Vallejo model air paints

[andmarsh]

Hi

 

Not sure what section to post this under

Bit of a rant, but does anyone else have pretty crappy results when airbrushing with vallejo model air paints?

 

For instance - i put down a black base layer last night on an Tank i have built - even the next day it feels 'tacky' to the touch - if i rub a bit the paint just seems to come away - the finish is not nice at all.

So i went over it with Tamiya Olive drab from the airbrush - and that goes down lovely - super smooth and quick drying.

 

Maybe it is just me - i love vallejo paints for handbrushing minature figures - but think i will stick with Tamiya Acrylics for the airbrush

 

Cheers

Andy

[dromia]

Seeing as it is a question about paint then the Paint section would seem be the most appropriate place to pose these questions.

[Dr. Quack]

I share your view. I still use Vallejo for brush painting details and the like, but gave up airbrushing them a long time ago - I never could find a good spraying consistency and was always disappointed by their adhesion, even over primer - impossible to mask over.

 

I agree that this thread would look good in the Paint section - I'm sure an admin will be along soon to do the honours.

Q

[andmarsh]

thanks all - just seen there is a paint section😑

[Rob Pulham]

Although not for Armour models, I have been spraying and masking Vallejo Acrylics for years on both plastic and brass models. I do find that you need to thin with Vallejo's own thinner though. 

 

I do use Vallejo Air, again sprayed and masked without issue but being  a Yorkshireman I prefer to buy the full colour and thin myself, because it goes a lot further for your money...

[Model Mate]

I like the model-air range, although ironically, I don't often spray them. They brush pretty well though, and seem particularly good for dry-brushing. On the couple of occasions I did spray them, they came out well, if a bit "rubbery" once dry. I quickly found that trying to dilute them with any serious amount of water was a no-no, but just a little tiny drop of water in the cup seemed to help.

[vytautas]

When I bought the airbrush, I tried to use Vallejo paints, but nothing worked for me. I was already beginning to think that my hands were growing not from my shoulders, but from my bottom, and I was about to throw away the airbrush, but at the decisive moment, Tamiya's paints got under my hands. And I realized that airbrushing with Tamiya paints is easy and simple. Since then, I have no longer used Vallejo paints.
Another feature of Vallejo is that it paints dry with polymerizes and forms a film on the surface, and therefore is not suitable for the hairspray chipping technique.
Vallejo's adhesion compared to Tamiya or Mr. Hobby is also much worse.

This is not a Tamiya ad, I also use other paints, but only ones that dry without polymerization.

 

Vytautas

Edited January 6, 2023 by vytautas

[daneel]

Try AK real color, you'll forget all your troubles with other paints

[sardaukar]

I use vallejo model air paints all the time, and my main gripe about them would be tip drying, but I dont get any of the problems above. If I do thin them I only ever use Vallejo airbrush thinner sometimes with a drop of their flow improver. I am moving away from using their primer which is a polyurethane which I feel doesn't always stick as well as I would like it to if I've forgotten to wash the model. But Model Air itself always seems to go down fine on top of a primer.

[Model Mate]

On 06/01/2023 at 18:52, vytautas said:

When I bought the airbrush, I tried to use Vallejo paints, but nothing worked for me. I was already beginning to think that my hands were growing not from my shoulders, but from my bottom, and I was about to throw away the airbrush, but at the decisive moment, Tamiya's paints got under my hands. And I realized that airbrushing with Tamiya paints is easy and simple. Since then, I have no longer used Vallejo paints.
Another feature of Vallejo is that it paints dry with polymerizes and forms a film on the surface, and therefore is not suitable for the hairspray chipping technique.
Vallejo's adhesion compared to Tamiya or Mr. Hobby is also much worse.

This is not a Tamiya ad, I also use other paints, but only ones that dry without polymerization.

 

Vytautas

I’m with you on Tamiya - they spray better than pretty much anything else I think, but then they brush really badly, so that’s where Vallejo come in for me.

[Troy Smith]

18 minutes ago, Model Mate said:

Tamiya but then they brush really badly,

Often stated, but not true if thinned properly,  you need to use water,  I use de-ionised,  my method, get a mini syringe, draw up 95% water and 5% flow improver,  add some Tamiya paint to a palette, then a drop at a time until the paint is like milk,  apply  with a small flat brush.   Brush in all directions.   Apply next coat as soon as touch dry.

 

If not thinned like this the paint applied drags up the just applied as it's a bit 'hot' from the solvent, which is why  I often read you can't brush it well, as the solvent lifts the just applied paint.     Using water as thinner water stops this as I think it reduces the 'hotness' of the paint solvent a bit.  

 

This pallete and drops of water /FI mix also works well Vallejo too BTW, as does the flat brush. 

 

HTH

[vytautas]

9 minutes ago, Model Mate said:

I’m with you on Tamiya - they spray better than pretty much anything else I think, but then they brush really badly, so that’s where Vallejo come in for me.

Yes, that's right, Tamiya is not suitable for brush painting. For brush painting, I usually use Revell acrylic paints, they are cheap in my city store.

 

Vytautas

[Troy Smith]

7 minutes ago, vytautas said:

Tamiya is not suitable for brush painting

It is.  

Did you not read my post.  They brush fine, as long as thinned with water and flow improver, and use a flat brush. Full details above

This is Tamiya light grey , heavily thinned down to use as primer coat, which is why it's patchy, used as a primer for Xtracrylix

 

Tamiya buff again used a primer for vallejo

 

The wheel wells are also Tamiya, which  took a few  coats as white over coloured plastic. 

 

It works very well as a base coat for Vallejo as it has a bit more bite on the plastic.

[Bertie McBoatface]

21 minutes ago, vytautas said:

Yes, that's right, Tamiya is not suitable for brush painting. For brush painting, I usually use Revell acrylic paints, they are cheap in my city store.

 

Vytautas

 

I agree. I like Tamiya and Mr Colour for spraying but they are awful for painting compared to Vallejo which I find very useful but hard work if I spray it. As with so many airbrushing problems, I found that Vallejo needed a lot of thinning and even then it wasn't great. Don't believe that 'ready to airbrush' line; model air still needs thinning to spray with.

[vytautas]

9 hours ago, Troy Smith said:

9 hours ago, vytautas said:

Tamiya не подходит для рисования кистью.

Это.  

Вы не читали мой пост. Они хорошо расчесываются, разбавленные водой и улучшающим текучесть, и используют плоскую кисть. Полная информация выше

Это Tamiya светло-серый, сильно разбавленный для использования в качестве грунтовки, поэтому он неоднородный, используется в качестве грунтовки для Xtracrylix.

 

Тамия бафф снова использовала грунтовку для валлехо

 

Колесные арки также изготовлены Тамией, на которую нанесли несколько слоев белого цвета поверх цветного пластика. 

 

Он очень хорошо работает в качестве базового слоя для Vallejo, так как немного сильнее кусается на пластике.

Looking at your work, I must agree that the result is really impressive. Unfortunately, brush-painting with Tamiya doesn't work so well for me. But I will definitely try your technology.

 

Vytautas

[Rumblestripe]

Never had a problem with Vallejo Air. In fact it is my go-to airbrush paint, a drop of their thinners in the cup then straight from a well mixed bottle into the cup. Bob's yerr auntie's husband. I dislike Tamiya intensely and never use it for anything! Perhaps a couple of bad/old bottles? The Vallejo Air primer is OK but does tend to clog the airbrush even when thinned. Works fine for small jobs if it is big jobs I will go with a Halford's rattle can.

[CFster]

No problems with Model Air. The key for me was a thinner mix consisting of 90% Vallejo Airbrush Thinner, 5% Liquitex Flow Aid, 5% Liquitex Slow-Dri Additive (not their Slow-Dri Medium!). Then thin the paint as normal up to 1:1 (which largely depends on color).  The Flow-Aid is a concentrate so it’s effective at only 5% of your thinner mix before mixing with color. I find Vallejo’s Airbrush thinner works better with this mix than water. 
 

You HAVE to use primer. Vallejo primer is garbage. I use Stynylrez. 

 

Your first two coats of Model Air need to be dry dust coats - meaning it’s almost drying in the air on the way to the surface. Then go in for heavier wet coats and it won’t run and lays down smooth. 
 

Also practice good trigger discipline to mitigate tip drying.
 

Lacquers and enamels give me asthma attacks, so I’ve learned to make water acrylics work. 

Edited January 15, 2023 by CFster

[Ratch]

Vallejo Model Air sprays fine, neat, straight from the bottle.

Their primer can cause drying problems in the airbrush tip, but a little of their thinner added sorts this.

If its not drying (still tacky) it sounds like you've over-thinned it.

[Casey]

Vallejo Model Air seem to have a lot of retarder already in themselves.

 

When I am doing drawdowns of this paint it needs minimum 3 days to cure to a reasonable hardness (and you can still smell the paint, which means it is not fully done even then). This is normal for acrylic paints - they need time to cure, and the uncured paint that is dry gives the false impression the paint itself is weak.

 

Adding Vallejo thinner to this paint further delays that, because it contains additional retarder.

 

---

Yes, I admit my 3 days minimum is for much thicker paint layer than usually applied by airbrush - I use 10 mil wet film thickness drawdown bar (mil does not mean milimeter there It's 1/1000 of an inch - https://kta.com/kta-university/calculating-wet-film-thickness-2/), but still the patience is the key there.

 

If you want to know what a drawdown process is, it is pretty well shown here:

 

 

Edited January 15, 2023 by Casey

[Ratch]

1 hour ago, Casey said:

When I am doing drawdowns

What is the object of this exercise? To test viscosity?

[Casey]

21 minutes ago, Ratch said:

What is the object of this exercise? To test viscosity?

Paint viscosity is tested differently by using specialized viscosity meter. Drawdowns are used to apply a controlled layer of paint on a known surface. I use opacity drawdown card, which allows me to measure paint real color with spectrophotometer, calculate hiding power (by measuring difference of results between black and white background) and measure gloss level using gloss meter. I do publish real paint measurements ocassionally, recently I finished this excercise with Humbrol and Revel paints which you can find in this forum.

 

There are other types of drawdown cards, for example one that is used for calculation of paint spread rate, or paint penetration.

 

The drawdown cards are itself quite expensive because they are made in a very controlled and repeatable way. They also do not contain optical brighteners (this is why you cant really use white paper to check real paint color).

 

Edited January 15, 2023 by Casey

[Ratch]

Do you manufacture paint?

[Casey]

1 hour ago, Ratch said:

Do you manufacture paint?

I have some experience in paint and coating industry from the lab side but I am not associated with any paint vendor.

Edited January 16, 2023 by Casey

[binbrook87]

I use Model Air occasionally for airbrushing but it can be delicate especially if you haven't primed. I use Vallejo's own thinners and flow improver. It needs handling with care though until one of your gloss coat varnishes are applied. Benefits are that it's great for brush painting and also easy to clean up with water.

[PhantomLover]

I used Vallejo Model Air a lot, and it worked quite ok, but then I started using Mr. Color lacquers, And that stufs is so much better.. only that smell.. 

But no more tip drying, a much more resistant finish etc. Great stuff.