cmatthewbacon Posted February 14 Author Share Posted February 14 Does anyone have a decent picture of the oil pump on a 72D (or other DFV?) in situ? I find it slightly hard to believe that 5 of the 6 ends of these braided pipes are connected into the fittings with the red conical nut and blue hex nut that you can see above, and one is suppose just to go into a hole.... especially since the length is marginal to fix at both ends. The only pictures I have with a clear view of the pump show the engine out of the 72, and all the fixing points for the pipework are just capped off with red plastic covers. In the absence of evidence, I'll probably just make one anyway, because it'll help with the length problem and be pretty well out of sight when everything outboard is fitted! best, M. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KeithAnthony Posted February 14 Share Posted February 14 (edited) 14 hours ago, cmatthewbacon said: @KeithAnthony or anyone else… any tips on using the braided tubes? Mine are completely flat. I’ve run some solder through the larger diameter one, but the other two are being more stubborn… best, M. Yes, they arrive very flat. I just gently squeezed them into shape, working along the hose and back until it was round. I have finished apart from bodywork and bits, and have yet to find where hose BC-2 goes! Can't see I have missed it anywhere. Edited February 14 by KeithAnthony Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KeithAnthony Posted February 14 Share Posted February 14 11 hours ago, Schummie said: A lot of work Impressive! Are you doing same with head covers? It will be interesting to see if a detailing kit appears but it may be to late for many. Excuse to do another! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cmatthewbacon Posted February 14 Author Share Posted February 14 22 minutes ago, KeithAnthony said: Yes, they arrive very flat. I just gently squeezed them into shape, working along the hose and back until it was round. I have finished apart from bodywork and bits, and have yet to find where hose BC-2 goes! Can't see I have missed it anywhere. Hi, @KeithAnthony I think BC-2 runs from the smaller fitting on the front of the oil tank across to the right and down to red and blue fitting at the bottom rear of the block on the right hand side more or less where the black exhaust headers converge in the silver piece. best, M. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schummie Posted February 14 Share Posted February 14 5 minutes ago, KeithAnthony said: Impressive! Are you doing same with head covers? It will be interesting to see if a detailing kit appears but it may be to late for many. Excuse to do another! Don’t know yet. The bolts in the center are very detailed casted, so there it doesn’ bring much. The allen bolts on the edges are so little that the smallest dummies are still to big. But in general I will try to mod the engine as far as possible, because in this model the engine stays very visible. On the Internet are lots of pictures on this engine. So one can see the right colors and connections. But there are also a lot of variations. Even from race to race. But I feel that the real engine is made from metal. And nothing beats the real structure, look and colour of the real metal. So when we have the luxery of real metal in this kit, why paint it like a plastic kit. goes also from some parts of the suspension, and the gearbox. And indeed, very time consuming. But the more hours I spend on the model, the better value (per hour) from this expensieve kit. I also will replace the visual phillips screws, to make it look more real. But even if you build this OOB, it still remains a fine model. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schummie Posted February 14 Share Posted February 14 1 hour ago, KeithAnthony said: Impressive! Are you doing same with head covers? It will be interesting to see if a detailing kit appears but it may be to late for many. Excuse to do another! Don’t know yet. The bolts in the center are very detailed casted, so there it doesn’ bring much. The allen bolts on the edges are so little that the smallest dummies are still to big. But in general I will try to mod the engine as far as possible, because in this model the engine stays very visible. On the Internet are lots of pictures on this engine. So one can see the right colors and connections. But there are also a lot of variations. Even from race to race. But I feel that the real engine is made from metal. And nothing beats the real structure, look and colour of the real metal. So when we have the luxery of real metal in this kit, why paint it like a plastic kit. goes also from some parts of the suspension, and the gearbox. And indeed, very time consuming. But the more hours I spend on the model, the better value (per hour) from this expensieve kit. I also will replace the visual phillips screws, to make it look more real. But even if you build this OOB, it still remains a fine model. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KeithAnthony Posted February 14 Share Posted February 14 3 hours ago, cmatthewbacon said: Hi, @KeithAnthony I think BC-2 runs from the smaller fitting on the front of the oil tank across to the right and down to red and blue fitting at the bottom rear of the block on the right hand side more or less where the black exhaust headers converge in the silver piece. best, M. Thanks, yes, I have fitted that. As there are two BC-1's, perhaps I got two BC-2's by mistake. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malc2 Posted February 14 Share Posted February 14 (edited) 5 hours ago, cmatthewbacon said: Does anyone have a decent picture of the oil pump on a 72D (or other DFV?) in situ? I find it slightly hard to believe that 5 of the 6 ends of these braided pipes are connected into the fittings with the red conical nut and blue hex nut that you can see above, and one is suppose just to go into a hole.... best, M. I believe you are correct in assuming there would be an AN fitting (thats what the red/blue connectors are called) at each end of all the oil lines. Note in the pic below that there is a short connector from the oil pump that the AN fitting screws in to, not having the kit means I do not know what is provided for this? Malc. Edited February 14 by Malc2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cmatthewbacon Posted February 14 Author Share Posted February 14 Ah-ha! Thank you very much @Malc2 ... this is what you get: So I think I need a red collar and a silver nut before you get to the vertical bit that's on the end of the top cast pipe above. The length problem is not as bad as I thought. Although the walkaround of the 72E I have shows the hose riding over the top inboard of the brake disc, other pictures of the D in '72 show it threads through behind the disc at the bottom... a much straighter, and a bit shorter, run. best, M. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KeithAnthony Posted February 14 Share Posted February 14 4 hours ago, Schummie said: engine stays very visible. The cam covers stay very visible, as do the exhausts, but the block itself is a bit hidden. A very visible part I spent time on is the collector for the four exhaust pipes, as it has some visible seams to fill. It is very difficult on colours. A lot of the original detail engine pics are b&w. Studying three books specific to the 72, it is clear, as you say, things changed from build to build and race to race. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cmatthewbacon Posted February 15 Author Share Posted February 15 For such a small thing, this took rather a long time: Sprue, plastic card, a deal of filing and some turning lathe-like in a drill... one small AN fitting... Yes, there is a deal of filling and sanding to get the exhaust convergers/collectors seamless... The braided hoses are now all connected at both ends, though I am wondering if my scratch built one is tough enough. The whole assembly is getting quite hard to handle now... best, M. 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cmatthewbacon Posted February 15 Author Share Posted February 15 @KeithAnthony is there any reason why I shouldn't install the velocity stacks now, do you think? I'd like to be able to turn the whole thing upside down while working on the rear suspension stages, and I'm worried about breaking one or more of the fuel injectors. It looks like the stacks would shield them and be better weight bearers, even though I'm flipping it onto a waffle foam nest... best, M. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KeithAnthony Posted February 15 Share Posted February 15 8 minutes ago, cmatthewbacon said: is there any reason why None at all. The injectors are vulnerable and the trumpets do make them more robust. I didn't, but you could try clipping the base of the airbag which would help. Good job on exhaust collectors! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cmatthewbacon Posted February 15 Author Share Posted February 15 14 minutes ago, KeithAnthony said: None at all. The injectors are vulnerable and the trumpets do make them more robust. I didn't, but you could try clipping the base of the airbag which would help. Good job on exhaust collectors! Excellent news, and thanks. I’m being thick here, but… “airbag”? Where/which bit is that? best, M. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KeithAnthony Posted February 16 Share Posted February 16 10 hours ago, cmatthewbacon said: airbag” Ooop's! Autocorrect - should be Airbox, sorry. There is a plate that snaps on and will eventually be cemented to Airbox. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Longueville Jacques Posted February 16 Share Posted February 16 Hallo, as I mentioned before, I cannot see how the rear torsion spring suspension could work, but even worse there will not be any movement in the rear suspension at all! The pushrods DC-43 prevent all movement. In my humble opinion this is a shame, I know that in modern formula 1 cars the movement of the suspension is very limited, but no suspension at all is not acceptable. The only way I can find to allow some suspension travel is to disconnect the pushrods DC-43 (page 13 of the instructions). Anyone a better idea? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cmatthewbacon Posted February 16 Author Share Posted February 16 Given the weight of the thing, the “non-scale” strength of the materials and resistance of scale springs etc. and the not prototypical way it’s all fixed together, I think if you did get it to articulate, it would sink to its lowest level on the bump stops and stay there in short order… I just don’t think you can have it looking like the real thing parked at Classic Team Lotus, and fully functional at the same time… best, M. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schummie Posted February 16 Share Posted February 16 Did some work on the covers. Putting real allen heads here would do more harm than good, given the sanding and the filing in tight places. Dummy bolts all placed at both sides. With some work you can greatly improve the brake discs. Before: And after. I put the disc in the elecric drill, and removed the paint with sand paper, from 500 to 1000. I now have some steel whool in water. It wil rust, and the vent holes will be treated with this real rust. All this costs almost nothing apart from time. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smallworld Posted February 16 Share Posted February 16 (edited) Sadly I have decided not to continue with my Lotus build. Just find it too challenging even though I have built 2 other Pocher kits. So if anyone is interested I shall be putting it on Ebay this coming weekend as a part built kit. Not sure if I will auction or set a fixed price. Edited February 16 by Smallworld Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schummie Posted February 17 Share Posted February 17 Some reference pics for the engine and the pumps at the underside. 2 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KeithAnthony Posted February 18 Share Posted February 18 Could someone do me a favour please, and measure the struts BR-2 hole centre to hole centre. Trying to fit rear wing and it is turning out to be impossible, and can't see that I have done anything incorrectly. With the wing set at an angle with "Firestone' on the end plate horizontal the struts are short. Mine measure 48.5mm, and they need to be around 65mm. Attach pic. Thanks.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cmatthewbacon Posted February 18 Author Share Posted February 18 24 minutes ago, KeithAnthony said: the struts are short. Mine measure 48.5mm, and they need to be around 65mm. Mine are 50mm… but… THEY EXTEND! Twist the two flat end gently in opposite directions, and after a slight “snap” you can slide one half out of the other to whatever length you need… Best, M. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KeithAnthony Posted February 18 Share Posted February 18 51 minutes ago, cmatthewbacon said: THEY EXTEND! Great - how embarrassing! I did look at that, as the 'thin' (inner) tube seems shorter than in the Instructions and some pics, and I tried gently but nothing happened. Many thanks! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cmatthewbacon Posted February 18 Author Share Posted February 18 Tamiya Gloss Black from a can, topped off with MiG A*Stand chrome, pale burnt metal, and some blue and purple AK True Metal... It's not perfect, but it's a lot better than the original screwed together silver bits... Time to start the wheel carriers. My plan was to put the boots on the drive shafts loose, the attach the bottom of the carriers from underneath with shocks fitted, and fold up the carrier trapping the drive shafts and pin in place with the one connector shaft at the top (DCB-1). This more or less worked. BUT... the instructions are wrong again, both the original AND the revised version. On the inside of the wheel carrier at the bottom are two U-shaped cast brackets. The instructions would have you fit the lower silver rods into the centre of these brackets. Which looks logical, but is incorrect. The ends of the rods screw into the lower-most holes on the outside faces of the wheel carrier as shown above. The lower end of the shock absorber screws into the outer face of the forward bracket (not into middle). And the anti-roll bar extensions (M-1 and M-2) will screw into the middle gap in the rear bracket when the time comes. From the top. The silver pin (DCB-1) locates the top of the wheel carrier to the upper suspension arm. The fit of the shock seems a bit marginal to me, and I can't see why it has a spring in it, since there's no articulation in the assembly. Uh-oh! There was a musical "ping" as I was working the right hand carrier into position... I've been protecting these lower links (DC-50) since page 11, and it'd have been safe once I got the other wheel carrier in place. Rats. I see some drilling, pinning and Araldite in the near future. At least that H shaped plate on the bottom all four connect to is easy to loosen to get access to the screws holding them in place... best, M. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noel Smith Posted February 19 Share Posted February 19 Small world You have invested a lot in your kit. Rather than sell it part built at a loss, make a few smaller kits to get a bit more confidence before tackling it. I have heard that the instructions are a bit wanting in places and Hornby I believe have worked on correcting them. Maybe contacting them for a updated set might help. Then come back to it later. HTH. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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