87 Sq Hurricanes, France 1939-40,

[Troy Smith]

Right, something for the weekend sir?

 

since the thread on 87 LK-H/L2047 is not going to be a good place to discuss this lot,  various images of 87 Sq Hurricanes found online, all here under 'fair use'

  

I have tried to assemble a set of images of 87 Sq Hurricanes in France into hopefully a chronological order,  taking into account as much background info as possible, dated images, like trees and any other bits I can spot.

This has taken hours of searching and comparing,  and is very much a work in progress.    A request,  read  carefully before posting, and don't over quote.  

 

This looks the earliest of the lot

 

 

IWM HU 112429

Very shiny and new, 25 inch B type, shiny nose ring on LK-M possibly from re-engning with a Merlin III and new nose ring with the 4 and 8 o'clock bulges. 

 

IWM HU 112435

Note, no seat armour.

 

IWM HU 112447

Same plane, note trees background, still in leaf, 

From the markings and this, likely Sep or Oct 1939

 

These are handy as dated 

 

from https://www.key.aero/article/what-happened-thistle-squadron

"At around 13.00hrs local on 10 November 1939, an RAF Hurricane I landed on the road between Kortrijk and Mouscron, at the village of Aalbeke. Flown by Plt Off Horatio L. R. Dunn, the aircraft, serial L1619/LK-P, hailed from No 87 Squadron at Lille-Seclin. Dunn made a perfect touchdown, but had to swerve at the end of his landing run in order to avoid a cyclist. The Hurricane finished up in a small ditch, damaging only its two-bladed propeller.

Dunn wrote the following report: “I had been patrolling at high level along the French coast and occasionally inland whenever instructed. My mission was completed and I was rejoining my base when I saw a German aircraft under French AA fire. I am not able to specify the type of aircraft, but it must have been a He 111 or a Do 17. Although I knew (I was) short on fuel, I decided to attack and started to pursue him. My adversary took the direction of Belgium and I followed. All this was happening at about 15,000 feet above clouds. I was thus unable to pinpoint my position. Just when I was going to engage, my fuel suddenly ran out. I dove under the clouds, taking the general direction of Lille. When I landed, I thought that I was still in French territory.”

so by this date, the B type have become A type, wing roundel visible, unusual proportions and smaller, so a repaint and have they added the fin spearhead by this stage? 

 

Note the larger codes on LK-O,  which landed on a beach 4 days later.   Fin off so can't comment on markings.

 Hurricane LK-O/L1813 being moved after its forced landing on the beach at De Panne, near French border.

"A few days later, on 14 November, two further Hurricanes landed on Belgium’s sandy beaches, one at De Panne and the other at Koksijde, not far from the French border. The former was L1628/LK-H, piloted by the commanding officer of No 87 Squadron, Sqn Ldr W. E. Coope. The other, L1813/LK-O, was in the hands of Fg Off R. L. Glyde.

Coope reported: “I took off at 13.30 with my two wing men for a patrol between Abbeville and Dunkirk. The whole mission was flown above clouds. In a hole, I thought I had seen Calais and I wanted to rejoin my base towards Lille. At 1,350ft I came under the clouds, thinking I was south-west of my base. I flew in a north-west direction and came along the Belgian coast still leading the three aircraft”. Coope’s version was confirmed by the Service de Guet, Belgium’s equivalent of the Observer Corps, which signalled a patrol of three Hurricanes at 14.56hrs near Oudenaarde, at 15.17 at Roeselare and at 15.22 at Nieuwpoort."

 

"Belgian military personnel of the Etablissement d’Aéronautique at Evere with Hurricane L1628/LK-H during the unit’s move to Bordeaux-Merignac in May 1940. The aircraft to the right is an Avro 504N trainer"

Of note the port UC door is not Night, but the radiator is. 

 

 

December 1939, King George VI visit.

IWM F 2344B

Three   87 sq planes in background,  of note 2 have spearhead, last doesn't, all 2 blade, perhaps all picked for uniformity.  Is that a Sq Ldr flass below cockpit of VY-X? 

 

 

IWM C 465

 

Part  of the series of press images for the King George VI visit in Dec 1939,  of note the 25 inch B converted to A roundels, and that LK-L is newer,  with what look like a DH Spitfire prop, and a 35 Inch roundel.   First images with the 3 blade prop of any kind.

Apparently the pilots got irked by the press request for scramble photos, note 3 pilots holding hands as they run...

another angle

Just spotted 3rd plane has a coloured spinner tip.

If the pilots got cheesed off that implies there are more from this sequence somewhere.

 

FWIW, I'd put the L2047 pics here in the time line, 

 

 

 

No date , but just visible are non-black, so flight coloured spinners. 

IWM HU 112446

https://www.iwm.org.uk/collections/item/object/205259815

LK-B, LK-Q, LK-P or R

If you zoom in the link,  you can see that none of the codes are the same instyle, 

B and Q (and the plane behind) possibly yellow spinners, being one flight,   P/R maybe red?  

Note LK-B is not the same LK-B as further down.  

Possibly same shoot as this?  

It's getting really late,  is there an emblem on break out pane; on LK-Q above, and plane on left below? 

 

Now, this is the wild card

IWM HU 112434

by wild card, it's the only image with the rudder stripes.

A reminder, rudder stripes were used by 1 and 73 squadrons, and this the only image of 87 that I know of with the stripes.   if you use the zoom here

https://www.iwm.org.uk/collections/item/object/205259684

You can just make out that LK-O has the rectangular 2nd hatch, the two faint horizontal lines in the O.

AFAIK this was introduced on the 1st Gloster batch, and is not seen on the Hawker L**** and N**** serials (with one exception)  pole aerial and a DH (Hurricane) prop are standard on the early Gloster P25** as well.

Also, on max zoom in the link there looks like there maybe a very small serial above the spearhead.

 

the above are IWM, this is a German ebay 

 

Note.

German railway carriage, looks undamaged.

Early Gloster, but not that early has Rotol prop.

Note light internal framework (eg Aluminium paint) 

another new one, only just spotted this.

Again, looks early Gloster,  same large codes, pole attenna but look to be a Rotol prop in a flight colour.   

Spring 1940.   I suspect the roundels have been repainted to the correct colours.

 

I was going to say late for serial overpaint, but the very very famous LK-A P2798, has no serial, and served in France.

These are BoB era pic of LK-A, the below ia after the August order to reinstate underwing roundels

Note the wing roundel on the photographer's plane, LK-G,P2829,  ,  pale and flaking off, compared to LK-A,  perhaps an example of Gloster's use of bright pre war red and blue?  

the photographer  'Watty' Watson is known, he took nearly all the famous 87  BoB sq pics BTW

 

Right. I've had enough for now,  I've been doing this for hours.  It's been an interesting exercise, and has turned up other useful images in during the searches.   I'm sure this need and edit and additions.   I shall note changes. 

I need to dig out a couple of books, and do some more cross referencing.

@Graham Boak  @JackG  @Mark Postlethwaite  @Dave Fleming

 

phew...