Coors54 Posted January 26, 2023 Share Posted January 26, 2023 (edited) 1 hour ago, nick said: So How about if I offer a true 1/12th scale engine stand alone, to sit beside the kit, and A NEARLY 1/12th scale version that will actually fit in in it - what do we think? That sounds like a good plan @nick. This whole thread has made me weak in resolve so I've got the kit coming in the next week, you'll have an order from me as soon as you let the goodies loose on the world! Dave Edited January 26, 2023 by Coors54 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noel Smith Posted January 26, 2023 Share Posted January 26, 2023 (edited) Maybe a true 1/12th scale engine might be ok with a bit of compromise on the engine mounts of you can get away with it visually not looking much out.I Alternatively if the Italeri kit engine's scale is a bit smaller than true 1/12th scale then perhaps maybe Nick's thoughts about making one that looks proportionally right to slot straight into the kit may be the way to go. It depends on how much under scale it might be and if it will still look right in the model when built. Edited February 1, 2023 by Noel Smith Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elderly Posted January 28, 2023 Share Posted January 28, 2023 I notice that the Bugatti Owners’ Club have a stand at next month’s Race Retro at Stoneleigh; maybe it’s worth enquiring if they are going to exhibit a relevant car at the show? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flintstone Posted January 28, 2023 Share Posted January 28, 2023 Don't forget that the Bugatti Trust has a museum and archive at Prescott. They also have lots of on-line info. Link below:- http://www.bugatti-trust.co.uk/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cratecruncher Posted January 29, 2023 Share Posted January 29, 2023 Just glanced at the instructions to the Italeri !/12 Bugatti. SURPRISE! They copied every part of the MFH offering including the transmission sump orientation at a right angle to the driveline. Pattern makers are like musicians. They're all thieves, haha. I recall ejector pin marks on the MFH Ferrari 330P4 they stole from the 1/24 Fujimi kit. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nick Posted January 29, 2023 Author Share Posted January 29, 2023 6 minutes ago, Cratecruncher said: Just glanced at the instructions to the Italeri !/12 Bugatti. SURPRISE! They copied every part of the MFH offering including the transmission sump orientation at a right angle to the driveline. Pattern makers are like musicians. They're all thieves, haha. I recall ejector pin marks on the MFH Ferrari 330P4 they stole from the 1/24 Fujimi kit. Interesting. I don’t have the MFH kit, but I had my suspicions, they have done something similar with the super charger mount I think. Nick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noel Smith Posted January 30, 2023 Share Posted January 30, 2023 (edited) Cratecruncher, have you got both kits and doing a direct comparison? Is the transmission sump orientation wrong on both kits or were you pointing out where a copy was made? Please indicate if wrong how to correct this. Maybe Nick will be looking at making a retro fitting part to correct it if it is wrong? So what are you saying? That both the MFH and the Italeri kits are identical parts wise? In which case should I go for the Italeri one, save myself a shed load of money and buy Nick's upgrades when they become available? Flintstone mentioned the Bugatti Trust Museum at the Prescott Hill Climb Course. I believe that they hold all the original Bugatti car company drawings that the Bugatti Owners Club initially obtained when the original company ceased production in the late 50's early 60's era. Edited February 1, 2023 by Noel Smith Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nick Posted January 30, 2023 Author Share Posted January 30, 2023 1 hour ago, Noel Smith said: Cratecruncher, have you got both kits and doing a direct comparison? Is the transmission sump orientation wrong on both kits or were you pointing out where a copy was made? Please indicate if wrong how to correct this. Maybe Nick will be looking at making a retro fitting part to correct it if it is wrong? So what are you saying? That both the MFH and the Italeri kits are identical parts wise? In which case should I go for the Italeri one, save myself a shed load of money and buy Nick's upgrades when they become available? Already on it. Drawing a gearbox as we speak. Now I’ve looked at it there are a few other things wrong too. The profile of the top plate is wrong, plus the bolt spacing is regular on the kit and the real thing isn’t. Nick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coors54 Posted January 30, 2023 Share Posted January 30, 2023 6 hours ago, nick said: Already on it. Drawing a gearbox as we speak. Now I’ve looked at it there are a few other things wrong too. The profile of the top plate is wrong, plus the bolt spacing is regular on the kit and the real thing isn’t. Oh god, this is getting more expensive by the day! 🤣 Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Cawsey Posted January 30, 2023 Share Posted January 30, 2023 At least Italeri have corrected the duck-tail on the MFH kit. . . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick851 Posted January 30, 2023 Share Posted January 30, 2023 I'm currently building the Italeri and MFH at the same time, using the best bits off the Italeri kit on the MFH. Just started swapping the tails. I'll also use the bonnet off the Italeri. I hope to end up with one nice Type 35 and one not so nice! MFH kits usually need a lot of fettling and sometimes bits don't actually fit. I'd be very interested in a replacement engine too (depending on cost!). In swapping the tails of the body, I've noticed that the body work that goes along the side of the chassis, part nos 1D and 18D are about 4mm longer at the back than the MFH ones. Which is right I'm not sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nick Posted January 30, 2023 Author Share Posted January 30, 2023 Now I’ve looked at it, the gearbox is a surprisingly complex asymmetrical casting, absolutely nothing like the made up slanty box thing Italeri came up with (copied from MFH?) if I learnt nothing else in school it was if you’re going to copy someone’s homework, make sure it’s bloody right! 😳 Nick 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noel Smith Posted January 31, 2023 Share Posted January 31, 2023 Nick's endeavours with the Type 35B replacement parts is to be applauded for those wishing to build a very accurate model. It just got me thinking that judging by a number of posts in this thread pointing out inaccuracies on both the MFH and Italeri kits how both manufacturers could get things wrong on their respective kits. Considering that of all the classic racing cars that still exist there are many examples of the actual Bugatti 35B car that they would have been able to access to get the kits correct in the first place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nick Posted January 31, 2023 Author Share Posted January 31, 2023 15 minutes ago, Noel Smith said: Considering that of all the classic racing cars that still exist there are many examples of the actual Bugatti 35B car that they would have been able to access to get the kits correct in the first place. Thanks Noel, I've done a few of these now, and I must say this has been the easiest because of the wealth of information, modern drawings and parts catalogues available. I'm just sat here on the internet, and so far I've found everything I've looked for fairly easily which isn't usually the case. Pics of the gearbox coming soon too BTW. Nick 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nick Posted January 31, 2023 Author Share Posted January 31, 2023 piccies as promised, Our Italian friends didn't put a great deal of effort into this it seems. Not very visible in the end I guess, but hey. Kit Version:- My drawing In fairness, you do have to study it, at first glance 'its just a square box' but actually, it's very complex when you look at it properly. Nick 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vesa Jussila Posted January 31, 2023 Share Posted January 31, 2023 Looks completely two different parts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nick Posted January 31, 2023 Author Share Posted January 31, 2023 that's just about done now then. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nick Posted January 31, 2023 Author Share Posted January 31, 2023 Just noticed that Itlaeri also have the front face of the gearbox reversed too (or I do?! don't think I do though) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colin Posted January 31, 2023 Share Posted January 31, 2023 22 hours ago, Nick851 said: I hope to end up with one nice Type 35 and one not so nice! MFH kits usually need a lot of fettling and sometimes bits don't actually fit. I'd be very interested in a replacement engine too (depending on cost!). Same here, although I don't have the kit yet, interested but it will all be down to cost. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nick Posted February 1, 2023 Author Share Posted February 1, 2023 Fun and games making the engine fit now. I have re-scaled mine from true 1/12th to match the Italeri version broadly, but have discovered inaccuracies in their chassis geometry now. The relative widths of the crankcase crossmembers and where they meet the chassis are out of proportion in the kit. Basically I am having to stretch the width of my (accurate) front crossmember to match the over-wide chassis Italeri Chassis at this point, It's not much, only about 105% but still annoying as its a complex shape to remodel. The fun continues. Nick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
albergman Posted February 1, 2023 Share Posted February 1, 2023 I'm starting to see a new life for you Nick ... righting all the wrongs in the world!! I'm sending you my list. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nick Posted February 1, 2023 Author Share Posted February 1, 2023 1 minute ago, albergman said: I'm starting to see a new life for you Nick ... righting all the wrongs in the world!! I'm sending you my list. Thanks Frank. I'm assuming you'll be providing the necessary nuclear weapons as well then? Joking aside, the re-occurring problem I'm having is finding a place to stop with these things. Once you correct something, it always seems to snowball into a bunch of other stuff and becomes never ending. Nick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nick Posted February 1, 2023 Author Share Posted February 1, 2023 Finally sussed out all the hard-to-see bits on the back of the gearbox. I knew there was some kind of Torque arrangement between the gearbox and differential hence the big leather lumps but I couldn't find any kind of Torque arm it connected to? turns out its a massive girder affair that I had assumed was part of the chassis, fair play to Italeri they have modelled it -49A here although I don't think they have understood what it is or what it does based on the haphazard way it is attached to the chassis in the kit. I'll no doubt end up modelling this next, then the diff, etc, etc. Nick 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noel Smith Posted February 1, 2023 Share Posted February 1, 2023 I think I can feel an Unobtainium complete definitive 100 per cent accurate Bugatti Type 35 kit coming soon at this rate! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nick Posted February 2, 2023 Author Share Posted February 2, 2023 Got the Clutch done today. I decided to go for the authentic, original wet-plate design, with no starter motor gearing. My logic being, it makes no sense to incorporate the teeth on the clutch housing without including a modern starter motor, which I don't want to do. I know Italeri Have done this, but it doesn't make sense to me. If I had the real car, I would absolutely want an electric starter, but I can't see me having to hand-crank the model, so why not make it original and authentic? Plus I think it looks a bit more 'busier' and period than the modern dry clutch. I'm omitting the fixings (nuts, bolts etc) from these drawings, as when I print them, they are all batched up anyway into rows. The drawings look better with them in place of course, but all the modelled threads and complexity of repeating many, many complex bodies really slows the CAD workflow down if anyone was wondering why they are missing I always produce the bolts as separate items, as the crisp demarcation of colour you get by painting them separately, I think makes all the difference in the finished model. They don't look 'moulded in' because, well, they're not! Thanks for following my continuing descent into detail madness with this! Nick 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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