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Reducing Panel Line Depth?


dr_gn

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All, I'll be building a 1:72 Airfix Spitfire Mk1 soon, and the panel lines are huge, especially on the rear upper fuselage. I've already got the kit, so might as well at least try to use it. I can think of a few methods to address the line widths and depths:

 

1) Fill with dissolved sprue and re-scribe.

 

2) Fill with filler and re-scribe (some fillers are a nightmare to scribe without crumbling).

 

3) Use Mr. Surfacer or similar, and hope for the best.

 

4) Fill, and draw the panel lines on with a pencil.

 

5) Sand the whole airframe surface down (not a viable option IMO).

 

6) Leave it, and hope light weathering will hide them (I do like to do a dilute wash on panel lines).

 

None of them seem particularly foolproof. Any other ideas?

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In the past I have used stretched sprue set into the panel lines using Tamiya super thin cement, then rescribed. If you use a sprue of a different colour the the kit plastic, it provides an automatic scribing guide. Dissolved sprue is much the same effect, but I found using stretched sprue neater and easier to get a final finish (less sanding)

 

Cheers

 

Colin

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A couple of coats of primer cut back with some fine sanding should reduce the appearance of the lines.  This was a problem on my current build of the Bugatti 100 air racer, but for you, it could be the solution. :yes:

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1 hour ago, dr_gn said:

Any other ideas?

 

from, and not tried it 

 

https://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/235072750-172-sea-harrier-frs1-x-2-airfix-vs-italeri-comparative-assembly/#elControls_3677016_menu

"My "patent" for too wide "trenches" is very easy. I've already use it on the old OEZ Letohrad 1/48 Su-25 model and I think it worked:"

First thing I do is deepening (!!!) the lines with engraver. 

SHAR-work-3.jpg

 

After that I cover the deepened panel lines with Mr. Surfacer 500 (quite thick, dense coat).

 

SHAR-work-4.jpg

 

SHAR-work-5.jpg

 

 

When Surfacer will be dry I sand it from the lines. They should be much thinner and shallower after that. Soon we will see if this operation was successful...  

OK, it`s dry, so I could start sanding. I use normal sandpaper on flat surfaces and sanding sticks around the details.

 

SHAR-work-6.jpg

 

When this was done, I started cleaning the lines. I used a toothbrush.

SHAR-work-7.jpg

The next step was to cover the sanded parts with a layer of primer.

SHAR-work-9.jpg

As you can see the panel lines on Airfix model look much better now. They are narrower and more delicate.

SHAR-work-10.jpg

 

1 hour ago, dr_gn said:

3) Use Mr. Surfacer or similar, and hope for the best.

possibly use Tippex, as this may shrink a little.  

 

HTH

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3 hours ago, dr_gn said:

5) Sand the whole airframe surface down (not a viable option IMO).

There is an approach where you sand down just a little, which has the effect of squaring off the rounded edges of the moulded trenches. This has the effect of making them appear much finer without having to fill anything at all. It may work on the Spitfire, but probably wouldn't on an Airfix 1/48th Canberra.

 

The other things that help in not drawing attention to them is to avoid panel line preshading and and post-painting washes. Plus you could use my favourite method of weathering the airframe so heavily that you simply can't see the panel lines any more :winkgrin:.

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What about using Tippex correction fluid? It could be away around the issue

 Any surplus along the edges can be wiped off with something like IPA with a cotton bud.

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Thanks all. On balance, I'll try the Mr.Surfacer method, and sand the excess back (mainly becasue I've just bought a new pot of 1000). I know it shrinks like mad, but if I start on it now, by the time I've got four or so fully hardened coats on, I might be ready to actually start building it.

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5 hours ago, cmatthewbacon said:

If it's a Spitfire Mk1 I'd just fill them:

 

IMG_6348.JPG-L.jpg

 

IMG_6349.JPG-L.jpg

 

Any kind of 3D panel line is massively overscale in 1/72, A faint pencil line, if you want some indication... or cut some panels from foil or ally duct tape before the primer.

best,

M.

 

I guess there are several opinions on this. Mine is that if you were to somehow scale a real aircraft down 72 times, it might not look as you'd expect. I tend to think that if you know there are panel lines on the real thing, you excpect to see them on a model, and if they're not there, the model looks too smooth - almost stylised. I think the panel lines on, say the 1:72 Tamiya Ki-61 or A6M look just right, but if they're too deep, like the Airfix Spitfire, they look terrible.

 

Likewise high-gloss finishes (the Airfix Vulcan I'm building is a case in point); to me, a small-scale model in gloss looks totally wrong - every out of scale surface feature and inaccuracy is - literally - highlighted.

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16 hours ago, dr_gn said:

 I tend to think that if you know there are panel lines on the real thing, you excpect to see them on a model, and if they're not there, the model looks too smooth - almost stylised. I think the panel lines on, say the 1:72 Tamiya Ki-61 or A6M look just right, but if they're too deep, like the Airfix Spitfire, they look terrible.

Fair enough... looking at a serendipitously-discovered review of an Eduard 1/72 Spitfire on HS, it looks like the happy middle ground would be reducing a few key panel lines (radio hatch, tail joint) and using a "Rosie the Riveter" to put in lines of rivets on a smooth surface in place of the rest...

best,

M.

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Fill in the panel lines with Mr Surfacer with a small brush carefully, when dry take a damp cotton cloth wetted with IPA and wipe off the excess. Saves a lot of messy sanding, just don't get the cloth too wet

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On 1/31/2023 at 4:23 PM, cmatthewbacon said:

If it's a Spitfire Mk1 I'd just fill them:

 

Any kind of 3D panel line is massively overscale in 1/72, A faint pencil line, if you want some indication... or cut some panels from foil or ally duct tape before the primer.

I agree - think this kit is my next Blitzbuild offering, and that's what I had planned to do.

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5 hours ago, colin said:

Fill in the panel lines with Mr Surfacer with a small brush carefully, when dry take a damp cotton cloth wetted with IPA and wipe off the excess. Saves a lot of messy sanding, just don't get the cloth too wet


So IPA is a decent solvent for Mr.Surfacer?

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6 hours ago, colin said:

Fill in the panel lines with Mr Surfacer with a small brush carefully, when dry take a damp cotton cloth wetted with IPA and wipe off the excess. Saves a lot of messy sanding, just don't get the cloth too wet

 

30 minutes ago, dr_gn said:


So IPA is a decent solvent for Mr.Surfacer?

 

I didn't think so. Mr Surfacer is a lacquer, stinks to the heavens. It just didn't sound right...

 

So I just did a quick test in case Colin was thinking of something else and sure enough, IPA dissolved Mr Surfacer 1000 from a plastic surface. I didn't have time to let it dry overnight btw, but speed dried it with a hairdryer.

 

That's useful information in many different applications. Thanks @colin for saving me a lot of sanding time in future.

 

 

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23 minutes ago, Bertie McBoatface said:

 

 

I didn't think so. Mr Surfacer is a lacquer, stinks to the heavens. It just didn't sound right...

 

So I just did a quick test in case Colin was thinking of something else and sure enough, IPA dissolved Mr Surfacer 1000 from a plastic surface. I didn't have time to let it dry overnight btw, but speed dried it with a hairdryer.

 

That's useful information in many different applications. Thanks @colin for saving me a lot of sanding time in future.

 

 

That’s what I thought. I’m wary of using anything but the correct thinners on stuff like this in case it affects the base paint somehow. But if it’s tried and tested, happy days.

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7 minutes ago, colin said:

It's a good way to get Mr Surfacer off instead on sanding in awkward places without loosing the surrounding detail   

 

For me this technique makes Mr Surfacer as easy and neat to use as Vallejo acrylic thinner with the advantage that it's loads more robust. I'm quite excited about this. 😁

 

It also gives me confidence to consider spraying the stuff now I know I can clean it out of my airbrush. 

 

@colin, have you sprayed it? If so, with which thinners?

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Maybe a combination of Surfacer in the panel lines, wiped off with IPA, followed by a light flatting all over to take any radius of the upper panel line edges might be a plan. A combination of techniques? 
 

I’ll make a start tomorrow. I only have surfacer 1000, so with shrinkage it’ll take about 4 doses I’d have thought, then overall Tamiya primer.

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25 minutes ago, Bertie McBoatface said:

 

For me this technique makes Mr Surfacer as easy and neat to use as Vallejo acrylic thinner with the advantage that it's loads more robust. I'm quite excited about this. 😁

 

It also gives me confidence to consider spraying the stuff now I know I can clean it out of my airbrush. 

 

@colin, have you sprayed it? If so, with which thinners?

It's my go to primer, I use MLT to spray but have a dedicated room above the garage with extraction. Never tried airbrushing it with IPA, but have noticed Mr Hobby have just brought out a Mr Surfacer Aqueous one now 

Mr Hobby Aqueous Surfacer 500, 40ml (air-craft.net)

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I'll join this again if I may.

 

From my experience (and I've done this a lot) IPA is perfect for removing excess Mr Surfacer from seams etc without damaging any of the detail as @colin has said. Simply add a few drops to a cotton bud and scrub away.

 

However:

- it will also remove any paint or primer

- I believe it will be very difficult to easily achieve a uniform depth over of filler over a whole model

 

If you are very patient then go for it but be prepared for frustration. I'd still try un-thinned primer.

Mark

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