Building the Pocher 1/8 Lotus 72D, Emerson Fittipaldi 1972

[Schummie]

12 hours ago, Bosco said:

To say the Lotus will be a test of patience is putting it mildly. And paying attention to your advice on the build is paramount. I already made my first mistake that thankfully was correctable. Parts N1-7L and N1-7S looked so close that I managed to put them on the wrong sides. Parts like these, I will put a drop of super glue on the inside so they won't fall out. So I had to break them free and install properly. Wonder what excitement will await me further down the road!!!

Bosco

Well, to comfort you, I made the same mistake. I also used CA and lost a lot of time to correct this. There is a lot to be said on the manual. But when Pocher includes two different numbers on a left and right variant of a part, be assured that there is a difference.

Also @Bosco, thanks for the display tip. There is one underway to the Netherlands. They also have free shipping. 
 

As for the springs in the pedal box. Glue the springs with a drop ca to the bottom plate. This way you can assemble the total quite easily.

Found out the hard way after losing a spring while trying to fiddle it in while compressing it.

It did wat springs do. It sprung away, ans is now somewhere lost in my mancave.

[Griph]

28 minutes ago, Schummie said:

Well, to comfort you, I made the same mistake. I also used CA and lost a lot of time to correct this. There is a lot to be said on the manual. But when Pocher includes two different numbers on a left and right variant of a part, be assured that there is a difference.

Also @Bosco, thanks for the display tip. There is one underway to the Netherlands. They also have free shipping. 
 

As for the springs in the pedal box. Glue the springs with a drop ca to the bottom plate. This way you can assemble the total quite easily.

Found out the hard way after losing a spring while trying to fiddle it in while compressing it.

It did wat springs do. It sprung away, ans is now somewhere lost in my mancave.

Also lost one of my Springs! Have now glued the pedals in place as there was no way I would ever be reaching them to activate them!

[brady]

Making your own replacement springs is easy, especially if they are mostly cosmetic. Take some craft store wire and wrap tightly around an appropriate diameter rod. Stretch to the length you need.

[Griph]

21 hours ago, brady said:

Making your own replacement springs is easy, especially if they are mostly cosmetic. Take some craft store wire and wrap tightly around an appropriate diameter rod. Stretch to the length you need.

I'm sure that springs can be easy to make, provided you have the dexterity, and they aren't too small.  These are tiny, and the wire thinner than a human hair.  Once I lost one of these springs, it was never going to be found or replaced. I've glued the pedals in place as the are never going to get operated, and its not like there are on board electrics to activate brake lights etc.  A compromise yes, but I dont think it detracts from the model!

[Griph]

On 03/03/2023 at 22:34, cmatthewbacon said:

 

The brake line (J-1) locates into the two recesses in the front faces of the callipers as shown above. It's springy, but will clip into place before applying super glue.

Hi Matt
 

Really enjoying following your progress.  It is of enormous help to me.  I've fitted the J-1 piece, but I was bamboozled by not having a recess for it in the right hand caliper.  If these had been plastic, I would have drilled a hole, however, I don't have a small power drill to enable me to do this on the diecast piece, I have been surprised just how much of this car is metal. 

From the above photo, you haven't fitted the roll bar assembly (parts H-1, M-9, M-10 and M-15).  Part M-1 fits between J-1 and the subframe DCA-17.  I found this quite fiddly to fit as the M-15 links slot over the bar of the upper wishbones DC-53 and 54, and the pegs on the end of part H-1.  In order to fit M-15 to the wishbones, I had to disassemble the wishbone/hub assembly, and until parts M-9 and M-10 are fitted, the whole thing was floating! I also found the screws F to these latter parts did not bite, making a firm fixing into DCA-17 and had to resort to a spot of CA glue in the screw hole!

 

[cmatthewbacon]

Thanks, @Griph.... that's duly sorted. I've also edited back down the thread to suggest fitting the links before fixing the upper A-arms to the subframe.

 

best,

M.

[Dinky]

6 hours ago, Griph said:

Also found the screws F to these latter parts did not bite, making a firm fixing into DCA-17 and had to resort to a spot of CA glue in the screw hole!

 

Same here indeed

[Griph]

On 03/03/2023 at 22:34, cmatthewbacon said:

 

 

 

The wheel carriers fit straightforwardly. As usual, it's easier if you put all the screws in before assembling, take them apart, and re-assemble in position. I used rubber-reinforced CA to hold the boots in place. It you want the steering to articulate fully and turn the wheels with the steering wheel, you need to rotate the universal joints so the axes at both ends are vertical. It's easy enough to do before you fix the suspension arms and rubber boots, and if your steering isn't working over the range you'd expect you can still rotate the main wheels after you've put them in place but it becomes more of a trial and error process. To get the outer boots in place, grab the shaft with tweezers or pliers inboard of the boot and squish it as far towards the hub as you can. Then you can work the outboard edge and it will pop over the hub. Just make sure the edge is not caught by the axial pin in the far end of the shaft. The boot material is very flexible, so be merciless with the tweezers...

 

 

The brake line (J-1) locates into the two recesses in the front faces of the callipers as shown above. It's springy, but will clip into place before applying super glue.

 

 

Fixing the front subframe brings a lot of parts together. The screw heads in the rear face of the subframe locate into gaps in the front faces of the body sides. It takes some squeezing and flexing to get them in and the location holes (B) lining up. The two tabs on the frame fit into slots in the body baseplate (C) which really help locate the frame. Those struts which I thought were brake lines (A) aren't; they are structural reinforcements and the open ends fit over a couple of stubs on the body baseplate.The pins on the bottom of the pedal box locate into the holes immediately behind the forward screws (B) and can be fixed with superglue.

 

 

 

 

Which brings us to the end of Page 28... and I couldn't resist:

 

 

It really is a big beast. There will now be a short hiatus while I build some MUCH smaller cars for a magazine...

 

best,

M.

Regarding your comments on steering, the problem is that when the wheels rotate, the rods rotate also. Once the rods move outside of vertical on either side, they actively lock up the steering. Either you can have the wheels rotate in a straight line, or the wheels steering. It doesn’t seem like you can have both. You can re-rotate the wheels to align the rods. But as soon as the wheels rotate you have the problem back again.  This is a design issue that clearly wasn’t resolved.
 

Also the assembly is highly detailed but quite delicate. Without functional torsion bars, the suspension doesn’t work. It’s best not to push down on the 72 expecting it to move, it doesn’t and there is a risk of crunchy noises!!  It’s a static model after all! 
 

The screws holding the wishbones onto the subframe were a little imprecise in terms of length and should have been slightly longer to get a firm fix, I had to replace one screw with a bigger one!

[Schummie]

Some pictures of my progress. Sometimes a step back to go forward again. Intriging kit.

 

The distibuter made a bit older.

 

 

Some work on the forward subframe.

 

 

Paint taken of the pedals.

 

 

Also paint removed from the steering parts and polished.

 

 

 

 

Parts of the pedal box before installing.

 

 

 

Radiators in the kit are glossy black. I airbrushed them aluminium. I will use a wash to darke them a little.

 

 

 

Opened up the braided wire with a steel wire. Then a soft silver wire inserted. That way I later kan bend the braided wire without problems.

 

 

Radiator in the oil cooler. Wash not yet applied.

 

 

The heads of the allen bolts are too high for installing the oil cooler.

 

 

Replace them with some brass hex bolts. Blackened them with acid.

 

 

The result.

 

 

 

For making brake pads, I used some IKEA table protectors of cork. The have exactly the right thickness.

 

 

 

The result. The pads will be made a bit darker later.

 

 

 

 

From some more parts the paint removed and polished.  One can see the detailed casting.

 

 

 

With help from the instructions and pictures in this forum the oil cooler installed on the gear box. The radiator a bit darkened with a wash.

 

 

 

 

And the end result of this part of the manual.

 

 

 

 

Maybe too many pictures. Let me know if it's too much. Intentions are good.

 

 

[cmatthewbacon]

 

I now have 40 metres of 6mm blue ribbon (it seemed daft given the postage to buy smaller bits for 79p each). As you can see, two shades of blue and both grosgrain and satin finish ribbon. If anyone in the UK is short, PM me with what kind and colour you want, and I can send you a length or two...

 

best,

M.

[Dinky]

On 3/11/2023 at 10:55 PM, Schummie said:

 

 

Nice work on everything Schummie. Just curious, could you fit the cooler on the back with the right top bolt like that?
 

Edited March 13, 2023 by Dinky

[Bosco]

The more I assemble the parts of this model, the more frustrated, disappointed and sorry I ever bought this kit. The fit and finish in some areas are horrible. I just put together parts DCA-20 and DCA-22. They fit good. Then when I try to put D1-5 and D1-6 together, I get a big gap at the bottom that I can't squeeze together.

They dry fit together just fine but not when I try to fit it to the wing support. 

Well I wanted to put some pictures here and I guess I don't know how. How do you insert pictures into this blog???

Bosco

[Schummie]

3 hours ago, Dinky said:

Nice work on everything Schummie. Just curious, could you fit the cooler on the back with the right top bolt like that?
 

I did not. I experienced that I had in the end to fall back on this spot on the kit ultra low phillips screw. 
Not really a problem because this screw is completely hidden by the oil cooler.

Exactly the reason you pointed out.

 

[Schummie]

3 hours ago, Bosco said:

The more I assemble the parts of this model, the more frustrated, disappointed and sorry I ever bought this kit. The fit and finish in some areas are horrible. I just put together parts DCA-20 and DCA-22. They fit good. Then when I try to put D1-5 and D1-6 together, I get a big gap at the bottom that I can't squeeze together.

They dry fit together just fine but not when I try to fit it to the wing support. 

Well I wanted to put some pictures here and I guess I don't know how. How do you insert pictures into this blog???

Bosco

Bosco,

I don’t see my reply so another try.

Try to clean the slots from exces paint. Also the pins can be a bit long for the holes, were also can be too much paint.

Had the same problem, so no dispair. Look at my pictures on this page. After this it fitted fine.

Good luck, and let us know if this helped you out.

[KeithAnthony]

4 hours ago, Bosco said:

The fit and finish in some areas are horrible

I think all the tolerances are for parts without paint. To get a tight fit you need to clean all mating faces back to bare metal..This was very true also for the Ducati model, so just need to get into the Pocher way! 

[Noel Smith]

Paint in holes can cause problems whatever model anyone makes. My trusted method is to use cocktail sticks as tapered bungs in holes that are quite small before painting. Cheap and plentiful.

 

Don't give up Bosco!      Despite the problems you will have a model to be proud of when finished. The kit is a bit.out of my price bracket unfortunately, so I have to admire what all you guys are doing on this thread. I just wish that maybe one day one will come my way and I can use this thread for reference.

 

The old Pochers back in the day were not the easiest of kits to build either!

Edited March 14, 2023 by Noel Smith

[Bosco]

I want to apologize for my harsh rant. I did it in a fit of anger. I forgot one important rule of life that was taught to me over 60 years ago, "If you're standing over a project with a ball peen hammer in your hand ready to strike the project, put it down and go inside and have a beer". Usually this results in your brain figuring it out or you have a nice buzz after 2 or 3 beers. Thanks for the advice on clearing out channels of paint and debris. I'll give it a try.

Bosco

[Noel Smith]

Bosco

Another thought.

I believe that Hornby have had to revise some of the instruction sheets, so it might be worth a email to get updates.

[Bosco]

Noel, thanks. I did see the instruction update before I started. I printed all the revised instructions and they are a real help. Especially when parts are mislabeled. 

[Noel Smith]

Pleased to hear you have the instruction updates Bosco. Good luck with your model.

When you look back at it when finished you will forget about the frustrations and have a sense of pride and relief when to look at it resplendent in its display case or on open display.

It you don't have one, a display case would be a good idea to protect your investment.

[Bosco]

21 hours ago, Noel Smith said:

Pleased to hear you have the instruction updates Bosco. Good luck with your model.

When you look back at it when finished you will forget about the frustrations and have a sense of pride and relief when to look at it resplendent in its display case or on open display.

It you don't have one, a display case would be a good idea to protect your investment.

Noel, if you are thinking of a display case, here is a site that's very reasonable. I'm building the Porsche 917 from IXO Collections and their display case is the cheapest I've ever seen. And it's with free delivery. The Lotus should fit just nicely.

 

https://www.ixocollections.com/en/accessories/64-display-case-porsche-917-kh.html

 

Bosco

[Flying Badger]

Really enjoying this one. Been lurking for quite a while and using it as inspiration to hunt for a good 1:20 Lotus 72D kit for my World Champion's cars build list.

 

Loving the detailed step by step coverage of how this kit actually builds. Sadly this is likely as close as I will get to modelling in this scale as £750 is a tad more than I can justify on a single kit. 

 

Keep the glorious detail coming, I'll be sat here avidly devouring it all along with my popcorn 😉

FB

[cmatthewbacon]

 

Well, that's that (literally) small job done. A pair of Airfix's 1/43 "Starter Set" supercars, coming to (a) Model Car(s) Magazine near you in a couple of months... Time to clear the bench again and get back to work on the big beastie. Are you sure I can't interest anyone in some ribbon for seat belts? I've really got quite a lot now!

best,

M.

[cmatthewbacon]

A couple for denizens of this thread specifically...

 

 

 

Tomorrow will be all about seat belts, and then it's time to join the engine and monocoque chassis...

 

best,

M.

 

[frankgee]

On 3/11/2023 at 5:53 AM, Griph said:

Regarding your comments on steering, the problem is that when the wheels rotate, the rods rotate also. Once the rods move outside of vertical on either side, they actively lock up the steering. Either you can have the wheels rotate in a straight line, or the wheels steering. It doesn’t seem like you can have both. You can re-rotate the wheels to align the rods. But as soon as the wheels rotate you have the problem back again.  This is a design issue that clearly wasn’t resolved.
 

Also the assembly is highly detailed but quite delicate. Without functional torsion bars, the suspension doesn’t work. It’s best not to push down on the 72 expecting it to move, it doesn’t and there is a risk of crunchy noises!!  It’s a static model after all! 
 

The screws holding the wishbones onto the subframe were a little imprecise in terms of length and should have been slightly longer to get a firm fix, I had to replace one screw with a bigger one!

 

Re; the highlighted text above...

 

I find the non-functional suspension rather odd. Pocher has always provided working suspensions, and clearly this kit does a good job of replicating the suspension, so the fact that it is non-functional left me scratching my head.  On the rear suspension, if you disconnect DC-43 from DC-35 then the suspension will travel up and down, and appears to maintain proper geometry. So my question then (as I don't have any reference material for this car) is, on the actual car is DC-43 a rigid rod as in the kit, or does it move like a really thin shock? As it is, with DC-43 connected the suspension can't work, so either DC-43 is not correct or there is another error in the kit's design of the suspension. Does anyone have a reference manual for the car that can explain where the problem is?  I realize up above you suggest it's a non-functional torsion bar, but DC-43 is not a torsion bar so I'm questioning whether DC-43 is the problem. I'm considering making a scratch built DC-43 that slides up/down, but don't want to do that if it's wrong.  Thanks..

Edited March 18, 2023 by frankgee