Building the Pocher 1/8 Lotus 72D, Emerson Fittipaldi 1972

[cmatthewbacon]

And for anyone following along, Pay attention to the instructions when you begin adding tubes and junctions after bringing the engine and transmission together (Page 14, second stage). On mine the disk (H-8) that fills the open end of the cylindrical accumulator (J-3) was painted silver on the wrong side. The central socket should be on the outside, as shown in the instructions. My references show no evidence that the inboard face was black, Even if it was, why then paint the invisible interior of the part silver? I don't know if that's just my sample of the kit, or whether it's endemic....

 

best,

M.

[Longueville Jacques]

Hallo British community,
I am in Belgium, and I assembled the Pocher Lotus up to page 14 without major drawbacks.

The many highly detailed photographs you posted in this topic were helpful to overcome the many weaknesses in the instructions.

Thanks for that!

Still, I have two questions:

1. I am surprised to see that the torsion bar suspension is not designed to work, or did I do something wrong in the assembly?

I checked with the Tamiya instructions, and their construction is different and clearly meant to work correctly.

Is this a deliberate simplification by Pocher?

2. On page 15 I am getting confused about the connections of the tubing. Did anyone already figure out how to do this correctly, and maybe made some pictures ?

Jacques

[KeithAnthony]

47 minutes ago, Longueville Jacques said:

Still, I have two questions:

Hi Jacques

1. The torsion bar suspension doesn't work. In fact there are no torsion bars modeled at the front. Personally, I do not see how a working system could be realistically modeled as part of a kit, as the 'pre-torsion' the bars would need would be very precise. Remember also the 'real' system on the Lotus 72 has the bar inside a tube.

2. The instructions are accurate, but my advice we be to cut all lengths 20mm longer and trim later. I fixed one end first and let the glue set fully before trimming and fixing the other end. The fixing is very marginal, so I would try and protect 'spark plug' end (I used VMS Black glue and used masking tape to hold/protect leads on cylinder head). I fed the leads under the throttle plate , but see Pocher have just led them to distributor 

 

[elderly]

I know that it’s been mentioned before but the way that the front tyre is located on the rim,

does look rather odd in that screen grab and the video itself.

 

Does the 1/12 Tamiya look similar?

Edited February 12, 2023 by elderly

[cmatthewbacon]

Re the suspension, there’s a segment in the Hornby Model World programme where the first prototype model arrives from China, and the right rear wheel and some suspension parts have broken free in transit. The designer says it’s clearly too weak for the weight and he has to redesign that area. So it may have been more accurate/workable in the first attempt. Essentially at this scale most of the parts on the real thing are on the model, but the materials don’t have the strength… and as pointed out, it’s pretty darn heavy!

best,

M.

[Schummie]

Hello all,

I’m a newby here, but I’m in the early stages of my model. As I have a lot experience with the 1/43 Tameo metal kits, I try to imply some things on this model.

it has al lot of potential I think. But I find some of the paint work a bit toy like.

The silver paint of the engine and the black on the valve covers and the gear box for example.

So I removed the paint. And treated the valve covers with gun metal acid. 
I got a very “real” result. After all, the engine is real metal. Why hide it under metal paint?

I’m happy to post pictures of the proces, but I have to find out how to do it. 
Do I have to post my pictures on a special site?

[SprueMan]

1 hour ago, Schummie said:

Hello all,

I’m a newby here, but I’m in the early stages of my model. As I have a lot experience with the 1/43 Tameo metal kits, I try to imply some things on this model.

it has al lot of potential I think. But I find some of the paint work a bit toy like.

The silver paint of the engine and the black on the valve covers and the gear box for example.

So I removed the paint. And treated the valve covers with gun metal acid. 
I got a very “real” result. After all, the engine is real metal. Why hide it under metal paint?

I’m happy to post pictures of the proces, but I have to find out how to do it. 
Do I have to post my pictures on a special site?

There is info here:

https://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/forum/15-faqs/

 

If you are posting pictures of your model, maybe best to do it in your own thread

[KeithAnthony]

21 minutes ago, SprueMan said:

 

If you are posting pictures of your model, maybe best to do it in your own thread

Why?

[KeithAnthony]

1 hour ago, Schummie said:

The silver paint of the engine

I didn't think main engine block was painted, but agree that if you want to there is a lot that could be enhanced with painting/re-painting. ~some easy, some not so.

[Dinky]

I'm working on the front axle, nothing fits perfectly. It is actually all tense, especially the suspension with the rods. Do you also have that experience?

 

Did anyone figure out the color code for the golden paint?

[KeithAnthony]

1 hour ago, Dinky said:

Do you also have that experience?

Can't remember any major issues. I took the approach it had to be built, rather than just put together. Are you cleaning any 'flash' of castings, including holes? Some of the tolerances are very tight, and seems to me no allowance was made for coatings, so these need removing on some mating faces.

 

It would be great to find a gold match colour! 

[cmatthewbacon]

Hi, all... made some good progress on a complicated bit of plumbing today. Just to be clear, although this is my WIP thread, technically, I have no problem with anyone posting information or images that will help other people build this impressive kit successfully. It's better that the info is all in one place, rather than scattered over multiple threads.

 

 

Re my previous post, I think this is what the ?accumulator? (H-8 and J-3) is meant to look like.

 

 

Out if the box, this is what the distributor/fuel pump looks like. I wasn't happy, and neither were my references.

 

 

After a coat of Humbrol 56 Aluminium and a wash of the fuel pump end with  Citadel Agrax Earthshade, this is what it looks like now.

 

The fuel lines and ignition lead set-up is rather complex. This is how I decided to make a start.

 

 

All the lengths of tube TU-1 will be labelled. The original instructions have TU-1 for the fuel lines and TU-2 for the plug wires. This is WRONG. All the tubes in this section are TU-1.

 

 

The instructions aren't clear, but all these tubes thread UNDER the silver plates over the heads between the injectors and induction trumpets. If you label then as I have, they all need to go in from the outside, because you can't thread them with the tags in place. Give yourself more length than the instructions suggest on all the tubes, but especially 1 and 2 and 5 and 6. There's quite a lot of room for manoeuvre here, especially with a bit more "slack", so I'd fit the fuel pipes without gluing the pump in place, and then connect the plug wires to the distributor, lowest (deepest in the valley between cylinders) first and fix the unit as late as possible.

 

All the plug wires go through the rearmost gap under the plate to the distributor. The fuel lines to the forward cylinders go through the next gap at the rear. The fuel lines to the rear cylinders go through the third gap, nearer the front, and then come back to the rear pair of injectors on each side.

 

 

 

The fuel lines are reasonably tight. You can see above the gaps they thread through under the silver plate.

 

 

Each fuel line is shortened to be a reasonably tight fit, and glued in place with black rubber superglue.

 

 

Don't forget the control lever cross-brace (silver, M-6, connects to the lever on the front of the fuel-pump/distributor unit), the pipe connector on the front of the right cylinder head (M-28, black), and to connect the loose tube from the interior front of the right cylinder head to the nipple facing forward at the top front of the fuel pump unit.

 

 

 

 

With the the plug ends of the ignition wires attached, you can pull them back at the distributor to  set them close to the cylinder head.

 

 

 

 

 

 

So it will then look somewhat like the above...

 

 

 

Finally for p16, the box full of electronics sits on top of the distributor/fuel pump unit, and the tube connecting the accumulator fits on the outside front left. In the box, it's plain black, but references suggest a slightly more colourful version with metallic blue connectors and brass accents to the black tube.

 

EDIT: Too late for me, but if you're following through this thread while building, some new information from @PaulP posted in your future

 

"I can help you with the King lead question. The manual does actually show it connecting to the distributor on page 16 section 1 and then the end of the coil (M20) in section 2 on the same page. On the real car at rear of the electronic  box it is actually a fairly standard coil.

 

As Pocher show the fuel injection lines and ignition leads the engine would never run!

A Cosworth DFV has a 1 8 3 6 4 5 2 7 firing sequence and the distributor and injection pump rotate anti clockwise looking forward. 

The cylinders are  looking forward again:  5         1

                                                                      6         2

                                                                      7         3

                                                                      8         4

 

The exhaust pipes are actually embossed correctly with the cylinder numbers close to were they fix to the head. All this means that the numbering for the fuel lines and ignition leads is totally wrong! I have assumed that Pocher have got Number 1 position correct and worked from there. I can post a scan of the correct number sequences if anybody would like it."

 

If you have already wired the distributor as Pocher would have it, and it's still accessible (Mine isn't since it's thoroughly embedded in surrounding structure), then this is how you need to move the wires around:

 

 

 

The "king lead" is a short length of TU-1 from the centre of the distributor to the coil top on the back of the electronics box above.

 

best,

M.

Edited February 23, 2023 by cmatthewbacon
New (better) info on distributor wiring

[cmatthewbacon]

Having baked the tyres on the radiator for at least 6 hours, I thought I'd get these done as well. Normal polystyrene cement doesn't touch the plastic, but good old EMA Plastic Weld does the trick, so I suspect the mouldings are actually ABS...

 

 

The "outstanding" rim on the front is prototypical, and doesn't actually look as obvious as it does here...

 

best,

M.

[KeithAnthony]

11 hours ago, cmatthewbacon said:

Just to be clear, although this is my WIP thread, technically, I have no problem with anyone posting information or images that will help other people build this impressive kit successfully. It's better that the info is all in one place, rather than scattered over multiple threads.

Thank you for confirming this. Had assumed this to be the case as the sensible approach.

[Dinky]

12 hours ago, cmatthewbacon said:

Having baked the tyres on the radiator for at least 6 hours, I thought I'd get these done as well. Normal polystyrene cement doesn't touch the plastic, but good old EMA Plastic Weld does the trick, so I suspect the mouldings are actually ABS...

 

 

Thanks for sharing all the pictures, how much rim is now on the inside? 
Does it stick out very much? 

[cmatthewbacon]

18 minutes ago, Dinky said:

Thanks for sharing all the pictures, how much rim is now on the inside? 
Does it stick out very much? 

Hi.... the rim on the fronts is a bit less than 1mm proud on the outside, and 1mm exactly on the inside. I don't think it looks far off:

 

https://www.ultimatecarpage.com/img/Lotus-72-Cosworth-3657.html

 

best,

M.

[Dinky]

Thanks, thats not bad. The Pocher website looks much worse 

 

[Scouser]

On 2/7/2023 at 5:01 AM, JamesP said:

The kit featured in the latest episode of Hornby: A Model World. 

Not awfully impressed with the fact that those of us on company networks or behind personal firewalls / privacy software are blocked from watching this video. I get a message about turning off ad-blockers which I think is a bit of cheek when I'm watching something that, by nature, IS an ad.

 

Why on earth don't they make it available on Youtube after the broadcast?

 

Ah well, it's far from my only complaint about Hornby, LOL

[Scouser]

On 2/9/2023 at 5:18 AM, JamesP said:

Well now having watched the Hornby episode it's clear why the instructions are bad - you never let the engineer write the documentation! Whether it's coding or model kits it's a bad idea as they are always biased by their knowledge and experience  - I know my docs are terrible!

 

Someone I used to know was charged with writing field service manuals for the army, mostly stuff having to do with small engines. He would be shipped the unit in question and, having never seen it before, would tear it down and document the process of overhaul, replacement of routine maintenance items, etc. Point being no soldier in the field could be expected to follow a manual written by the people who engineered the thing to begin with.

[cmatthewbacon]

32 minutes ago, Scouser said:

Why on earth don't they make it available on Youtube after the broadcast?

Ah well, it's far from my only complaint about Hornby, LOL

 

To be fair, it's not Hornby's fault. The series is on Yesterday, which is one of UKTV's channels, along with Dave, Alibi, Eden, Gold, Drama and a bunch of others. They make their money primarily by injecting new ads into classic TV, so endless re-runs are their thing. Hornby: A Model World is one of their own commissioned shows (they know their audience...) so they want to milk it for all it's worth. Giving it away on YouTube doesn't fit with their business model...

 

best,

M.

[brady]

Re: the Hobbyco video from Nuremberg at the top of this page. I'm sure it got handled a lot by the ToyFair crowd, but it seems like they could have taken a few minutes to clean the dirt and heavy fingerprints off the model before it was featured in a video? Especially the front wing and sidepods.

Edited February 13, 2023 by brady

[cmatthewbacon]

@KeithAnthony or anyone else… any tips on using the braided tubes? Mine are completely flat. I’ve run some solder through the larger diameter one, but the other two are being more stubborn…

best,

M.

[cmatthewbacon]

Slow progress this evening...

 

 

This is the gear changing linkage. The silver jointed rod (H-16) runs the length of the engine to the front, and fits into a hole at the front of the black cylinder on the transmission (H-13). That cylinder is a sloppy fit. The adjustment bolt housing should be horizontal -- I had to trim away a bit on the inner side to stop it fouling the flange on the transmission casing behind. I decided not to glue the linkage rod in place at this point; it's not at all clear how it needs to be rotated to join whatever it connects to at the other end, or exactly where that might be...

 

 

The braided hoses are, to say the least, a bit recalcitrant. In their bags, they are completely flat, and the ends have been dipped in glue. Flat looks completely wrong, so I plumped them up with pliers, and finally managed to get some flexible wire through the middle. I thought they'd be difficult to fix into the fittings on the engine and the oil system, so after wracking my brains for a while, I fitted cut down "bootlace ferrules" on all the ends. I normally use them for exhausts or velocity stacks on 1/24 builds, and I think this is the first time I've actually used them for what they are designed to do on the end of a wire...

 

I decided I'd connect the upper ends firmly so I could be quite robust routing and bending to get the lower ends in place, so I've super-glued these and will leave messing with the other ends until tomorrow... It also means if I've messed up the threading, I've got a lose end I can move to re-route them when I check my references again.

 

best,

M.

[Schummie]

Here's what I mean with my efforts to make use of the metal kit.

 

First I tried if the acid which makes real gum metal works with this alloy.

 

 

It works. Most of the paint is still there. After the acid, it first is brown. After brushing and polishing it turns in the right color.

 

The original valve covers.

 

 

 

 

Good paint work by Pocher. A lengthy oven cleaner bath did the trick. Paint removed from engine parts.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Valve covers without paint and cleaned.

 

 

After the acid treatment and polishing the Ford logo.

 

 

 

 

Removing the casted bolts from the exhaust manifolds.

 

 

Drilling holes instead.

 

 

 

And put in the dummy bolts. And this 32 times for both sides.

A lot of work. But there is a lot of detail in the casting under the paint.

 

 

 

A lot of work, but together with the mods I already saw here, you can improve the kit quite a lot.

 

 

 

[PaulP]

Hi, I have been reading this thread for some weeks now as I commence the build. I have just turned 66 and this is the first modelling (appart from some basic Airfix kits with my daughter when she was younger) I have done for about 45 years!

 

Thank you to everbody for all the useful tips, especially the OP, M.

 

I have a question regarding the brake line at the rear. To get the nice shape have people been using fuse wire or similar to give the floppy tubing some rigidity? Also what glue are people using for it please?