Rookie Errors Revisited - First Build for 36 Years with apologies to Spitfire fans (finished)

[Zephyr91]

INTRO

 

The last time I stuck plastic was about 36 years ago before family and work pushed my aircraft habit to one side.  But I was fortunate to be working with aircraft so wasn't feeling too deprived!    Now I have time on my hands I was casting about and came across this fantastick    forum.  I've had an enjoyable last 8 months rediscovering my stash and logging it for future reference - mostly RAF and Luftwaffe from WW1 to end of WW2 with examples mostly from Airfix, Matchbox, Italeri and Revell and a small number of Heller/Humbrol, Hasegawa and Fujimi.

 

Whilst that was fun, i have also been mesmerised by the fantastic builds and discusions and debates from all the experienced guys and girls from whom I've learned a lot.  Strangely my stash has increased by 4 Spitfires, a Defiant, a Hurricane and  a Fiat CR 42!!  It's all your fault for being so inspirational!   BUT now it's time to try and put it into practice after being encouraged to do so by responses to my tentative postings.

 

This will be by way of being a "Starter for 10" (sorry to non-uk people who won't know this as a catchphrase from a well known quiz programme) and to see to where we might get.  Hopefully by throwing myself on the populace I, and other similar tyros, can learn something and in return provide a few giggles of the "Ha yes, I did that!" type at the disasters that will inevitabley occur ........ 🤪

 

To Business

 

If you've not nodded off yet thanks,  I will be attempting a Spitfire Mk1 as I do like the year 1940.  This will be my recurring theme (assuming I last beyond this build!! 🙂 ) .    Oh go on, be ambitious!  I'm actually doing 2 Spitfires!!

 

As a nod to my previous experience I thought I'd compare the 1980 tooling/1986 boxing with a newer generation 2010 tooling/ 2018 boxing.

 

The intention here is to do these OOB but I might try and see if we can't create mayhem and mess by adding a few bits as we go along....

 

Well at least I think I might have managed ot start a topic.........so thats the first thing done! 🙂

 

Thanks for looking,

 

Rob

[f111guru]

Got a front row seat. I'll watch with interest. Mistakes and errors, let them flow as we all have learned from them.

 

All The Best,

Ron VanDerwarker

[billn53]

Welcome aboard! Your experience sounds very much like my own — away from modeling for decades, and rediscovering it only recently. I like to think that with maturity comes more attention to accuracy and level of detail. Good luck with your Spits, and feel free to ask away with any questions.

- Bill

[Zephyr91]

Thanks Ron, hope it doesn't get too stodgy - this I mean.  I'm new at posting so the style may have to evolve as we go along!

 

Looking at the kit contents from the old and the new it struck me that there were far fewer bits in the older kit.  But the older one looked a bit "crisper" with very little flash evident.  To my surprise the newer one had quite a bit of this around the smaller fiddlier bits - ooh heck.  Duly noted. 

 

 

Very sparse in the cockpit so decided that I could use the newer model as an example of how I might make the cabin look a little busier.

 

 

So okay, the newer one has more detail.  Decided to slap some paint on and see how it looked.  

 

At this point I need to explain that I'm not only rusty in construction techniques, but my enamel paints are the same age as my older stash items - 36 to 40 years old!   🥴

 

Lessons 1, 2 etc 

- old paints can be used but the mixing time is long!  Using a bamboo cocktail stick gave me cramp after 5 or 6 minutes.  It felt like self-harm after a while

- old paint sometimes doesn't end up as it used to - check out the chrome plating effect as opposed to dull silver/aluminium it was supposed to be

- remember to read the label - just 'cos it says "interior green" doesn't mean it's for RAF aircraft - double 

 

So I've done a bit more re-painting  -  after getting a new tin of "aluminium dope" and selecting the correct green - this could take a while.  But I am enjoying it really.

 

Thanks for looking

 

Rob

[Zephyr91]

9 minutes ago, billn53 said:

Welcome aboard! Your experience sounds very much like my own — away from modeling for decades, and rediscovering it only recently. I like to think that with maturity comes more attention to accuracy and level of detail. Good luck with your Spits, and feel free to ask away with any questions.

- Bill

Thanks for the encouragement.  My intent to model more detail is there but that is probably way above ability.......I'm not joking! 🙂

 

Rob

[AdrianMF]

Welcome aboard!

 

Frankly, the canopies on the Airfix Spitfires allow you to see next to nothing, so I wouldn't sweat the interior too much, especially for a comeback model. If you are adding the pilot, that goes double.

 

That's obviously "do as I say, not as we do" but TBH often the only time anyone will ever see your cockpit detail is if you post up an in-progress shot. 
 

Exhibit A, M'lud:

and Exhibit B:

 

Can you see any of the detail I spent an afternoon making and painting in this FROG Spitfire? Nope, me neither...

 

The time you save can be more productively applied to making your seams tight and as near invisible as you can manage, because that really makes a difference to the look of the finished model.

 

Looking forward to your builds, with or without cockpits!

 

Regards,

Adrian

 

[Johnson]

Welcome. Both kits make very nice Spitfires, a great way to begin.

 

Cheers,

[Zephyr91]

Thanks @AdrianMF and @Johnson that's very helpful.

 

UNFORTUNATELY I've pre-empted Adrian's expert advice and started copying what he did in the very post he was using as an example of what not to both with!   To quote an old saying "you can lead a horse to water but you can't make it drink".  

 

This might sound a bit  but I thought that because nothing would be seen if it all got joined up, that I could practise pretending to be a modeller, muck about a bit, then hide all my misdemeanours 🙂 .  So thank you very much for the advice.  This  may just turn out to be the definitive ................ "don't do it this way" but it's all about having fun, pushing boundaries, etc..   and making others laugh their socks off (or at least have chuckle).

 

Rob

[Zephyr91]

So whilst I embark on a hopelessly ambitious attempt to replicate what @AdrianMF suggested I didn't, with a tremendous amount of optimism and thinking ahead, I turned to looking at the box colour schemes and decals.  

 

As mentioned the older ones are 1986 vintage but look potentially ok. -  they've been in the loft but reasonably dry and totally out of the light.   So that was ok in principle until I got them fully out of the packaging.  One of my adult daughters was passing (she can actually tell a Spitfire from a Cessna  bless her) and commented "Ooh! Those targets look a bit wonky!".  Targets?!!?   I think she was referring to the A1's

 

But she has a point - exhibit X

 

 

 

I've also seen some discussions hereabouts on this particular a/c and the yellow blob on the sheet is not really a good enough attempt at the very british looking "two fingers through a swastika" marking.   With these as an excuse, and with a need to build a suitable future set of projects,  I located an Xtradecal sheet with the same scheme and am awaiting delivery......but don't tell the domestic accounts dept or there could be trubble with a T.  We don't need too close an inspection of the hobby spend profile just at this time!

 

Thanks

 

Rob

[Johnson]

7 minutes ago, Zephyr91 said:

Ooh! Those targets look a bit wonky!

I'd forgotten what early Airfix decals were like (made this kit with my daughter about 30 years ago). It's now thought that the circle/nasty symbol/fingers etc was a light blue colour. 

[AdrianMF]

1 hour ago, Zephyr91 said:

all about having fun, pushing boundaries, etc

Exactly!

 

Don't forget to take a picture before you close it up! 

 

Regards,

Adrian

  

[Keeff]

From one returner to another .... it looks like you're doing OK.

 

I've rediscovered the joys, frustration, eye strain and dented bank balance as a result of buying new paints and tools in the the last year and have tried a few things out .... with mixed successes! 

 

The main thing is enjoy and take the learning from one kit to the next ..... and you'll get plenty of advice/guidance/feedback here!  

 

Keith  

[bigbadbadge]

Crikey the old one brings back some memories,  welcome and good luck with your builds, it is all about enjoyment and we all make mistakes too.  Great start.

Chris

[Zephyr91]

7 hours ago, bigbadbadge said:

Crikey the old one brings back some memories, 

Ha! for a moment there I thought you were talking about me!!      Many thanks for your, and others above, kind encouragement. 

 

Will do what I can....

 

cheers

 

Rob

[Zephyr91]

So, cockpit interiors.   Well, despite all the good advice I had a go anyway - and rather enjoyed it.   The result is not so much a scale model as a vague representation, but it won't be seen and I have the satisfaction of knowing it's there. 

 

As you can see above in the sprue shots, the old one has almost zero detail.  So what I decided to do was use the new one as a template of sorts whilst also looking at Adrian's Spitfire XIV build pics for inspiration.   I also have a plan/drawings dated 1977 by A Grainger in an Aerodata International publication titled "Classic Fighters and Bombers of World War II".   Not sure of how well these are regarded, but a quick check on the plan against published span and length for Mk I / II were almost spot on, so good enough for me.   The drawings rather helpfully include fuselage cross-sections for 12 stations along the fuse.  So i was able to use the appropriate ones to make some rudimentary frames out of some old plasticard I had (32p from Beatties in Leeds circa 1978😱 - it still has the price sticker ).

 

The upshot was this

 

 

Clearly they are not the same, but I have most of the main bits in the old version now including some side-wall detail where almost nothing existed before.    I know they're there, even though the bits won't be seen.   A wonderfully futile but therapeutic exercise .   The only bits I added to the new model were the seat belts made from masking tape with drawn on suggestions of fastenings.  Learning from the old one I made the belts in the new one much thinner.

 

Despite only having a rudimentary seat, the old kit did actually include a gunsight amazingly.  A bit chunky but it is something that can actually be seen through the glazing.   More about this anon.

 

Now having been warned about checking fit of the fuselage on the new version on numerousl threads (again @AdrianMF and also @Troy Smith and others) I this time listened and did lots of dry fitting etc.  It really helped but threw up something of which I was not fully aware.  When trying to fit parts of the old kit together there seemed to be some very big locating lugs which would have required quite some pressure to force together.  Hmm.  The same was apparent for the main wing parts when I had a quick look at them.  Hmmm again.   Look at the destructions (apologies to @Heather Kay for using that) if all else fails.........

 

  hey ho.  Always something new......     I don't recall ever having heard of a "Snap 'n' Glue" kit when I did this stuff before.  🙂

  So I took off the chunkier locators and found it all sat reasonably together including my dodgy new bits -  so i hastily glued the old one together.   BIG problem. 

 

Lesson 10 ish - Never do anything hastily.  

 

Dolt that I am, I managed to apply a brushfull of liquid poly all over the external surface of the starboard side of the fin whilst intending to have put it on the inside but for some reason I sneezed at the critical moment and ..........  🤧.   To make matters worse, I didn't realise 'til too late that I'd put my thumb on it.   As I said before

 

So I went for a walk around the block to recover a modicum of sang-froid.   What? Me? Sang-froid?    But feeling a bit better I decided to ignore it for a while.  Classic coping strategy .. .............

 

This brings me back to the previously mentioned chunky gunsight.  It was that way because it was "Snap 'n' Glue"!     A whacking great (relatively) hole where the IP was supposed to be, was where to locate it.   BUT in a brilliant (and possibly lazy) way to get an IP into the old kit I had previously photo-copied the decal from the new one onto thin paper then glued that in - obstructing said hole for the sight.   No matter, I fettled it and stuck it in - not without some difficulty it has to be said.......

 

 

 

  Only the wrong way around!  Good grief!       So I corrected that : and it's now only slightly askew, but I figured it would help the pilot with off-bore-sight or deflection shots

 

If you've got this far, well done.  Marks for Persistence & Tenacity........ 🙂

 

Thanks for looking

 

Rob

[Troy Smith]

1 hour ago, Zephyr91 said:

I know they're there, even though the bits won't be seen.   A wonderfully futile but therapeutic exercise .   The only bits I added to the new model were the seat belts made from masking tape with drawn on suggestions of fastenings.  Learning from the old one I made the belts in the new one much thinner.

 

Despite only having a rudimentary seat, the old kit did actually include a gunsight amazingly.  A bit chunky but it is something that can actually be seen through the glazing.

Fantastic write up Rob

 

I'm a big fan of warts and the odd disaster build,   because I see a lot of new member intros who are returnees or just getting more interested,  and there are some quite intimidating builders,  in skill and tools/materials used.   

So a honest 'not done this in years and here's how it went' build is great,  as it shows others that they can post up a build and learn in public in s supportive environment.

 I go in fits and starts, and really have not completed many builds,  I see you have discovered one of those things not always pointed out, see what is visible through the canopy before going overboard on detail.  

You may find my Spitfire XIX build of interest/amusement. 

https://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/235073488-spitfire-pr-xix-airfix-72nd-as-i-thought-it-would-be-easy/

 

If nothing else for a simple way to do the wheel wells.   One other thing,  a simple dark wash and light dry brush can really make detail 'pop'. 

 

I see you have  found @AdrianMF who makes tarting up old kits looks easy, but does explain and illustrate techniques well,  like representative cockpits from scratch, that work very well, but when you see the breakdown are as much about 'seeing' how to create the parts reasonably simply. 

 

On the subject of techniques and the like, the first one that I completed

https://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/235052380-hurricane-airfix-72nd-fabric-wing-mki-oob/

 

anyway.

 

HTH

[Zephyr91]

Troy, @Troy Smith many thanks for your kind words.  Much appreciated.   The links to your builds are great.  Lots of technique to ponder there for when I get around to applying filler and paint.  I have been reading others as well, but really just need to get on and try it for myself.

 

Mind you, it's the filling and filing that seems a big challenge to me, particularly if I have to replace sanded off (or dissolved off with excess liquid poly as above ) detail features 

 

But that's for tomorrow.

 

cheers

 

Rob

[AdrianMF]

7 hours ago, Zephyr91 said:

If you've got this far, well done.

Cockpit looks great Rob. Shame you won't be able to see it! 
 

Gluey fingerprints or spills are no problem - do nothing (going for a walk is perfect), let the glue dry thoroughly and give it a light sanding. I have at least one per model

 

Regards,

Adrian

[Dunny]

Rob,

 

Welcome back to the hobby - I myself only picked it up again after a 30-odd year gap and find it a great antidote to life, along with the inspiration and friendship of this great forum. Your daughter was certainly right about the wonky roundels!

On 27/01/2023 at 06:27, Zephyr91 said:

But she has a point - exhibit X

 

 

It could just be the photo, but to me the proportions of the wing roundels also look a little 'off' - i.e. the red portion looks too large. Might be worth sourcing some aftermarket decals if the budget allows? I look forward to more of your journey of discovery,

 

Cheers,

 

Roger

 

 

 

 

[Zephyr91]

7 hours ago, AdrianMF said:

Cockpit looks great Rob. Shame you won't be able to see it! 
 

Gluey fingerprints or spills are no problem - do nothing (going for a walk is perfect), let the glue dry thoroughly and give it a light sanding. I have at least one per model

 

Regards,

Adrian

Thanks Adrian.  Will try and improve for next time.  I delieberately didn't get too close with the camera so 😉 it could be worse than observed .....

 

I will have a go at the sanding.   But I really am a bit ham-fisted with this facet of the hobby.  So approach it wiith trepidation .....

 

6 hours ago, Dunny said:

It could just be the photo, but to me the proportions of the wing roundels also look a little 'off' - i.e. the red portion looks too large. Might be worth sourcing some aftermarket decals if the budget allows? I look forward to more of your journey of discovery,

 

Thanks Roger.  Encouragement much appreciated.  And I certainly concur with the supportiveness of the community here.

 

I think you're correct about the bigger roundels - it's not just my bad photography!   Will scout around for alternatives.  I'll use these on some scrap somewhere for practice application.   Somebody said use a mule.  But, assuming I could catch it, I think roundels on an equine could look rather eccentric!    

 

cheers for now.

 

Rob

[Fritag]

Lovely thread Rob.  I’ve enjoyed your posts on my builds and it’s great to watch this double build develop.  Has a feeling of familiarity about it in the sense that it reminds me of first doing a WIP in not dissimilar circumstances 10 years ago; and getting lots of help and encouragement from the BM hive.

 

 

Edited January 28, 2023 by Fritag
typo

[2996 Victor]

Hi Rob and welcome from me, too!

 

Great intro and builds, and as a returnee a few years ago I can only echo everyone else's sentiments. Adrian, Troy and Chris, and of course many other members, all produce fab builds and offer great and sage advice.

 

Looking forward to seeing your progress, and the cockpits look great! I'm another one who goes mad on the  unseen (and then I wonder why modelling takes so long!) so go with it! It's all good practice

 

All the very best,

Mark

[bigbadbadge]

Great work on the cockpits Rob, you've done really well there, you'll Soon have these knocked into shape.

Keep up the good work

Chris

 

[Zephyr91]

Well, you guys are wonderful.  Thanks so much for the encouragement.  I hope I can contuinue to amuse, and in turn provide encouragement to others when they need it.

 

@Fritag Mr Friday (ha, bet noone's ever said that before 🤣 ) I notice on your profile picture the business end of a Jaguar.  Not in this forum, but I would welcome a natter some time about things aeroplaney.  Jaguar was one of the projects i claim to have done a small amount of work on in Aerodynamics and would appreciate an in-service view to compare with my experience.

 

38 minutes ago, 2996 Victor said:

.... many other members, all produce fab builds and offer great and sage advice.

 

 

Mark, thanks for the advice.   Before taking the plunge here I have done a bit of lurking about and I know what you mean.  So many brill examples to follow.

 

 

ANYWAY, to the next bit of business.  Need to produce stuff for people to actually look at.....

 

Having closed the older one and dry fitted the newer one, I have come across 2 issues to raise to the populace. 

 

Now I'm not going to be a rivet counter, (all power to those people but I just haven't the patience) but I do like things to generally "look right" and am prepared to have a go at correcting any outline issues if bad enough AND within my ability to do something about. 

 

So one of the things I've been doing is comparing the old and the new against plans etc.    In wing plan, the 2 models look remarkably close to me - indeed I could almost swap the sets between the 2 and it could be made to work fairly easily.  But then I thought, can I interchange the glazing?  No!  😱  the newer one looks bigger and wider. 

 

Thinks: look at the fuselage plan.   So they are slightly different forward of the aerial post hole!  Tiny difference but the newer is slightly wider right up to the nose by perhaps a millimetre.    If anything, the older matches THIS plan (I don't claim to have a definitive one I should re-iterate) slightly better.   

 

Now this is one of those things that I will not be tempted to correct as it is minor and doesn't really affect the overall look, but I just wondered what are the collective thoughts about this?     Just quick thoughts, cos as I said, its; minor for me.   In side view they both look ok imo.

Picture to try and illustrate this but my photography skills are low .......

 

 

 

 

I then wondered, did this do anything to the wing root area that might have a knock-on effect to  the wing itself?  My answer is - I can't see that it does.   BUT  in looking at  this I found that the wings of the older kit have "an issue".  Whether dry-fitted to the fuse or not, the dihedral is wrong (it's not being forced out of kilter by the wing root on the fuse), and this DOES affect the look.   So I'm having a think around this - always try self-help first if I can, but if anyone has dealt with a similar problem I'd appreciate tips please.   

 

The problem seems to be in the the way it was moulded or stored.  probably the former.   Either way it's symmetrical and looks from the front to be about half what it should be - compared to drawings and the newer kit.

 

I'll go and think ont for a bit

 

Thanks for looking

 

Rob

[Zephyr91]

OK.  Having thunk a bit (no, thats not my head hitting the table )  I have cunning plan A.   The following photo attempts to show the extent of the problem (newer above, older below)

 

 

With lots of dry fitting and a bit of tentative sanding around the wing root area, I think if I hold the wings in place whilst the glue sets I can force it to have a better dihedral.  It doesn't seem to need much pursuasion to adopt a better shape, but it does mean everthing is under a bit of tension - which could all go sproing at some stage - but I'm going to give it a try as this is the least drastic approach to start with!   🙂  Coward! I hear a shout .........

 

Meanwhile, whilst I prevaricate a bit longer, I have had a go at adding sidewalls to the older undercarriage bay.  It's all @Troy Smith's fault!   I followed his link and saw how he'd done it.  Strangely my attempt is not as neat as his    

 

 

.....and I covered the starboard one as it really is ugly! 

 

And during further prevarication over the wing thing, I have started trying to tidy up the fuselage joints.  Apart from the seams there are also some sink marks on the cowling of the older one.   I'd contemplated trying to pass them off as dents from wear & tear (that well known department store) but decided it wasn't on.   More later ......

 

Thanks for looking

 

Rob