A Ju-88 mass production attempt: A1, A4, D2, S1 and G6

[PeterB]

13 hours ago, JWM said:

 

 

Still some more work is needed on that.

 

BTW - the external bomb racks (ETS -was it their  German abrasion?) for "S" are completely different that those for both "A". Can anybody tell that it was like that? The "S" can carry two 1000 kg bombs whereas "A" can carry maximum 500 kg, moreover the "S" was aerodynamically improved so maybe it could look differently, but I do not know it at all....

Any help on that would be appreciated.

Regards

J-W

 

Bomb racks were normally called ETC which according to a thread on BM in 2017 stood for Elektrischer Träger für cylindrische Außenlasten aka Electric carrier for cylindrical external stores. The ones on your S look more streamlined than the ones carried on say the A-4, which makes sense. Green says that the "normal ETC racks were removed to reduce drag" when talking about the S, but they did sometimes carry external bombs and the illustration in Green's book seems to show and S with the same ETC racks as used on the A! Unfortunately I have yet to come across a listing of the various racks used by the Luftwaffe, unlike the actual bombs themselves where there is plenty of info. The number after the ETC is the weight of bomb they could carry so for example the A would have up to 4 racks in the ETC500 series. The S presumably would have something in the ETC1000 series if your info is correct. This link is about all I found and it does not show much difference between the 500 and 1000 unfortunately.

https://www.hyperscale.com/2009/reviews/accessories/mdccv32044reviewbg_1.htm

 

Pete

Edited January 15, 2023 by PeterB

[JWM]

Hmm, what is in box art of Hasegawa T1 has a differently looking ETC then those from A. 

The molds

 

And A4

 

In both cases it is "L" frame... So I have to replace it

Regards

J-W

 

 

 

[JWM]

I removed them (The wrong shaped ETC pyllons from "S") , three went out rather easy, however one was apparently well glued and required more work... Finally it is done . Temporary no photo because the battery went flat in camera, I have to recharge it (3h) - so tomorrow...

One photo done today - the inside of BMW engine of 'S"  with brass tube as an extension of shaft. The resin spinners seen on photo (copies of those from Italeri Ju 188) are too massive (large) - I am doing now silica form to copy spinners from Fw 190A. It will be of proper size, I hope. Sorry for out of focus...

 

I glued engines to "S"

 

More photos later

Regards

J-W

 

[JWM]

The S from bottom side with removed ETC pylons

As you see the devastation is limited...

 

The current family photo of four

 

From top left: S, right A4, bottom shelf G6 (left) and A1. 

 

Below from left again A2 and right - D2

 

So far they looks more or less like variants of the same machine, I hope....

 

The lose-up on G-6 alone - just to have a look on the extended fin

 

The difference might appear first of all due the differences (if any serious) in u/c... The u/c makes the silhouette and general impression. 

All tires are of same dimensions. The legs looks a bit differently, I tried to unify them by drilling openings (which were present only in Zvezda)i stabilizers near the shock absorber.

 

The u/c looks following:

AMT S

 

Zvezda G and D

 

Revell both A 

 

Zvezda looks for me the best detailed of them...

 

To be cont.

Regards

J-W

 

[vppelt68]

I admit the Zvezda kit beats Revells in buildability and fit. It's just coming from somewhere I nowadays refuse to buy anything from. If only ICM would bring us a 1:72 Ju 88 kit as nice to build as their Dorniers are!

[JWM]

I would not tell Zvezda kits better then Revell. Certainly they are based on different drawings. The ICM 88, if they will decide to rescale their 1/48 will be very interesting!

[vppelt68]

I think the Revell kits are a bit overengineered, just to allow the several kit variants, and thus flimsy. There's also some roundness in some details and some bigger parts like the fuselage top section and engine cowling halves. I'm not saying the Zvezda kit is better, but it's more solid and clunky where a kit needs to/can be. The Revell cockpit and surface detail beat the competition, that's for sure. On the other hand, from a single Zvezda A-5/A-17 kit you can build almost any long-wing Ju 88 A or D variant. V-P

[JWM]

I attached the u/c to both Zvezda kits.  I found a flaw in this - this is a wrong angle on which the main u/c leg like to arrest. It is done like in case of He-111, so that the leg is perpendicular to ground. It is wrong in case of Ju88. It should be nearly perpendicular to the plate of wings and in fact go a bit forward from the perpendicular line. 

 

This completely change the silhouette ( @PeterB ) !  The second thing is that canopy of G6 needs some sanding (very fine, some perhaps 0.2 mm) to fit both elements together in the opening in fuselage. I did it in the middle. Did not glued yet the rear part because the MG need to be painted.

Here is current look of D2 and G6

G6. 

 

The gun barrels (both in gondola and the Schrage Music)  - -I am going to do using  an injection needles of proper size. I drilled for barrels of the Schrage Music openings asymmetrical on the right side instead of symmetrical position proposed in kit. where were  the shell outputs from this S-M installation? I have not found any drawing or photo for that yet...

 

 

And D2

 

To be cont.

Regards

J-W

 

Edited January 18, 2023 by JWM

[PeterB]

I had the same problem with the canopy on my G, and I managed to get one of the u/c legs angled forwards slightly, but looking at it the other has moved back just a little whilst setting. I agree the Zvezda kit has generally decent fit and whilst it seems to have less cockpit detail than the Revell kit based on threads I have seen, I think it strikes a sensible balance between that and ease of construction. I do have doubts about buying any more of their kits at the moment but this had been in my stash since well before the recent unpleasantness started.

 

Pete

[vppelt68]

1 hour ago, PeterB said:

I think it strikes a sensible balance between that (details) and ease of construction.

My thoughts, exactly. V-P

[JWM]

4 hours ago, PeterB said:

I do have doubts about buying any more of their kits at the moment but this had been in my stash since well before the recent unpleasantness started.

Pete, I totally agree with you. I am thinking on H and Mistel - both as conversions from "normal" A or C  machines. I do not want to do Mistel from Italerii since it is raised line model therefore a lot of additional work needed on surface. There are other problems with that kit like sie of wheels I think... The Hasegawa will be perfect, but it is very expensive when appear on secondary market.. 

Moreover, I was planning similar "mass production" of Petlakov Pe 2 and Polikarpov Po-2 (four-five machines of different variants of each type) but from the same reasons I gave up... Or rather  postpone it for some long time ... Thoose both Zvezda Ju 88 kits were in my stash for many years....

Regrds

J-W

[JWM]

Hi 

A small progress with D2 (Zvezda A5 conv.):

 

The main canopy requires removal in length almost about  1 mm !  If anybody will do this after readin this threas, I suggest rather enlarge to opening in fuselage, but now for me it will be a bit risky. 

And the gondola

 

 

 

The S1 - I glued the nose

 

Please note the dry positioning of one spinner. This is AZ FW 190 A0 spinner. I am preparing now the copies of it, because I think it recalls the real thing enough well...

 

Here comparison of spinners for BMW 801 engines:

from left: the AMT original spinner for S1, the Italeri for Ju188E and the AZ for FW 190. I am chosing the latest

 

Here the real thing:

 

Regards

J-W

 

 

[JWM]

Hi,

Today I was surprised finding on the box photo of Revall A1 the the arms near oleo had openings whereas that in my kit did not have it (both in A1 and A4) and I needed to drill them! 

 

It suggest, that they have to quit this from some technological issue as simplification! 

 

I glued the u/c to Revell kits today. I went very nice and the angle was assured  instantly and perfectly. I was a bit afraid how it will go and simply I was wrong! 

 I glued the nose clear parts

 

The nose height is same (within some tolerance) for both Revell kits, what was expected

 

I start to like more and more the Revell Ju88 kits! The u/c work was simply a pleasure! 

 

I was very much positively surprise when I did the same comparison between Zvezda D2 (left) and Revell A4 (right):

The at least in this important element the Zvezda and Revell are not different  

I made the resin copy of FW 190A spinner for BMW 801 engines of S1:

 

And I started some work with reducing the height of the u/c legs of S on which I've read in this review (http://hsfeatures.com/features04/ju88d2t1rb_1.htm - many thanks to @KRK4m for sending this link to me, it a pity, that I did not found it earlier due to some clues on improving the AMT kit which are now too late to introduce...)

Namely I reconstructed the way how the u/c will be installed by drilling out the found for u/c leg, Now the wheels bays became deeper by some 3 mm perhaps)

 

 

To be continued

Regards

J-W

 

 

 

 

 

 

[vppelt68]

I think that boxtop picture is of their 1:32 scale kit, thus it has the holes in the oleo scissors and lowered flaps.

[JWM]

11 minutes ago, vppelt68 said:

I think that boxtop picture is of their 1:32 scale kit, thus it has the holes in the oleo scissors and lowered flaps.

OK, but this is very unfair of producer if is 1/32 kit, the photos on box suggests the content...

[vppelt68]

1 minute ago, JWM said:

OK, but this is very unfair of producer if is 1/32 kit, the photos on box suggests the content...

Maybe it isn't because it says "Prototype-model" next to the pictures. I'm just wondering the landing gear pieces and inner wing parts are un-altered from the A-4/C-6 kits from several years ago... Why would they now need to do new pieces for the A-1 prototype kit?

[JWM]

2 minutes ago, vppelt68 said:

Why would they now need to do new pieces for the A-1 prototype kit?

Maybe initially they intending to do an improved kit regarding earlier A4, them they decided to go more unified? The economy governs, but to meet customers expectations is important for success... The improved kit would mead previous a bit obsolete 

J-W

 

[vppelt68]

Looking at the A-4 and A-1 sprues it's quite clear they wanted to do the new variant with as little alterations and new parts as possible. Mark my words, their next boxing will be an A-5 with some of the  necessary A-1 and A-4 specific parts cut off so you can do only the Fiver from that - because it's the Revell way 

[KRK4m]

6 hours ago, JWM said:

OK, but this is very unfair of producer if is 1/32 kit, the photos on box suggests the content...

Unfortunately, such times have come that deception begins to be perceived as a clever marketing tactic. I fell for exactly the same thing buying a Trumpeter 1:72 Russian T-62 MBT, which company - as most of you probably know - uses a photo of the finished model as the only element of the illustration on the box. And tempted by the fidelity of the details, I bought this 1:72 kit, after which I found out that I would not get the effect from the picture on the box in any way, because the tank shown there is a 1:35 scale model. Someone will ask what is the difference? Well, the body of the T-62 turret (similar to the T-54 and T-55) is divided horizontally in the plane of its floor into a rotating domed upper part and a fixed lower part, whose quarter-spherical side fragments hang over the fenders covering the tracks. This is the case in the original, in the 1:35 models and even in the antique Esci/Italeri model in 1:72. And in their latest model in 1:72, the Chinese replaced these quarter-spherical side fairings with a vertical cylinder wall, forming an extension of the tower's outline down to the contact with the fenders. It took me 3 days to remake this "trinket" to the correct shape and I'm still not entirely satisfied with the result.

Cheers

Michael

[JWM]

6 hours ago, vppelt68 said:

Looking at the A-4 and A-1 sprues it's quite clear they wanted to do the new variant with as little alterations and new parts as possible. Mark my words, their next boxing will be an A-5 with some of the  necessary A-1 and A-4 specific parts cut off so you can do only the Fiver from that - because it's the Revell way 

Taking two BMW engines from Ju290 they need only to do a new strimline nose for Ju88S1 and two ETC 1000  bomb racks - and new kit is ready to go!

J-W

 

[vppelt68]

1 minute ago, JWM said:

Taking two BMW engines from Ju290 they need only to do a new strimline nose for Ju88S1 and two ETC 1000  bomb racks - and new kit is ready to go!

J-W

 

Well why not, but in my case the only interesting variants start with A, C or D

[JWM]

I added the gondolas on both Revell As. glued the u/c in S and glued canopies on S and G

I started painting with thinned (diluted) paints

A1 BOB

 

Hungarian D2

 

African A4

 

Western front S1

 

 

Home defense G

 

The comparison of height (reduced by some +2 mm) of AMT "S" and Zvezda G

 

 

To be cont.

Regards

J-W

 

 

 

[JWM]

Small progress after today for all but G6. The painting and installing the canopies. Note that A1 has additional MG in canopy! (thanks  @Ed Russell for PM me a photo of the machine I want to build. )

 

 

Regards

J-W

[JWM]

After a careful look on photos I had to lower a bit the level of black on sides of S1 I sabsed it by ca. 1.5mm, right to the middle fuselage panel line. 

Then I painted second layer of RLM 76 (Humbrol 247)

This is also a second layer of black. The landing light needs to be added! 

 

I did also second layer of RLM 76  at G6

 

I painted also second layer of black at  A4

 

 

And glued all bottom details on A1

 

Today this was the D2,  which I did not work on...

To be cont.

Regards

J-W

 

[JWM]

First diluted layer of Humbrol 65 on bottoms of A1 and D2

 

The Ju 88G6 got the second color on top - The patches of RLM 75 (Humbrol 156)

 

 

I have doubts regarding the color on Ju88S

The AMT instruction tells RLM 75, so it will be identical like on G

If you look on BW photos of Ju 88G (here G1), like those below

https://www.asisbiz.com/il2/Ju-88/NJG100/images/Junkers-Ju-88G-5.NJG100-(W7+LN)-Hungary-1944-01.jpg

https://c8.alamy.com/comp/F5JHYP/junkers-ju-88g-1-nowarra-collection-F5JHYP.jpg

There is a very low contrast between lighter (RLM 76) and darker (RLM 75) colors. 

In case of bombers like Ju88S in that blotches pattern the contrast is much deeper:

https://i.imgur.com/Nl8jSrm.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/zd66PU7.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/VNpyC3Q.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/Q2yKPuu.jpg

 

So it looks like some darker color, I think the RLM 74 (Humbrol 111). How do you think? Because, similar pattern on Ju 188 is done with RLM 70, so Schwartzgrun! 

https://www.aircraftresourcecenter.com/Gal12/11601-11700/gal11676-Ju-188-Kucera/00.shtm

 

Maybe I have to ask this on WW2 section? - there is a larger audience I think....

Regards

Jerzy-Wojtek