Bruce Archer Posted January 7, 2023 Share Posted January 7, 2023 (edited) Hi All! I suffered a hard drive failure and lost what images I had for Martlet/Wildcat Mk. II/III serials AM954 to AM963. I just received an Eduard F4F-3 kit and wish to do one of these ten airframes. Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks! Bruce Edited January 7, 2023 by Bruce Archer grammer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClaudioN Posted January 8, 2023 Share Posted January 8, 2023 THE BATTLE OF THE ATLANTIC 1939-1945. © IWM (MH 5186) IWM Non Commercial License Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruce Archer Posted January 9, 2023 Author Share Posted January 9, 2023 Thanks . Now to find one while in Sqn Service ( 802 NAS?). Bruce Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul J Posted January 10, 2023 Share Posted January 10, 2023 I found these pics in my archive. Any good?? I might have a couple more somewhere and will post here when I find them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
detail is everything Posted January 11, 2023 Share Posted January 11, 2023 I don't think the second photo is relevant (folding wings and Avenger style pitot indicate early Martlet IIs in the AM964 to AM 999 serial range and I think the first photo is a Martlet I (no cowl flaps, original unbraced windscreen, two-part cowling, horizontally divided, short chord Cyclone engine cowling) There are the well known decals and profiles of AM963 'Q' of 802NAS on HMS Audacity, Dec 1941, but I haven't found any source photos for that specific machine, time and place. I assume people have found a record of that particular airframe being at that time and place and then referenced photos of Martlets on Audacity to come up with guesstimated profiles. Googling AM963 'Q' shows a lot of variation in depicted colours and upper and lower camouflage demarcation line style, with regard to the various published depictions of this airframe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
detail is everything Posted January 11, 2023 Share Posted January 11, 2023 The famous photo of three Martlets formatting on a Pan Am Clipper shows what some claim to be AM963 'Q', Though the quality is poor and it is hard to tell. https://www.keymilitary.com/article/eric-browns-first-foray and https://www.key.aero/article/grummans-wildcat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClaudioN Posted January 12, 2023 Share Posted January 12, 2023 15 hours ago, detail is everything said: what some claim to be AM963 'Q' Sorry, this is a long-standing error, IMHO. Those props are Hamilton Standard, all three aircraft are Martlet Mk. Is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
detail is everything Posted January 16, 2023 Share Posted January 16, 2023 I thought that would be the case Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
captnwoxof Posted January 17, 2023 Share Posted January 17, 2023 Hi Bruce While there lots of "profiles" and mis-captioned photos floating around, actual photos of AM954-963 seem to be rare as hen's teeth. I found two in a file at the PRO (SUPP9/2, USA TYPES L-Z). This recorded the arrival of various US types with photos and a technical description upon arrival and assembly in the UK. The Martlet II file shows AM958. One of the photos is a side view, widely available, which you correctly used in your article and Claudio has posted in his first response in this thread, so I won't repost it again. The second is a head on view. I posted it in an earlier thread, but had some trouble doing so and not everyone could view it so I'll try it again. It clearly shows the engine and cowling congiguration. The only other photos I am aware of are a series of pictures of a pre-delivery aircraft. Here is one. These pictures were published (probably for political purposes and publicity) captioned as an aircraft of the "Greek Order". It is clearly not. While the full true story of the "Greek order" is beyond the scope of this post, those 30 aircraft were not commercially contracted for, they were standard US Navy F4F-3As (BuNo 3875-3904) requisitioned under the Lend-Lease Act. This aircraft is not an F4F-3A. It displays all the physical characteristics of the first 10 G-36Bs with the fixed wing.It is finished in the camouflage that was applied to those aircraft. It bears British national markings, temporarily covered, and a US civil registration NX26874 to allow it to be flown in the US. An Air Ministry serial has not yet been issued or applied. Photos of this aircraft have been widely published, invariably mis-captioned as a "Greek" aircraft. This is a shame, as aside from the confusion it creates about the Greek aircraft, it has masked the availability of a sound reference on the rare first ten G-36Bs. The Eduard F4F-3 release contains everything you need to build one of these aircraft except a Sutton harness and GM2 gunsight. Its a beautiful kit. Happy modeling! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
detail is everything Posted January 17, 2023 Share Posted January 17, 2023 3 hours ago, captnwoxof said: The Eduard F4F-3 release contains everything you need to build one of these aircraft except a Sutton harness and GM2 gunsight. Its a beautiful kit. Happy modeling! Does the kit include the long bullet shaped propeller hub of the G-36Bs? The F4F-3 had the stepped hub which was also seen on the F4F-3A and F4F-4. Interesting that NX26874 lacks the braced windscreen and gunsight of the G-36B. I assume they were added prior to delivery as they are seen in the photo of AM958 The photos also appear to show no sign of guns fitted. I would expect to see an inner gun barrel sticking out and a hole next to it for the other gun barrel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
captnwoxof Posted January 17, 2023 Share Posted January 17, 2023 Quote 1 hour ago, detail is everything said: Does the kit include the long bullet shaped propeller hub of the G-36Bs? The F4F-3 had the stepped hub which was also seen on the F4F-3A and F4F-4. I spoke without checking the sprues carefully enough. No, it does not. My apologies. 1 hour ago, detail is everything said: Interesting that NX26874 lacks the braced windscreen and gunsight of the G-36B. I assume they were added prior to delivery as they are seen in the photo of AM958 There are two series of photos of NX26874 that I have seen. The photo I posted above is from a sequence showing the aircraft on the ground. The other sequence shows the aircraft airborne. I assume that it was taken on a different date. It shows the aircraft fitted with the braced windscreen. Although no gun barrels are visible, the wing has the 4-gun "double bay" configuration used on the production F4F-3/3A and G-36B. Flying under a civil registration, I would assume that no armament was installed and the gunports were taped over, but thats just a guess. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tempestfan Posted January 17, 2023 Share Posted January 17, 2023 1 hour ago, detail is everything said: The photos also appear to show no sign of guns fitted. I would expect to see an inner gun barrel sticking out and a hole next to it for the other gun barrel What was the practice for direct purchase aircraft - .30s or .303s? If the latter, I'd imagine they were fitted after arrival; and how about the gunsight - UK GFE, possibly? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClaudioN Posted January 17, 2023 Share Posted January 17, 2023 All Martlets had .50s. As to the gunsight, @mdesaxe mentioned an ST-1A gunsight that, according to @Nick Millman and @ColFord, was an equivalent of the N-3A gunsight manufactured in the US by Star Machine Manufacturers Inc. Sounds rather obscure to me, but it shows that both guns and gunsights were US-supplied. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
captnwoxof Posted January 17, 2023 Share Posted January 17, 2023 Claudio is correct. Although there was a proposal to fit .303s in the Martlet I (G-36A), it was decided not to do so and all versions of the Martlet were armed with .50s only. The guns were purchased under seperate contract and furnished to Grumman for fitting in the USA (there is a great deal of correspondance dealing with this in the PRO files). American made ST-1A gunsights were fitted to both the G-36A and G-36B in the USA. This was an "export" version of the N-3/3A sight. The British considered all US gunsights inadequate, and British Barr & Stroud sights were retrofitted. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tempestfan Posted January 17, 2023 Share Posted January 17, 2023 47 minutes ago, ClaudioN said: All Martlets had .50s. Seems I'm in for Alzheimer treatment, if there is one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruce Archer Posted January 17, 2023 Author Share Posted January 17, 2023 Lots of info . As per the point hub, this was a cover over the prop hub. If anyone has a Hobbycraft( and subsequent boxings) P-36 and P-40 the pointed hub is included. Gunsight images? Bruce Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClaudioN Posted January 17, 2023 Share Posted January 17, 2023 https://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/63773-gun-sight-question/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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