Two 190 Builds (Part One): Eduard 1/48 A-3 JG51 Ljuban September 1942 ***FINISHED***

[Retired Bob]

11 minutes ago, Ray_W said:

 did they use greys? 

The areas on the tail and in front of the windscreen look grey to me, they generally used grey, brown and various greens.  Then there's the other option. 

[81-er]

She's looking good, Ray! I'm really hoping I can get a filler-free build on mine too

 

James

[Sanjuro]

Fit is great with this kit.

The real problem comes with the decals.....

But maybe it also depends on which edition you get

[Ray_W]

20 hours ago, 81-er said:

She's looking good, Ray! I'm really hoping I can get a filler-free build on mine too

 

On final inspection, I did put a sliver of filler on the underside tailplane root. Used my favourite filler for this purpose. Mixed up a tiny seed of Milliput Superfine. Apply with a toothpick and clean-up with a moist cotton bud. No sanding. No shrinkage. You will also see the sprayed and lightly sanded Mr Finishing Surfacer also improves the joints. 🤔 Mmmm ... close-up photos are good. I must replace the rivets and panel lines on that underside.

 

 

Masking is underway. Wheels wells are tissue paper tamped down with a moist cotton bud and then cover the overlaps and any missed locations with Gunze Mr Masking Sol. The Masking Sol makes the mask robust for spraying and the tissue can be made to conform nicely.

 

 

I do have questions regarding the electrical connection trough. Was it used on the A-3 or only latter variants? Eduard make no mention of it in the instructions (that I can find). Should it be filled or detailed more like this? This is electrical and fuel.

 

 

@Retired Bob  @81-er I have decided to go with the colour image of this aircraft as genuine. Whether the colour shifts from development and printing are correct is another matter. I based my decision on some red details that anyone doing colourisation would have a been a genius to think to include.

 

On the undercarriage there is a hint of red in two positions and also different hues.

 

 

 

Looking at WW2 FW-190 relics the outer rim of the wheel often wore down to the red primer like so:

 

 

Second, the red on the strut brake line. This is not as convincing as the wheel because of lack of genuine replicas, although, looking at some images, it would be possible. Anyway, interesting choice by someone doing colourisation to include red at this position.

 

 

Finally, and yes, it is possible for an expert to think red on the step and aerial, but to my mind this application is too obscure to be post-edited.

 

 

Of course I could be proven wrong, but it does give me a basis for the paint job. 

 

12 hours ago, Sanjuro said:

But maybe it also depends on which edition you get

 

I purposely avoided the latest kits, that have the new decal process, choosing the new tool FW 190's before its introduction. I have weakened though and also just picked up their F-8. 

 

Ray

 

[Retired Bob]

5 hours ago, Ray_W said:

I do have questions regarding the electrical connection trough. Was it used on the A-3 or only latter variants? Eduard make no mention of it in the instructions (that I can find). Should it be filled or detailed more like this? This is electrical and fuel.

Hi Ray, had a quick look through my reference material regarding this.  The first version of the FW to have the ability to be fitted with a centre line pylon for fuel tank or weapons was the A-3 version, now this was identical externally to the A-2 (the only difference was the BMW engine changing from the 801C-2 to the 801D-2)  Eduard use the same wings/fuselage parts for both the A- and A-3 aircraft.  Working on that information the connection trough should be there  on an A-3 but not on an A-2, photos of that part of the airframe on operational A-2/A-3 aircraft are rare (like unicorn droppings rare) I think it's one of those cases of it's up to the modeller.  I'm going to fill it on my A-2 build.

 

5 hours ago, Ray_W said:

@Retired Bob  @81-er I have decided to go with the colour image of this aircraft as genuine. Whether the colour shifts from development and printing are correct is another matter. I based my decision on some red details that anyone doing colourisation would have a been a genius to think to include.

Seems like a well researched decision to me, go with it. 

[Sanjuro]

Although there were two small series with the A-2/U3 and A-2/U4 with the ETC501. But probably only for testing. 

As said before, the A-3 was the first series with the ETC501.

 

The original manual for the A-4/A-5 shows a cover plate for the connection trough:

 

 

A picture of the cover plate for an Fw 190A-8:    Paris_Le_Bourget_Focke-Wulf_Fw_190_A-8

 

  

 

Nevertheless, no cover is probably the right choice for the A-3.

 

 

 

[Ray_W]

3 minutes ago, Sanjuro said:

no cover is probably the right choice for the A-3.

Thanks very much for the info.

[Mukund SB]

Hi @Ray_W You have got solid research and images to back up your theory. Go for it. Looking forward to see this with paint 🤩

[PeterB]

With regards to the green camo I have had my say in my own build thread - AFAIK they painted over the standard 74/75/76 finish so the undersides would be 76 not 65. The greens could be 70/71, but there is also the suggestion that the old pre-war 61/62 were still around, perhaps in use to camouflage buildings so Merrick thinks 62 may be a possibility, and then there is some feeling that they might have used captured Russian paint. Also, if as some suggest the brown used on some planes was in fact RLM 79 then maybe they also had got hold of stocks of RLM 80. In the end it is entirely your choice and nobody can say you are wrong - I have not made my mind up yet on what I will use and will have to carry out some test painting.

 

Pete

Edited February 2, 2023 by PeterB

[Retired Bob]

7 hours ago, Sanjuro said:

Nevertheless, no cover is probably the right choice for the A-3.

Probably put some stretched sprue/plastic rod to represent fuel/electrical connections instead of holes.

[Ray_W]

8 hours ago, PeterB said:

With regards to the green camo I have had my say in my own build thread - AFAIK they painted over the standard 74/75/76 finish so the undersides would be 76 not 65. The greens could be 70/71, but there is also the suggestion that the old pre-war 61/62 were still around, perhaps in use to camouflage buildings so Merrick thinks 62 may be a possibility, and then there is some feeling that they might have used captured Russian paint. Also, if as some suggest the brown used on some planes was in fact RLM 79 then maybe they also had got hold of stocks of RLM 80. In the end it is entirely your choice and nobody can say you are wrong - I have not made my mind up yet on what I will use and will have to carry out some test painting.

 

Just about to start the colour coats with only two colours firmed up RLM 76 and RLM 70. I do have my nice black undercoat complete. The usual Black Mr Finishing Surfacer 1500 thinned with Mr Color Leveling Thinner.

 

 

I am first painting the standard scheme 74, 75, and 76. Consider it practice for my next build, which will be in the standard scheme. Also a good base for what was done when the "greens" were applied. 

 

Just to add a little more confusion, when you study the image you will see the right hand side of the page is a darker tint then the left hand side at what seems a page join. It coincides with what is typically shown as a demarcation line between the darker and lighter greens. It may be just a result of the printing process. 

 

 

I do not think this was a neat application of the greens. 

 

Anyway, let the fun begin. 

 

7 hours ago, Retired Bob said:

Probably put some stretched sprue/plastic rod to represent fuel/electrical connections instead of holes.

 

A simple suggestion and a good one.

 

Ray

[Mukund SB]

I always liked how the model looks at this stage...... 🤩

[Ray_W]

31 minutes ago, Mukund SB said:

I always liked how the model looks at this stage

I agree Mukund. A nice milestone to reach.

 

Ray

 

 

 

 

 

[Ray_W]

I was able to get some of the colour coats in place in anticipation of some more painting over the weekend. Gunze's Mr Color C117 for the RLM76 and C113 for the RLM04. Used the black base to give a little subtle variation in the 76.  

 

 

The narrow rear yellow band will be painted over and is to remain faintly visible.  I think the finish of the mid-fuselage band is a bit like invasion strips (why were these not called liberation stripes?) - how rough should you make it for an accurate replica?

 

 

I will go some way down the path to achieve this look:

 

 

Ray

 

[Sanjuro]

Wait, wait, wait......

I think your picture shows also the aileron in yellow. At least to my eyes.

 

Sorry, i don't mean to be picky 🙂

 

 

12 hours ago, Ray_W said:

 

I do not think this was a neat application of the greens. 

 

Anyway, let the fun begin. 

 

 

A simple suggestion and a good one.

 

Ray

 

[modelling minion]

This is well on the way to being another of your masterpieces Ray.

Great work on the cockpit mate, really nice.

The colours of these aircraft have long been the subject of debate and as has been pointed out to you it is impossible for anyone to tell you with complete certainty that you are wrong but as usual your research makes perfect sense to me and I look forward to seeing more progress.

You know I have a soft spot for winter camo schemes so I hope you get to the F-8 too.

 

🇺🇦

[Corsairfoxfouruncle]

On 2/2/2023 at 11:21 PM, Ray_W said:

 

Just about to start the colour coats with only two colours firmed up RLM 76 and RLM 70. I do have my nice black undercoat complete. The usual Black Mr Finishing Surfacer 1500 thinned with Mr Color Leveling Thinner.

 

 

I am first painting the standard scheme 74, 75, and 76. Consider it practice for my next build, which will be in the standard scheme. Also a good base for what was done when the "greens" were applied. 

 

Just to add a little more confusion, when you study the image you will see the right hand side of the page is a darker tint then the left hand side at what seems a page join. It coincides with what is typically shown as a demarcation line between the darker and lighter greens. It may be just a result of the printing process. 

 

 

I do not think this was a neat application of the greens. 

 

Anyway, let the fun begin. 

 

 

A simple suggestion and a good one.

 

Ray

If memory serve's, the photo has been copied from an old book and thus the odd line. There was a discussion a few years ago in WW2 aviation about this and other photo’s. The thinking is that the original is either lost or held without permission to print. So everyone and your uncle Bob has recopied the photo from an old book. 

Edited February 4, 2023 by Corsairfoxfouruncle

[Ray_W]

11 hours ago, Sanjuro said:

Sorry, i don't mean to be picky

 

Not picky at all. In fact, I agree with you. Thanks for the input. I will correct this.

 

You can see the dividing line with the yellow under the aileron. Even more clearly seen in the full-size image. Also, on close inspection, it appears to show a faint (overpainted?) letter "E". I may not include this detail. RLM 04 going into the airbrush now to correct the ailerons. Would of made the prior masking easier 

 

 

10 hours ago, modelling minion said:

This is well on the way to being another of your masterpieces Ray.

Great work on the cockpit mate, really nice.

The colours of these aircraft have long been the subject of debate and as has been pointed out to you it is impossible for anyone to tell you with complete certainty that you are wrong but as usual your research makes perfect sense to me and I look forward to seeing more progress.

You know I have a soft spot for winter camo schemes so I hope you get to the F-8 too.

 

Thanks Craig for the usual kind remarks. I am having a lot of fun researching this particular subject. Also, looking forward to the F-8 and the A-8 for that matter. 

 

9 hours ago, Corsairfoxfouruncle said:

If memory serve's, the photo has been copied from an old book and thus the odd line. There was a discussion a few years ago in WW2 aviation about this and other photo’s. The thinking is that the original is either list or held without permission to print. So everyone and Bob has recopied the photo from an old book. 

 

Thanks Col. I did find the FalkeEins discussion on this image and nothing else at the moment. I expect that when I finish the build some new information will come to light. Often the case. In the meantime, best guess principles are in play.

 

Ray

[Ray_W]

Finished painting the Fw 190 in the standard scheme. Very tempting to choose another subject, stick on some decals, and call it done.

 

 

But no, let's push on and make it green. First of all corrected the aileron yellow per @Sanjuro 's earlier post. Also photographed it on a white background to try and capture the actual colours.

 

 

Then into the RLM 70 and 71 finish. All paints are Gunze's  Mr Color. I wanted to breathe a little life into the surface finish with thin and variable coats. Trying to achieve a field applied and weathered finish. A good basis for later.

 

 

And I am happy with the result. Well on its way.

 

 

A little more detail painting to come.

 

Ray

[franky boy]

Looks great Ray. 

 

Its good to see a 190 in greens rather than greys. 

 

James

[modelling minion]

Excellent job on the painting Ray it looks really good.

It takes a brave man to paint over the superb job you did on the original 74/75 upper surfaces but you have pulled it off.

 

🇺🇦

[Ray_W]

41 minutes ago, franky boy said:

Its good to see a 190 in greens rather than greys. 

 

Thanks James. I also like the change.

 

I painted the cowling underside with a RLM 02 and 04 mix. It gives a salmon orange like the image. Seems a logical mix for the time. Under the photo lighting it appears too orange. Not too bad with the naked eye. A fraction less yellow and it would be perfect. I'll fade it with the weathering.

 

 

 

8 minutes ago, modelling minion said:

looks really good

 

Thanks Craig, I'm actually enjoying the challenge to make it look right. I'll apply a gloss coat next and decal and then flat coat and the real fun starts - weathering the surfaces.

 

Ray

[Retired Bob]

It's looking really good Ray, some impressive detective work to sort out the camouflage scheme. 

[Sanjuro]

8 hours ago, Retired Bob said:

.... some impressive detective work to sort out the camouflage scheme. 

Isn't that part of the fun ?  😄

[Ray_W]

2 hours ago, Sanjuro said:

Isn't that part of the fun ?

Certainly is. Having a subject to study and replicate is the fun.