Bozothenutter Posted January 7, 2023 Share Posted January 7, 2023 Any good sources for dimensioned engine drawings for the Rhone, Oberursel, Clerget, Bentley engine? Looking for fin distance and stuff like that for making cylinders on the lathe (or at least attempt to....) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derekS Posted January 9, 2023 Share Posted January 9, 2023 If you can find a copy of "The Best of Wylam Book 1 ",it has quite detailed drawings of the Clerget Rotary.Of course ,I can`t comment on their accuracy. As to modelling ,both W.O.Doylend in"Aircraft in Miniature" & Harry Woodman in"Scale Model Aircraft" are well worth a read. HTH. Derek S 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Torbjorn Posted January 9, 2023 Share Posted January 9, 2023 Which scale do you plan to do this in? A typical rotary cylinder had like 20-30 cooling fins, with thickness that would make them razor-sharp in scale. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichieW Posted January 9, 2023 Share Posted January 9, 2023 One thing I have noticed with some kits is that they reduce they number of cooling fins due to the impracticality of making it 100% accurate by injection moulding. I am actually going to start scratch building a Gnome Monosoupape in 1/32 in the next month or two and have the same problem with accessing blueprints. I will post anything I come across. Richie 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichieW Posted January 9, 2023 Share Posted January 9, 2023 You might find this YT video interesting. No measurements but it might be useful. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bozothenutter Posted January 9, 2023 Author Share Posted January 9, 2023 2 hours ago, Torbjorn said: Which scale do you plan to do this in? A typical rotary cylinder had like 20-30 cooling fins, with thickness that would make them razor-sharp in scale. The plan is 1/32, and aware of the limitations of scale. It will probably need a workaround.... 47 minutes ago, RichieW said: One thing I have noticed with some kits is that they reduce they number of cooling fins due to the impracticality of making it 100% accurate by injection moulding. I am actually going to start scratch building a Gnome Monosoupape in 1/32 in the next month or two and have the same problem with accessing blueprints. I will post anything I come across. Richie Good to know I'm not the only madman.... Another solution might be PE, or punching discs out of shim stock. Use two thicknesses and stack. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichieW Posted January 9, 2023 Share Posted January 9, 2023 21 minutes ago, Bozothenutter said: Another solution might be PE, or punching discs out of shim stock. Use two thicknesses and stack. Punched discs is the route I'm going down. I am experimenting with making my own washers to keep things centred correctly. I have a set of transfer punches to help line up the hole in the washer but accuracy is still a problem. If this fails I may have to resort to styrene. A Dspaie circle cutter might be the way to go for this. Let's keep in touch over it, I'm not the best scratch builder but occasionally I have a good idea! Richie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Torbjorn Posted January 9, 2023 Share Posted January 9, 2023 40 minutes ago, Bozothenutter said: The plan is 1/32, and aware of the limitations of scale. It will probably need a workaround.... I guessed as much, for smaller scales my answer would have been easy: ”just do as many and as as close as you possible can” Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
europapete Posted January 9, 2023 Share Posted January 9, 2023 Check out Taurus Models website. Lukasz already makes excellent enginges. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bozothenutter Posted January 9, 2023 Author Share Posted January 9, 2023 7 minutes ago, europapete said: Check out Taurus Models website. Lukasz already makes excellent enginges. Where is the masochism in that? 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
europapete Posted January 9, 2023 Share Posted January 9, 2023 It's partly in trying to figure out how to spell engines correctly 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bozothenutter Posted January 9, 2023 Author Share Posted January 9, 2023 46 minutes ago, RichieW said: Punched discs is the route I'm going down. I am experimenting with making my own washers to keep things centred correctly. I have a set of transfer punches to help line up the hole in the washer but accuracy is still a problem. If this fails I may have to resort to styrene. A Dspaie circle cutter might be the way to go for this. Let's keep in touch over it, I'm not the best scratch builder but occasionally I have a good idea! Richie Maybe use short concentric pieces of tubing? Cooling fin disc inside the larger tube, then fit the smaller tube to centre the cylinder wall disc. Make lots of two disc parts, then use a longer tube to do a full cylinder. I think.....🫣 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
europapete Posted January 9, 2023 Share Posted January 9, 2023 A couple of thoughts. You will need to use the thinnest sheet possible to even come close to a scale appearence, say 5thou or less if you can find it, and most rotaries cylinder fins were not all the same diameter for the length of the cylinder. They start of narrow at the base and increase in diameter towards the cylinder head, then narrow down a bit again. So each fin would need to be slightly different to produce the shape. Check the particular motor you are making, some types were straight, some staight tapered, some curved tapered. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichieW Posted January 9, 2023 Share Posted January 9, 2023 12 minutes ago, europapete said: They start of narrow at the base and increase in diameter towards the cylinder head, then narrow down a bit again. This is the real stumbling block. I'm punching washers from 0.15mm aluminium. A success rate of only 1 in every 5 at best so far. If I can get one decent cylinder learning to esin cast would be helpful. Learning to make my own photo etch would be even more so! 1 hour ago, Bozothenutter said: Good to know I'm not the only madman.... Madmen United will never be defeated! Richie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bozothenutter Posted January 9, 2023 Author Share Posted January 9, 2023 Gerald Wingrove taught me to split your subject into shapes, so a taper only connects two straight bits. @RichieWCasting might be hard due to depth and thinness of the fins..... You'll just have to build about a hundred of them....🤪 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bozothenutter Posted January 9, 2023 Author Share Posted January 9, 2023 Trick for punching and knowing centre. Put the same size drill in before punching a light twist will show a mark. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichieW Posted January 9, 2023 Share Posted January 9, 2023 16 minutes ago, Bozothenutter said: You'll just have to build about a hundred of them....🤪 Awesome! I'm savouring the pain already! 😂 15 minutes ago, Bozothenutter said: Trick for punching and knowing centre. Put the same size drill in before punching a light twist will show a mark. Been trying that, before I was trying to punch the small hole, using a transfer punch to centre it and punching out the washer. A truly dreadful method! 😂 Richie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bozothenutter Posted January 9, 2023 Author Share Posted January 9, 2023 42 minutes ago, RichieW said: Awesome! I'm savouring the pain already! 😂 Been trying that, before I was trying to punch the small hole, using a transfer punch to centre it and punching out the washer. A truly dreadful method! 😂 Richie There's a design floating around my head for something like that.... A revolver type punch, would like to get away from inserts though....🤔 Seem to be spending a lot of time on designing tools, and not a lot on building. Typical....I love solving problems, not interested in anything after though...... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
europapete Posted January 9, 2023 Share Posted January 9, 2023 check out Clerget patent Aero Engines ISBN 0-9536523-1-9 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JackG Posted January 11, 2023 Share Posted January 11, 2023 If one is familiar with vector drawing, then using the services of a photo etch company would be something to consider. Have dealt with PPD in Scotland with very satisfied work. For brass sheets the thinnest offering is 0.1mm, while Beryllium Copper can be half that at 0.05mm. From a drawing stand point, once a set of discs are done and depending on their overall shape, it would be just a matter of copy and paste to the amount required for the overall project. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bozothenutter Posted January 11, 2023 Author Share Posted January 11, 2023 loaded a drawing into F360, calibrated it, drew some lines and arrived at the following: cylinder 201mm from lower fin to upper fin (discounting the fin that comes with the head) this would be 6.28mm in 1/32 I counted 28 fins From pics I'd say the spacing is about 4 times the fin. so 6.28/28=0.23mm 0.23/5=0.045mm 🤣........we're talking foil here. PE is indeed our best bet! still hoping to find a higher res drawing so I can measure the fin gap.... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichieW Posted January 11, 2023 Share Posted January 11, 2023 At the more luddite end of the spectrum I just ordered some sequins off ebay! 😂 Richie 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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