Mania, otherwise they are the same.  

If you have a Tamiya -1 , you will soon see what I mean. Try fitting the seat bulkhead inside the Hase fuselage.

The solution is to take a 2 mm section out and reshape.

In the end I realised it needs to be trimmed out of the cowl as well.

This was an on/off project, and has been in the off pile for quite a while....

 

The Hobby Boss fuselage is better on this, but has It own faults.

 

My suggestion for an accurate-4 by cross kitting would be an Academy nose (cut down) and wing added to a Tamiya -1.  You still need an engine  the 4 blade prop can be got from a Tamiya P-47, they all come with multiple props.  The early -4 use the same canopy as the F4U-1D,  later have the flat screen. 

If you want a folded wing, you can use the Tamiya parts.

If you really like surgery you can fix the Academy kit.....

I eventually picked up the CMK -4 conversion  and have pair of Tamiya -1 kits I got cheap off a chap on here as some clown had tried to fit resin wheel wells, and had wrecked one centre section and mangled the other.....

 

But, yes  it's amazing that there is not a decent -4 in the scale, or any scale I believe.

 

Back to your kit bash,  since you are chopping up the Hase -5 kit, you may want to see if you can use more of the fuselage and add the Mania nose to it?  The -5 has a raised section behind the canopy that would need adjusting.  

 

Anyway, hope of interest/use,  always good to see someone  try to fix the problem rather than just moan about it! 

Cheers 

T

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Mycapt65]

5 hours ago, Troy Smith said:

It's a complex subject.  Ages ago I got a cheap Academy -4,  to see what could be done.  The main fault seemed to be the too wide upper fuselage spine.  That wasn't to hard to fix, but when I did comparisons with a Tamiya -1, I found the entire fuselage was too deep, by about 2mm, and kinda square at the base, the Corsair is a like thin triangle with a round base.  

 

Now at this point because it was obvious the fuselage had a load of errors,  and EVERYONE says the old Hase/Mania is basically sound, I got one. 

What I found is this.Academy copied the old Hase kit, but added the upper spine error. So the Hase has the same too deep/too square fuselage, and it is noticeable once you know, as the wing is 2mm too low.  OK here's the relevant pic, the black area is to be removed  though  this needs to also be taken out of the cowl, then the fuselage scoring and bending into the correct shape.

 

You can just see the stress lines in the mid fuselage from the internal scoring  and bending.

 

Given the Academy is engraved rather than raised line, it has its uses  as apart from the spine problem, it the same as the Hase/Mania, otherwise they are the same.  

If you have a Tamiya -1 , you will soon see what I mean. Try fitting the seat bulkhead inside the Hase fuselage.

The solution is to take a 2 mm section out and reshape.

In the end I realised it needs to be trimmed out of the cowl as well.

This was an on/off project, and has been in the off pile for quite a while....

 

The Hobby Boss fuselage is better on this, but has It own faults.

 

My suggestion for an accurate-4 by cross kitting would be an Academy nose (cut down) and wing added to a Tamiya -1.  You still need an engine  the 4 blade prop can be got from a Tamiya P-47, they all come with multiple props.  The early -4 use the same canopy as the F4U-1D,  later have the flat screen. 

If you want a folded wing, you can use the Tamiya parts.

If you really like surgery you can fix the Academy kit.....

I eventually picked up the CMK -4 conversion  and have pair of Tamiya -1 kits I got cheap off a chap on here as some clown had tried to fit resin wheel wells, and had wrecked one centre section and mangled the other.....

 

But, yes  it's amazing that there is not a decent -4 in the scale, or any scale I believe.

 

Back to your kit bash,  since you are chopping up the Hase -5 kit, you may want to see if you can use more of the fuselage and add the Mania nose to it?  The -5 has a raised section behind the canopy that would need adjusting.  

 

Anyway, hope of interest/use,  always good to see someone  try to fix the problem rather than just moan about it! 

Cheers 

T

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Thanks for the information. 

I'm not really building this to be completely accurate in every dimension and contour. I'm building it to make a reasonable representation of an airplane I really like.

 

I'm more a casual hobbyist. I do this for fun. General fit and finish is most important to me. If it looks good from a few feet away, I'm happy.

 

Thanks again for taking the time to inform me of the corrections. 

 

Be well 

Ron 

Edited February 4, 2023 by Mycapt65

[Troy Smith]

20 hours ago, Mycapt65 said:

I do this for fun. General fit and finish is most important to me. If it looks good from a few feet away, I'm happy.

Good Philosophy Ron.

 

I went down a bit of a rabbit hole on the F4U-4 as it an odd omission in the available kits, plus far more than I realised were used in WW2.  

see here

https://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/235022592-f4u-4-use-in-wwii/#elControls_3977255_menu

 

A question, do you have the Hobby Boss F4U-4,  or just seen reviews of it,  just from your basic philosophy,  a few tweaks may well have made it a reasonable -4.

 

Anyway,  be good to see how this one develops.    One thing you may want to have a play with, since you have already chopped up the -5 kit,  you might want to experiment seeing if you can cut at the back of the engine compartment and attach the Minicraft -4 nose and see how that looks. 

You might even be able to make 2 F4U-4's  from this.

 

cheers

T

 

 

 

[Mycapt65]

12 hours ago, Troy Smith said:

Good Philosophy Ron.

 

I went down a bit of a rabbit hole on the F4U-4 as it an odd omission in the available kits, plus far more than I realised were used in WW2.  

see here

https://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/235022592-f4u-4-use-in-wwii/#elControls_3977255_menu

 

A question, do you have the Hobby Boss F4U-4,  or just seen reviews of it,  just from your basic philosophy,  a few tweaks may well have made it a reasonable -4.

 

Anyway,  be good to see how this one develops.    One thing you may want to have a play with, since you have already chopped up the -5 kit,  you might want to experiment seeing if you can cut at the back of the engine compartment and attach the Minicraft -4 nose and see how that looks. 

You might even be able to make 2 F4U-4's  from this.

 

cheers

T

 

 

 

I don't have the Hobbyboss F4U-4 but have seen several builds of it, with and without aftermarket. It looks ok when the cowling is addressed. There's a few other things I forget about it that look odd or are problematic. I don't like the open wing bays because they're always hard to close up nicely. The wing fold is poorly detailed IIRC and definitely at the wrong angle. The angle is so wrong it's noticeable from across the street. 

 

After your input I decided to compare the F4U-4 fuselage to the F4U-5N fuselage. The -4 is deeper and measurable but I'm guessing it's closer to 1mm than 2mm. I was looking for a way to use the -5 fuselage. Unfortunately my -5 donor kit is missing the port fuselage so I would have to donate a complete late model Hasegawa F4U kit. I'd be willing to cut up my F4U-7 if I thought it was possible without much strife. 

 

It would involve using the -4 forward fuselage, cowling and spine and sourcing the rest from the -7 kit. Unfortunately the -4 cowling is still slightly too deep and to shorten it would be difficult without throwing off the circular opening and or the grin. 

 

I'm still considering this option, but I'm leaning towards ignoring the millimeter, millimeter and half of extra depth. The contours of the Hasegawa -4  belly don't look too squared off to me enough to cut off and fix. It's a lot of work to fix something that doesn't really jump out at me. I'd really like to find some scale drawing to see what the actual dimensions and contours are. I don't necessarily trust either Tamiya or Hasegawa to be correct. Both companies are not beyond reproach and have made dimensional accuracy errors in the era these kits were produced.

 

 

Edited February 5, 2023 by Mycapt65

[Troy Smith]

8 hours ago, Mycapt65 said:

Unfortunately my -5 donor kit is missing the port fuselage so I would have to donate a complete late model Hasegawa F4U kit. I'd be willing to cut up my F4U-7 if I thought it was possible without much strife.

Ah, now I know why you have a -5 to play with.....  

 

8 hours ago, Mycapt65 said:

The contours of the Hasegawa -4  belly don't look too squared off to me enough to cut off and fix. It's a lot of work to fix something that doesn't really jump out at me. I'd really like to find some scale drawing to see what the actual dimensions and contours are. I don't necessarily trust either Tamiya or Hasegawa to be correct. Both companies are not beyond reproach and have made dimensional accuracy errors in the era these kits were produced.

 

Indeed.  Though I have never seen an wailing or gnashing of teeth over the Tamiya F4U-1 kit, and I can't see any major problems looking at photos.

the Hase/maina and it's copy the Academy, do have a too deep fuselage, and it's also the wrong shape. 

 

 

This factory line photo  clearly shows the fuselage shape, and it's the same shape as the Tamiya F4U-1 seat bulkhead. 

 

if you sight up the Hase or Academy fuselage from a similar view point the shape problem is clearer.

 

If I knw where my Corsair box was (apart from being with all the other boxes.)  I'd supply more.

 

For what you are doing Ron, and your stated intent,   it's not really worth the effort.   

 

 

I ever do find the boxes and do some photos,  I'll tag you if I remember.   Looking at the linked thread, I know subsequent to that after another age of staring at photos that I took segment out of the front cowling. 

 

if you look at this pic of the Academy fuselage,  the cowl flap below the exhaust, parallel to the black line, is deeper than the others, this is where the same 2mm sections needs taking out, and then the wing fits.    What I can't recall is how I dealt with the cowl ring. 

 

  I know I did spend ages doing all the comparisons and no-one has said I'm talking complete rubbish.... well, about this at least! 

 

And, whatever,  I'm sure you will have an F4U-4B model before 2030 unlike me.....

 

cheers

T

[Mycapt65]

12 hours ago, Troy Smith said:

Ah, now I know why you have a -5 to play with.....  

 

 

Indeed.  Though I have never seen an wailing or gnashing of teeth over the Tamiya F4U-1 kit, and I can't see any major problems looking at photos.

the Hase/maina and it's copy the Academy, do have a too deep fuselage, and it's also the wrong shape. 

 

 

This factory line photo  clearly shows the fuselage shape, and it's the same shape as the Tamiya F4U-1 seat bulkhead. 

 

if you sight up the Hase or Academy fuselage from a similar view point the shape problem is clearer.

 

If I knw where my Corsair box was (apart from being with all the other boxes.)  I'd supply more.

 

For what you are doing Ron, and your stated intent,   it's not really worth the effort.   

 

 

I ever do find the boxes and do some photos,  I'll tag you if I remember.   Looking at the linked thread, I know subsequent to that after another age of staring at photos that I took segment out of the front cowling. 

 

if you look at this pic of the Academy fuselage,  the cowl flap below the exhaust, parallel to the black line, is deeper than the others, this is where the same 2mm sections needs taking out, and then the wing fits.    What I can't recall is how I dealt with the cowl ring. 

 

  I know I did spend ages doing all the comparisons and no-one has said I'm talking complete rubbish.... well, about this at least! 

 

And, whatever,  I'm sure you will have an F4U-4B model before 2030 unlike me.....

 

cheers

T

Apologies 

Edited February 6, 2023 by Mycapt65
Misunderstanding

[marvinneko]

4 hours ago, Mycapt65 said:

Whatever! You're right I'm wrong. Are you happy? I'm trying to come up with a reasonably practical approach to filling a void in modeling. I'm done here.

Troy's a great guy. Super helpful and not judgy at all. I think you've misinterpreted him based on expecting something negative from this community. The people here are actually amazing. I say this as a complete hamfisted novice who has been helped by Troy and others. The focus here is on fun and helping others, not judging. People love to converse and interact to feel a part of the builds. It's just part of the fun.

[Mycapt65]

7 hours ago, marvinneko said:

Troy's a great guy. Super helpful and not judgy at all. I think you've misinterpreted him based on expecting something negative from this community. The people here are actually amazing. I say this as a complete hamfisted novice who has been helped by Troy and others. The focus here is on fun and helping others, not judging. People love to converse and interact to feel a part of the builds. It's just part of the fun.

You're right. I read his post again and I misunderstood it the first time. My apologies 

[Mycapt65]

I'm going to take a different tack then originally planned. I think I'm going to use the bulk -5 kit. I'll use the -4 turtle deck, fuselage forward of the firewall. The -5 windscreen mates well with the -4 hood👍

 

 

 

This will help me avoid making a zigzag cut with a long horizontal cut. This way helps retain the better shape and size of the -5 fuselage. I'm still waiting on my other -5 fuselage half to arrive from FleaBay before I further cut up the -4.

[David H]

I know this project has taken enormous steps backward, based on the receipt of new information, but i'm looking forward to how this turns out.

 

I too know about the somewhat deep keel of the Hasegawa -4 fuselage, but always gave it a pass because it was less screwed up than the Academy fuselage was.

 

At any rate, i'm looking forward to seeing the model with the -5 fuselage. I'm sure it will look a lot better.

 

-d-

[Mycapt65]

Here's another visual of the cuts. 

 

 

[David H]

i *might* inherit Tom Weinel's largely complete F4U-5N project so i welcome further developments with interest...

[Mycapt65]

ETA on my other -5 fuselage half is Friday. Until then I guess I'll work on adding fabric panels to the wings. Any suggestions? 

[Troy Smith]

On 07/02/2023 at 00:09, Mycapt65 said:

Until then I guess I'll work on adding fabric panels to the wings. Any suggestions? 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

KD431, the Tijme Capsule Corsair (there is a book about it) it's unrestored. yes an FG-1D, but the wing is the same construction.

The starboard wing was stripped at some time, but the port is original fabric, 

 

I have some suggestions on how to replicate this, but got to go right now, so will edit in later.

[Troy Smith]

On 07/02/2023 at 00:09, Mycapt65 said:

Until then I guess I'll work on adding fabric panels to the wings. Any suggestions? 

As the photos in the previous post show,  despite what many models show, as in valleys between the ribs, and sackcloth effect,  the surface is basically flat.

To stress, KD431 was issued to the Royal Navy,  was used briefly post war, and then ended up at a technical school, for instruction on wing folding,  and apart the fabric being stripped from one wing,  was left untouched from wartime.

In the early 60's it was given to the Fleet Air Arm museum, and has cost a blue polyurethane paint slapped on, years later it was found this had not   stuck very well, and was carefully removed,  otherwise it was not restored. 

As such it is the most authentic Corsair still existing, down to paper labels still attached.   

This is detailed in the book, KD431, The Time Capsule Fighter.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Corsair-KD431-Time-Capsule-Fighter/dp/075094305X

 

What you see are the rib tapes, and a little of the rib underneath.  Sometimes you see more the rib.

On the images above,  the rib look like a slightly raised strip. 

 

On a model,  I would try gently scribing in the rib positions with a needle in pin vice with a straightedge.  

 

OK, more searching turns up this of the KD431

http://www.twinbeech.com/images/FG-1D/MVC-145S.JPG

which shows up the rib construction, with a central channel.

 

This should slightly raise some plastic either side of the scribed line.  

Then add rib tapes.

 

For rib tapes, you could try paper,  dress makers tissue, (it's stronger and a bit thicker),  maybe Tamiya tape, or aluminium tape, sold for sealing joins between insulation boards and ducting.  The last has strong adhesive.  

You scribed rib should slightly show through the rib tape, as seen on the elevator shot (sorry couldn't find one of the wing) 

 

This may not work,  so you may find just rib taping alone will work.   Once done a coats of primer should tie it all togther.

 

Now these will all be on the surface,  so before adding the rib tapes,  you could try  masking off the fabric areas, and then spray a good coat of primer on, this hopefully will give an edge to the panel. Then apply the rib tapes.  the rib tapes hopefully not sitting flush with the built up primer.  

 

fabric areas when new are not quite as shiny as metal, and fabric areas do seem to fade more more, or become matter when aged, or both.

You could replicate this by using a matter finish on the fabric parts, or adding a small amount of light grey to the matt varnish, or use chalk pastel on the fabric areas. 

 

PS edit

this is a very tatty F4U-4  seen in 1946 in the Mediterranean,  (often miscaptioned) 

If you look closely you can the matter/faded fabric parts

 

 

Ages ago I was trying to do a Hurricane prototype, and I used aluminium tape for the ribs, and covered over this with tissue paper (the sort for flying models) 

40600182 by losethekibble, on Flickr

 

This is OK, but I'd try something different now.  (like the ideas above) 

 

On a 72nd Corsair,  I tried adding rib tapes (I for forgot about this) by scribing a line,  adding thin stretched sprue, covering with some mr Surfacer, and then rubbing down.    I did this without looking at the pics I posted above.  The result is OK for 72nd, but not great.  The model didn't get finished so never got as far as differentiating the fabric parts.  

 

50620075 by losethekibble, on Flickr

 

Really you need to look at images, and experiment with some different techniques, perhaps some of the ideas above will get you a result you like. 

 

Be worth looking to see if you can find more Corsair wing fabric images,  I searched for KD431 for the known provenance of the airframe.

 

HTH

 

[Mycapt65]

I looked at a bunch of photos and the fabric isn't that obvious. I think I'm going to play a little smoke and mirrors with the paint job. Maybe scrape very slight troughs between the ribs with a curved scapel blade. 

[Mycapt65]

Nope after a lot of unnecessary work on wings. The fuselages were unworkable. At least at my skill level the spine of the -4 fuselage is considerably taller and wider. Also trying to work out the angles to make the canopy fit closed would require too much modifications that many details would be misaligned.

Hopefully my failure will prevent some poor schlub from trying the same kit bash. 

 

 

Sorry guys 

 

Be well 

Ron 

Edited February 12, 2023 by Mycapt65

[Mycapt65]

A gluten for punishment I'm trying to fit the 5N wings I spent so much time on to another -4B

 

Oooy 

[Thom216]

Sorry to hear it won't work out - yet! I'd say keep the parts, in a few years you might be ready to tackle it again.

[Mycapt65]

I'm embarrassed to say I have one model on the SOD. I muscle through projects to some sort of an end. Good or bad. Persistence is a personality flaw or quality depending on the moment