Troy Smith Posted April 9 Share Posted April 9 34 minutes ago, Fritag said: TBH before I started reading Don Evans book I didn’t even really know what a target ‘sleeve’ was, Glad it is of use, I did manage to find my copy, and had a quick flick though, and it did occur that to an actual fighter pilot it would be quite an interesting insight into an area that perhaps they take for granted? On my quick browse, I didn't spot there was some useful technical gen in there for you to work with. I got it as I was looking into the Hawker Henley a while back, being the close cousin of the Hurricane. You should see if one of the AM chaps want to make set of you bits available for general use, it would be a boon as the CA Defiant TT kit is long OOP, and I don't recall having as much detail, and the printed bits look gorgeous! keep up the good work cheers T 8 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
perdu Posted April 10 Share Posted April 10 9 hours ago, Fritag said: And that’s sort of where she’s at just now. Er W O W ! I know and understand there has been a shift change in 'normal' recently but somehow, the results you have introduced make it another shift up a gear. Or two. The whole of the previous update spells it's a kind of magic to me. I love the journey you are taking us on Steve, just, in case you missed it, WOW! This ladies and gentlemen is the March Of The Fusioneers. And I love it. (Noises off.. did you notice how he can do all this alchemy then finish the magic with impeccable, inspirational paint works too?) 8 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
giemme Posted April 10 Share Posted April 10 I don't know, I'm still looking at the winch and its deck, and thinking "What the...." So I'll just add my to what Bill @perdu said. Sure, it would be good if by page 10 he had actually glued some bits together, but the guy also has a regular day job.... Ciao 2 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dunny Posted April 10 Share Posted April 10 Impressive work Steve - that winch is a real thing of beauty, Cheers, Roger 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
perdu Posted April 10 Share Posted April 10 21 minutes ago, giemme said: Sure, it would be good if by page 10 he had actually glued some bits together, but the guy also has a regular day job.... Ciao What? Cycling to the ski slopes? 9 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry1954 Posted April 10 Share Posted April 10 2 hours ago, perdu said: W O W ! 1 hour ago, giemme said: Might as well make it a threesome .................. WOW! Very impressive Steve. You get better at this stuff everytime I peek in here. Terry 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zephyr91 Posted April 10 Share Posted April 10 2 hours ago, perdu said: Er W O W ! I know and understand there has been a shift change in 'normal' recently but somehow, the results you have introduced make it another shift up a gear. Or two. The whole of the previous update spells it's a kind of magic to me. I love the journey you are taking us on Steve, just, in case you missed it, WOW! This ladies and gentlemen is the March Of The Fusioneers. And I love it. (Noises off.. did you notice how he can do all this alchemy then finish the magic with impeccable, inspirational paint works too?) My feelings exactly. So I add my as well. Before I retired from BAe I was shown around the manufacturing and design research and development area (made a change from Wind Tunnels). They were doing Virtual Assembly of parts before committing to making bits. On a 1:1 scale you could actually be immersed within the aircraft to check fit of parts and whether stores could be loaded effectively by ground crew etcc and checking the full Human-Machine interface. A whole range of uses but all stemming from CAD drawings not dissimilar to those exhibited here. All one needed was a pair of the correct goggles and you were transported! Brill stuff (once you'd got over the VR induced vertigo for which they had a bucket handy for newbies!!). I wonder if Steve could have a go at that sometime (no, no, not the !! 🙄) . Feel sure it what is produced here could be adapted ...... Just a thought Rob 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
general melchett Posted April 10 Share Posted April 10 Some great stuff going on here Steve, very impressive. I've started learning to use Fusion myself which will take up even more time that I don't have. Several of my modelling pals use it and keep informing me that I should pull my finger out and get to grips with the thing, blissfully unaware of my limitations. Still, the results are definitely worthwhile as you're proving here so I'll plod on. Looking forward to your Defiant progress. Better crack on with the B-26, methinks. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brandy Posted April 10 Share Posted April 10 4 hours ago, giemme said: the guy also has a regular day job.... Skiing...... Ian 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark.au Posted April 11 Share Posted April 11 I rather suspect that in my absence I’ve missed two or three holidays along with the creation of, among other things, cross heads in the fixing screws and the braided pattern of the winch’s wire rope. I’ll need to ease my way into this thread Steve, so not too many likes just yet as I’m concerned about the board software’s ability to process them. 2 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Troy Smith Posted April 11 Share Posted April 11 @Fritag Likely a bit late, but Scale Models June 1980 Had a build of the ancient Airfix kit, and set of what looked to be good plans. I can't recall if they covered the TT, but I think they did. My copy is, like many things "somewhere" in the house..... 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
81-er Posted April 12 Share Posted April 12 Yet more jaw dropping detail since I last looked in, Steve! Superb work on the winch. I thoroughly agree with Troy's suggestion of making these available to the public, even if it's just selling the print files somewhere, or having your own space on Shapeways market place. James 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gondor44 Posted April 15 Share Posted April 15 Performing my weekly catch up on this thread and decided to order the book of Target Towing as I intend to build a CCanberra TT 18 at some point as my first airshow was at RAF St. Mawgan back in the 70's when 7Sqn were based there flying them. Fantastic detail your producing with the 3-D print items Gondor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fritag Posted April 20 Author Share Posted April 20 (edited) Morning All, So it's been quiet on the thread but not entirely quiescent on the bench - more of which below. But first: On 4/9/2023 at 11:37 PM, Troy Smith said: Glad it is of use, I did manage to find my copy, and had a quick flick though, and it did occur that to an actual fighter pilot it would be quite an interesting insight into an area that perhaps they take for granted? Not only of use but a cracking good read as well. I particularly liked the idea of the 'snatch' launch involving a Canberra with a hook flying at 15' across an airfield to 'snatch' a target cable from between a couple of poles. Think Wapitis picking up Army communications in the desert in the 20s/30s only at jet speeds. Sporty On 4/15/2023 at 3:47 PM, Gondor44 said: Performing my weekly catch up on this thread and decided to order the book of Target Towing as I intend to build a CCanberra TT 18 at some point as my first airshow was at RAF St. Mawgan back in the 70's when 7Sqn were based there flying them. Canberra's get several mention and as I say, it's a good read. More of a use as information than a modelling reference - but well worth it. On 4/11/2023 at 9:15 PM, Troy Smith said: Likely a bit late, but Scale Models June 1980 ... Had a build of the ancient Airfix kit, and set of what looked to be good plans. I can't recall if they covered the TT, but I think they did. My copy is, like many things "somewhere" in the house..... Thanks Troy. I did have a quick google to see if I could find a digital copy. But couldn't and anyway then decided I didn't want to see anymore plans in case they disagreed with the two sets I already have - which also disagree with each other... On 4/10/2023 at 9:02 AM, giemme said: Sure, it would be good if by page 10 he had actually glued some bits together There has been gluing and this is still page 10. Just saying... On 4/10/2023 at 9:24 AM, perdu said: What? Cycling to the ski slopes? On 4/10/2023 at 1:46 PM, Brandy said: Skiing...... Ian Usual suspects... On 4/10/2023 at 12:55 PM, general melchett said: I've started learning to use Fusion myself which will take up even more time that I don't have. Several of my modelling pals use it and keep informing me that I should pull my finger out and get to grips with the thing, blissfully unaware of my limitations. Ha. If I can get this far in a little over a year then I'm expecting rocket-like progress from you, Andy Actually I think one important factor is whether you find you enjoy the CAD foir its own sake. I've no background in it but have enjoyed learning - and that kept me plugging away. On 4/11/2023 at 4:13 AM, mark.au said: I rather suspect that in my absence I’ve missed two or three holidays I think it's only one or two, Mark. Be fair... Ok so. I've been puzzling over the shape of the hole in the underside of the Defiant. As seen in photos and plans of the turret figther and so as moulded by Airfix it's a sort of pear shaped curved affair thus: But the internal photo that @AndyL posted earlier in the thread showed a straight sided 'launching hole' - which suggested it might have been modified for the TT, although the plans I have didn't reflect that. Anyways a bit of study of external photos seem to me to confirm that that hole is straight sided on the TT. And in this one you can see both a curved outline and a straight - suggesting that the hole outline has been altered. Both those photo's are consistent with the internal view - and good enough for me. Cue a bit of 'proper' modelling. Remove the kit hatch cover from where it's moulded in with the wing undersides. Cut in half and glue (see, G - gluing) into the fuselage. Draw and print a scribing template (from a diagram in one of my books that also shows a squareish hole) et voila - straight sides. A bit more thought and design and a little insert was produced to add detail to and tidy up the (w)hole area: The insert sticks out through the underneath of the hole thus: The idea being that once the fuselage is buttoned up and the insert securely glued in place, I'll sand the outside back to make a neat flush finish. Seemed like a good idea to finish off that section of the fuselage with some side-wall details. So there was now a target-stowage section sub assembly in the virtual world: That came into being in the real world thus: And which thankfully all fitted together as intended (please excuse the partially-primered thumbnail): Having seemingly had some success drawing fuselage side-wall detail - it then seemed like a good idea to finish off the operator's cockpit with some detail. The large flat square areas on each side are just mounting points for canvas bags that I plan to sculpt in the 'forms' environment of Fusion - once I've figured out how to do it that is. But they can wait a bit. The sidewall details also now exist in the real world: And that, with one or two exceptions such as the canvas bags and the swivel pulley for underneath the fuselage and anything I've forgottemn, completes the CAD work on the Fuselage for the TT conversion. On reflection it seemed a good idea to show as much of the internal work as possible and so I modified the Fuselage insert to have the operator's cockpit entry door open. As seen here with all the CAD on show: The door doesn't seem to be generally left open when the Defiant was parked. But it stands to reason it had to be open sometimes doesnt it... So I now had a whole bunch of bits: To further please Giorgio, I did some painting (albeit just some rattle can primer of the operator's cockpit area) and gluing (albeit just the sidewall details to the fuselage sides). Starboard details Port details And the target-stowage section sub assembly in position And at least some detail will be visible through the launching hole (with a torch ) And some of will also be visible from above, now that the cockpit door will be posed open. And that us all up to date. Edited April 20 by Fritag typos 34 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeteH1969 Posted April 20 Share Posted April 20 Great design and application of the printed parts. What tolerances do you use on the parts that are assembled to the other parts and then fitted to the fuselage. Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
general melchett Posted April 20 Share Posted April 20 Quote If I can get this far in a little over a year then I'm expecting rocket-like progress from you, Andy. Actually I think one important factor is whether you find you enjoy the CAD foir its own sake. I've no background in it but have enjoyed learning - and that kept me plugging away. Thanks for your faith Steve but snail-like would be more the case methinks. Yes, agreed, enjoying the process is paramount, it's rather like research, something I find as interesting as the modelling itself. I've been lucky enough to know some really talented CAD designers and haven't really had to think about doing the work myself, however I now feel I want to get to grips with the process, more for convenience than anything...ie, stop bothering them for 'just once more little item, honest'...Luckily, I tend to pick things up reasonably quickly as was the case with the printing process so there's still hope. I'll get stuck in and see what breaks loose..... 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
giemme Posted April 20 Share Posted April 20 It's always a joy reading these updates, where you get the 3D models and right after it the printed parts - of impressive quality! I will also declare myself satisfied with the amount of painting and gluing included in this update - I will remain satisfied until mid next week tops, though.... Ciao 1 9 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
perdu Posted April 20 Share Posted April 20 6 minutes ago, giemme said: It's always a joy reading these updates, where you get the 3D models and right after it the printed parts - of impressive quality! I will also declare myself satisfied with the amount of painting and gluing included in this update - I will remain satisfied until mid next week tops, though.... Ciao Exactly what Giorgio says And oh yes a similar time frame works for me too... Yonder interior is beyond excellent and on the wild borders of amazing. 👍 2 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry1954 Posted April 20 Share Posted April 20 Another stonking update Steve. Very impressed at all those 3D internals being produced and to boot, some actual old school modelling as well. 🥳 Embarrassed to say that as the founder and secretary of the IPMS Target Facilities SIG, I was unaware of the existence of The Long Drag. Given that fact, and that I have plentiful Canberra, Firefly and Meteor "target" subjects in the stash, a copy has now been ordered 🤫 Terry 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Galligraphics Posted April 20 Share Posted April 20 11 minutes ago, perdu said: beyond excellent and on the wild borders of amazing Poetry… Couldn’t agree more 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
81-er Posted April 20 Share Posted April 20 Even by your already impressively high standards, you've excelled yourself with this one Steve! Absolutely exquisite detailing there, plus the forethought to allow tolerances for making it all blend in when the time comes to button up the fuselage. Bravo! James 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brandy Posted April 20 Share Posted April 20 That interior has turned out absolutely beautifully. Have fun with forms! Ian 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Serkan Sen Posted April 20 Share Posted April 20 5 hours ago, Fritag said: And at least some detail will be visible through the launching hole (with a torch ) I was planning to ask whether any of these magnificent details will be somehow visible (other than x-ray)... Serkan 1 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fritag Posted April 20 Author Share Posted April 20 5 hours ago, PeteH1969 said: What tolerances do you use on the parts that are assembled to the other parts and then fitted to the fuselage. 0.1mm all round seems to work for me. What do you use Pete? 4 hours ago, giemme said: I will remain satisfied until mid next week tops, though.. I've done a bit of actual kit type gluing G. Can I negotiate for the end of next week now? 3 hours ago, Brandy said: Have fun with forms! I used it for a satchel on the Hawks - but I've already forgotten what little I knew.... 22 minutes ago, Serkan Sen said: was planning to ask whether any of these magnificent details will be somehow visible (other than x-ray)... Ha. But it's chiefly for practice anyway 16 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeteH1969 Posted April 20 Share Posted April 20 30 minutes ago, Fritag said: 0.1mm all round seems to work for me. What do you use Pete? I've done a bit of actual kit type gluing G. Can I negotiate for the end of next week now? I used it for a satchel on the Hawks - but I've already forgotten what little I knew.... Ha. But it's chiefly for practice anyway Hello Steve The larger the scale the smaller the tolerance 72-76th .1mm 43-48th .075mm 32-35th .05mm it also depends on what type of joint or job the joint is doing (corner joint or axle)? Great work with the Defiant. Pete 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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