Rookie Errors Revisited - First Build for 36 Years with apologies to Spitfire fans (finished)

[Troy Smith]

4 hours ago, Zephyr91 said:

So I got some new Humbrol 56 Aluminium and you can see the results on the nose, fuse and tailplane.      Looks a bit dark to me.  In digging around for pics (and again this BM forum is amazing) the only similar schemes I can find seems to be somewhat lighter.  Any thoughts?

try mixing some H 11 silver in, or white.  Or both.  or add some pale grey or white to silver 11. 

 

Pre war period colour.  This is what you are aiming for 

Early Spitfire at Hornchurch  1939. by Etienne du Plessis, on Flickr

Spitfire  Mk. I by Etienne du Plessis, on Flickr

 

4 hours ago, Zephyr91 said:

I use brushes.

Good. if it works for you,  I have an airbrush, but as that's another learning curve, I use brushes.   For acrylic I have found a small flat brush works well,  no idea about enamel but maybe worth trying. 

careful thinning and multiple thin coats.   Some colours are just hard work to brush, like white and yellow, which you may need a primer for.

 

HTH

[bigbadbadge]

3 hours ago, Dunny said:

Rob,

 

I shall just @bigbadbadge here. Chris is the acknowledged master of the hairy stick and I'm sure will be happy to impart some tricks,

 

Cheers,

 

Roger

😄 Thanks Roger, not sure about master though. 

 

Rob

Great to see some paint on fella.  I use a combination of CA and Talc for some filling jobs , it's fantastic stuff, the others I use are PPP or Perfect Plastic Putty which you can wipe awY with a wet finger or cotton bud but only on jobs that are not too shallow.  If filling a seem before paint I use sprue goo, Humbrol liquid policy or Tamiya extra thin with bits of sprue melted in it to make a gloop filler. Easily sanded and bonds to the surface, brilliant stuff.

I use Humbrol and Colourcoats enamels and thin them ever so slightly to make them as smooth as possible but not too thin as to be opaque,  some people place it in a bottle lid to thin but I do it in the tin.

The white is a tricky colour and I usually end up giving about 5 coats or more and this applies to yellow too.   So just keep at it, although some see through effect can look like weathering so bear that in mind too.

The Aluminium colour I go to usually is 56 and have happily painted models with it and would use it on the bottom of a Spitfire, I am currently doing a 32nd Sea Hurricane and have used Humbrol metal coat  Aluminium for that.

 

It is just a case of experimenting really. 

The brushpainting is very therapeutic and I enjoy the challenge of trying to get a good finish.

I use Colourcoats naphtha thinners now to gain the paint.

 

I have to get back to work now as lunch over if you have any questions please ask. There are quite a few fellow brush painters on the forum.

 

Keep up the good work

Chris

[Zephyr91]

39 minutes ago, bigbadbadge said:

I have to get back to work now as lunch over if you have any questions please ask.

Chris

Very great thanks again guys.   Oh this site keeps on giving - twice in Chris' @bigbadbadge case .   Clearly rushing to get back after lunch, so fully understandable.  And many thanks for taking time out of your precious free time to reply!  Deserves a 🏅.

 

I have taken to the sprue goo - Humbrol thinners and making sure the sprue bits chopped in are small for easy dissolving seemed to work best.   Will def try the CA+talc soon.

 

The white is coming on ( 2 thinned coats so far) but I found a hair had been trapped so have had to gently remove that prior to next coat.  I once saw one of your threads Chris that you noted a broad flat brush was good for the main surfaces, and have followed that.  The thinned white has gone on very evenly with little evidence of brush strokes (at least to my jaundiced eye 😜).    I'm awaiting a delivery of Colourcoates thinner so can really get to grips with the other colours.   Thanks to Roger @Dunny for flagging Chris.

 

1 hour ago, Troy Smith said:

try mixing some H 11 silver in, or white.  Or both.  or add some pale grey or white to silver 11. 

Thanks @Troy Smith you've also lavished much time on this tyro, and you deserve one of these too 🏅.   I have previously seen the picture with the chap standing there in front of the wing but not the first of the pics you posted - thanks.   The silver does look bit lighter, so may have a go at this on a spare bit of plastic.   Then see if I want to re-do that bit.  Chris noted he used it staright.

 

I notice in both photos, genuine colour I assume, that the starboard u/c leg cover is soaked in fluid/oil.  That's despite the aicraft looking in generally fine fettle.   I've seen it commented before about how messy were the Merlins and that willl definitely have to be looked at nearer completion here. 

 

Thanks again to all who are helping me.

 

Keep well

 

Rob

Edited February 1, 2023 by Zephyr91
speeling correction but probably missed others

[bigbadbadge]

3 hours ago, Zephyr91 said:

Very great thanks again guys.   Oh this site keeps on giving - twice in Chris' @bigbadbadge case .   Clearly rushing to get back after lunch, so fully understandable.  And many thanks for taking time out of your precious free time to reply!  Deserves a 🏅.

 

I have taken to the sprue goo - Humbrol thinners and making sure the sprue bits chopped in are small for easy dissolving seemed to work best.   Will def try the CA+talc soon.

 

The white is coming on ( 2 thinned coats so far) but I found a hair had been trapped so have had to gently remove that prior to next coat.  I once saw one of your threads Chris that you noted a broad flat brush was good for the main surfaces, and have followed that.  The thinned white has gone on very evenly with little evidence of brush strokes (at least to my jaundiced eye 😜).    I'm awaiting a delivery of Colourcoates thinner so can really get to grips with the other colours.   Thanks to Roger @Dunny for flagging Chris.

Hi Rob no worries fella,yes the wide flat brush is great and sorry I forgot to mention that.  Glad to hear the white is going on well.

The sprue goo is great stuff and sands easily, don't put too much spru in to start with as it thickens up as it ages too.

Don't put it in Humbrol Thinners, either a bottle of Humbrol liquid poly ot or Tamiya Extra Thin .

The CA and talc is fantastic and can be used as a great filler and you can build it up and sculpt as Troy has said.

It's a great learning experience and there is some fantastic info on here.

Chris

 

[Zephyr91]

16 minutes ago, bigbadbadge said:

Don't put it in Humbrol Thinners, either a bottle of Humbrol liquid poly ot or Tamiya Extra Thin .

 

 

Apologies. Age related typing error!!   I didn't use thinners, I did indeed use Humbrol liquid poly!    --  must be the fumes

 

Cheers

 

Rob

[Zephyr91]

6 hours ago, Troy Smith said:

try mixing some H 11 silver in, or white.  Or both.  or add some pale grey or white to silver 11

@Troy Smith  I have tried some variations on this.  To my eye the H56 + H11 + white was more satisfactory (very very approx ratios of 6:4:2).  Thanks for the tip.

 

Having said that, there's a big caveat that I'm comparing the sample I created with a picture on a laptop screen!  But I'm probably not going to be able to do any better.  I take the view that if one is aware of the shortfalls, one is at least able to ignore them with integrity (say's he sounding as pompous as hrll!!) 

 

cheers

 

Rob

[Zephyr91]

On 28/01/2023 at 19:51, Troy Smith said:

also,   get some foam backed sanding pads.  Very useful.  

I feel I have to follow-up on Troy's suggestion.  I duly placed an order and

 

 

....the beast arrived.  I set it free.......

 

 

I have to say that it's good value.  155 pieces for under £9 delivered compared to my very neat and tidy 3(6 grades) sanding sticks for £5 from Hobbycraft.  There are 5 different grades from Fine to X-microfine and some slightly coarser ungraded.  Being curious I googled the info on grades and P values ...............

 

Gosh!  I hadn't realised that there was such a wide utopian world out there related to sanding info and activities.    Anyway, @Troy Smith and @billn53 I now have no excuse for not being able to sand anything anywhere ever

 

Have a good day

 

Rob

 

 

[AdrianMF]

I'm tempted now...

[tonyh]

1 hour ago, AdrianMF said:

I'm tempted now...

I succumbed…….

[Zephyr91]

Wheels!     I've just spent half the day trying to paint these with bad effects on blood pressure etc..   If only.  If only I'd looked for this first..................

 

 

Slow learner.    Should know by now.  But I'll get there.  I've included the link for those of similar lack of experience.    Just got to restore the wheels/tyres back to starting point ............    But the sanding's going great 

 

Thanks for looking

 

Rob

[Galligraphics]

11 hours ago, tonyh said:

I succumbed…….

Me too. A sackful was delivered this morning 

[billn53]

7 hours ago, Zephyr91 said:

Wheels!     I've just spent half the day trying to paint these with bad effects on blood pressure etc..   If only.  If only I'd looked for this first..................

 

 

Slow learner.    Should know by now.  But I'll get there.  I've included the link for those of similar lack of experience.    Just got to restore the wheels/tyres back to starting point ............    But the sanding's going great 

 

Thanks for looking

 

Rob

I use a variation on this technique, where I run a scriber around the wheel to create a groove before applying the thinned tyre color.

[Zephyr91]

Progress feels slow.  I'd been reluctant to update because these wheels are still driving me mad even after all the good tips and advice!   If I had grandchildren here they'd have learnt some interesting new anglo-saxon terminology relating to said wheels. 

 

But I've also been applying paint to the undersides and the evidence is here .....

 

 

I'm happy with the white (5 coats!) and almost ready to call the aluminium/silver ok - just waiting for it to dry (3 coats so far).  Will try some night next on the other side.   And on AZoH I've done 2 coats of sky, but that deffo needs more work.  Photo makes the colour seem a bit odd - better in daylight.

 

So having restored equanimity, I'll have another go at the wheels later.

 

Thanks for looking,

 

Rob

[AliGauld]

It's all looking good from this end.

Wheels can be a total pain to paint.

The amount of times I've had to touch up the touch ups of the touch ups is beyond counting.

Keep it up you'll get there and there's nothing wrong with a good rant using various arcane Anglo-Saxon phrases.

It does the head good to vent every so often.

 

 

Cheers,

Alistair

[billn53]

2 hours ago, AliGauld said:

 

Wheels can be a total pain to paint.

The amount of times I've had to touch up the touch ups of the touch ups is beyond counting.

 

Alistair,

Was that you looking over my shoulder this morning, while I was screwing up the paint job on my Dauntless’s wheels?

[AliGauld]

10 minutes ago, billn53 said:

Alistair,

Was that you looking over my shoulder this morning, while I was screwing up the paint job on my Dauntless’s wheels?

Eh no, a big boy did it and ran away. 

 

Cheers,

Alistair

[bigbadbadge]

All looking good from here Rob, wheels certainly can be a pain. The white is looking good. 

With regard to the night colour, I usually mix a bit of Humbrol Matt black 33 and interior grey green 78, together and this lights the black suitably for the night colour.

 

Great work

Chris

[2996 Victor]

2 hours ago, bigbadbadge said:

With regard to the night colour, I usually mix a bit of Humbrol Matt black 33 and interior grey green 78, together and this lights the black suitably for the night colour.

That's a good idea, Chris - I would have used just a light grey, but the IGG must add a slightly different hue. Must try that!

 

17 hours ago, Zephyr91 said:

But I've also been applying paint to the undersides and the evidence is here .....

Looking very nice indeed! The wheel/tyre painting technique sounds like a breeze - I always struggle and end up touching up the touch ups, too!

 

Cheers,

Mark

[Zephyr91]

Thanks chaps for the reassurance that it might not just be me who struggles with the wheels.  It is my fault, but to know that I'm not entirely alone is helpful. 

2 hours ago, bigbadbadge said:

All looking good from here Rob, wheels certainly can be a pain. The white is looking good. 

With regard to the night colour, I usually mix a bit of Humbrol Matt black 33 and interior grey green 78, together and this lights the black suitably for the night colour.

 

Great work

Chris

Thanks Chris, you are too kind.  I like the tip about night mix.  However, I've just taken delivery of some Colourcoates night, so will give that a try.

 

Back to the wretched wheels (I'm beginning to see the attraction of in-flight finish  )  but I've had another go.   I can see that the tip about capillary action has potential for my next build (groans from the audience) and it almost worked here.  But I think I'd so ruined the rims by repeated removal of excess paint that there was leakage onto the hubs in places.   I've managed to get them to a state that will survive the quickest-of-glance-type ( like a nano-second) scrutiny.  To do any more ......... well, there lies the way of madness        Please don't be too harsh if you ever see them.

 

Planning ahead, I'll be having a go at the DE soon.  I note on the instructions that the schemes are different.  I think it's 'A' on AZoH/N3277 and 'B' on GRoU/N3290.   I've looked in STH and the Camouflage and Markings (northern Europe) and both confirm these schemes in general.  BUT I can't see in either ref the explicit bit of info that confirms, say, A for odd serial numbers and B for even.   Whilst I'm not hard over on these things, I think it would be a bit of a blooper to get it wrong.  And I've seen so many instances where kit instructions have proven not fully reliable.  I guess it could be such a basic question that all the Britmodeller threads I quickly scanned didn't address this..  So without opening the proverbial worm-can any quick thoughts?

 

Thanks for looking

 

Rob

 

[AliGauld]

4 minutes ago, Zephyr91 said:

I'm beginning to see the attraction of in-flight finish 

Unfortunately that can have it's issues as well.

Trying to get a good fit on closed undercarriage doors if the kit hasn't been designed for that can be "interesting"

Not trying to put you off, your model your rules, but it's one to watch out for and remember that if your kit is on display 99.9% of the people who see it will not have an experts view. 

Coloucoats Night is fantastic stuff. It's the right colour and when I spray it with their thinners you can see it drying before your eyes.

 

Cheers,

Alistair

[Zephyr91]

22 minutes ago, AliGauld said:

Unfortunately that can have it's issues as well.

Trying to get a good fit on closed undercarriage doors if the kit hasn't been designed for that can be "interesting"

Not trying to put you off, your model your rules, but it's one to watch out for and remember that if your kit is on display 99.9% of the people who see it will not have an experts view. 

Coloucoats Night is fantastic stuff. It's the right colour and when I spray it with their thinners you can see it drying before your eyes.

 

Cheers,

Alistair

Thanks Alistair.  Point taken about the potential fit of undercarriage doors.   I think I was approaching the end of what few wits I posess when I made that statement.     The Colourcoats paints seem to get almost universal approval around here, so I've started gradually aquiring some of the key colours to replace my old claggy Humbrol versions.

 

31 minutes ago, Zephyr91 said:

I note on the instructions that the schemes are different.  I think it's 'A' on AZoH/N3277 and 'B' on GRoU/N3290.  

Now this is dangerous - quoting myself!!  But this is by way of partially answering my own question.   I have found the photos on-line of AZoH after capture in France.  They confirm the instructions scheme, so I'm happy to go with that one.     But I've also found

https://cambridgemilitaryhistory.com/tag/no-92-squadron    where there is a pic of GRoG/P9372 which seems to have the opposite of that shown for GRoU.     So still a little wary on this one.

 

cheers

 

Rob

 

Edited February 4, 2023 by Zephyr91
typo

[Zephyr91]

OK.  I've confirmed (to my mind) that the instructions for GRoU are ok.  I finally found the Le Bourget picture showing Churchill's visit.  My version is in Alfred Price's "The Spitfire Story" and is picture 62.  I can convince myself that the aircraft has the 'B' scheme.  So minor diversion over.  Next time I'll try and get the research ducks in a row before progressing quite as far.

 

🦆🦆🦆 - research ducks? 

 

cheers

 

Rob

[Troy Smith]

2 hours ago, Zephyr91 said:

  I can convince myself that the aircraft has the 'B' scheme. 

this is a GR-U, note the 'U' under the nose.

92  Squadron 02 by Сергей Кривицкий, on Flickr

 

  

On 26/03/2020 at 21:29, NG899 said:

the photo of P9434 GR-U with the three pilots shows 92 Sqn's Blue Section, L-R - P/O Bob Holland, Flt/Lt Robert Stanford Tuck, P/O Allan Wright. It was taken at RAF circa 7 June at Hornchurch / Northolt. The GR-U which was in Paris (N3290) had been shot down and replaced by this aircraft which Tuck flew a lot from 7 June to 11 July.

from https://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/235069194-robert-stanford-tuck-new-questions/

 

 

so this is N3290

92  Squadron 05 by Сергей Кривицкий, on Flickr

 

The research rabbit hole can be a tricky one! 

[Zephyr91]

2 hours ago, Troy Smith said:

 

The research rabbit hole can be a tricky one! 

Thanks Troy, indeed it can.   I really value your deep knowledge of all this.

 

I was aware from reading around that there had been discussions about whether various photos of GRoU were the same aircraft.  These examples are so close together in time ( P9434 (7th June ish) and N3290 at Le Bourget (16th May)) that it clearly indicates that an eyes-wide-open   approach is required.  I don't mind being called nerdy 🙂 . 

 

In this build, I was just checking that I wasn't going to create a major faux-pas.  When skills improve I may get worried about more details.  But not yet ........ onward and upward, as the saying goes.

 

In terms of model progress, I have the first coat of night applied.  More photos when i'v got more to show

 

Thanks again,

.

Keep well eveyone

 

cheers

 

Rob

[Zephyr91]

Hi.  Quick update with a bit of progress to report.

 

 

First proper coat of dark earth applied.  Needs more.   And the big issue is the version on the right.  Although the camera has distorted the image a bit, until I saw it I hadn't realised that I seem to have messed up the cowling by over-zealous sanding.  I was determined to get rid of the wretched joint line and in so doing seem to have made it a very flat deck in front of the fuel filler hole.     I don't have the will to try and correct it at this stage so will just put it down to experience and just practice applying paint etc. 

 

Not really highlighting them, but to prove I haven't binned them, in the background are the much maligned and mangled wheels. 🙂  

 

I've also been having a go at the exhausts.   Although it won't be seen I've had a go at drilling them out so they look a little more finessed ( but not much!) - all a good exercise in eye-strain and suppression of hand tremors.    I've also been applying various hues to try and get that oily steel-cum blue-cum burnt metal-cum rust sort of colour a bit like in the photos posted by @Troy Smith above. 

 

Also, am thinking ahead to getting the DG patterns on.  I know all these things seem basic, but because I haven't done this for so long it just isn't second nature so I have to think it through.   But I have a cunning plan   .......

 

Stay well, and thanks for looking

 

Rob.

 

PS.  The news today about the Turkey and Syria earthquakes is awful.  Having worked closely with some Turkish colleagues over 4 years from 2015, and having a little knowledge of the place, made it seem more real and horrible somehow.    I know there are lots of things going on that need it as well, but please spare a thought if you can..... R