1:48 Grumman Martlet Mk.III, 805 Sqn FAA, Western Desert, 1942 *FINISHED*

[Dunny]

Hi All,

 

My next build will be Eduard's relatively new 1:48 F4F-3 (apologies for the poisson rouge @AliGauld - I had a change of mind at the last minute!). Here's the box art:

 

 

Here's the sprue shots:

 

 

 

 

Detail really does look superb. There's also a PE fret, which looks rather nice:

 

 

There is also a mask set for the glazing, and a most comprehensive set of decals allowing for no less than six yes six US Navy schemes, precisely none of which will be used in this build. As the title suggests I intend to build this as an FAA aircraft of 805 Sqn, who were based in the Western Desert in 1942. 

In looking at these subjects, it soon became apparent that I had opened a catering size  when it comes to the appropriate specification for FAA Martlets. There is much useful information contained within these hallowed walls, much of which can be found here:

Here also is a link to a rather informative web page on FAA Martlets by our very own @Bruce Archer:

 

http://www.clubhyper.com/reference/wildcatfaaba_1.htm

 

From what I can gather all of 805's aircraft were from an order originally intended for the Hellenic Air Force, which was diverted to the FAA on the fall of Greece. The aircraft would therefore have the following specifications:

 

- Fixed wings

- 4 x 0.50" wing guns

- Pratt & Whitney R-1830-90 Twin Wasp engine

- Single Stage, Two Speed Supercharger

- Long cowl with 1 cowl flap per side, with carb scoop at 12 o'clock position

- Cuffed Curtis prop with stepped hub

- F4F-3 type (straight) pitot

- Cockpit in Bronze Green

- Interior Grumman Grey

 

Keepin' up so far? 

 

I have found several photos of 805 aircraft (images for discussion only and will be removed on request)

 

 

 

 

 

As you can see the aircraft when delivered were in the specified Non-Specular Light Grey (USN), and most sources have the aircraft overpainted in at least mid-stone, with some schemes showing MS & DG. I have found a few schemes which catch the eye. These two are both options (from an AZ Models scheme):

 

 

I also rather like this high demarcation scheme (from an Aeromasters scheme):

 

 

I haven't yet chosen which I'll go for, but as I'll be cutting my own masks it doesn't jolly well matter at this stage! Anyway, on with the build!

 

Thanks for looking,

 

Roger

 

 

 

 

 

 

[mark.au]

This one should be very interesting, I’m looking forward to learning something(s) on this one.

[Dunny]

9 minutes ago, mark.au said:

This one should be very interesting, I’m looking forward to learning something(s) on this one.

Me too Mark - I hadn't realised Martlets were such a minefield...

[Grey Beema]

Good luck with this one Roger, welcome to the wacky world of the Martlet.  I’m interested to see how this kit goes together, I’ve heard good things about it.  

 

Now it the were to do a Martlet IV....

[Dunny]

4 minutes ago, Grey Beema said:

Good luck with this one Roger, welcome to the wacky world of the Martlet.  I’m interested to see how this kit goes together, I’ve heard good things about it.  

 

Now it the were to do a Martlet IV....

Thanks GB - at least I can be reasonably confident in the specs of all the airframes I'm interested in - every day's a schoolday! I'm sure that Eduard will bring out a folding wing version in due course,

 

Cheers,

 

Roger

[heloman1]

Early to the party, bar side seat. It's FAA, so I'm very interested. I'm intrigued by the roundels on K first image are their any ideas on the colours?

 

Colin

[Dunny]

1 minute ago, heloman1 said:

Early to the party, bar side seat. It's FAA, so I'm very interested. I'm intrigued by the roundels on K first image are their any ideas on the colours?

 

Colin

Welcome aboard Colin! I believe the first image would have been taken with orthochromatic film, which does funny things to colours - the roundels are conventional colours, they just do not appear so! Those with more knowledge could surely explain it much better,

 

Cheers,

 

Roger

[detail is everything]

3 hours ago, Dunny said:

I also rather like this high demarcation scheme (from an Aeromasters scheme):

I would point you to the following post.  The high demarcation line scheme is based on a photo of an overturned machine.  Another previously unpublished photo of the same incident confirms the darker shade is simply shadow.  The other AZ Models schemes shown above, are probably mis-interpretations of the Temperate Sea Scheme.

 

[AliGauld]

Now this I want to see.

I've been eyeing this one up regularly.

If it goes together as well as the Zero you are in for a treat.

Oh, and I'm quite partial to a herring or two so no worries.

 

Cheers,

Alistair

[Dunny]

10 minutes ago, detail is everything said:

I would point you to the following post.  The high demarcation line scheme is based on a photo of an overturned machine.  Another previously unpublished photo of the same incident confirms the darker shade is simply shadow.  The other AZ Models schemes shown above, are probably mis-interpretations of the Temperate Sea Scheme.

 

If it's come from TO'T it can't be wrong (he is still sorely missed). So we are looking at EDSG/DSG over Non-Specular Light Grey? The plot thickens...

9 minutes ago, AliGauld said:

Now this I want to see.

I've been eyeing this one up regularly.

If it goes together as well as the Zero you are in for a treat.

Oh, and I'm quite partial to a herring or two so no worries.

 

Cheers,

Alistair

Alistair,

 

The kit look's bl**dy superb - I'll be most pleased if it turns out half as nice as your Navy Nought. The herring shall soon be revealed too...

 

Cheers,

 

Roger

[bigbadbadge]

Ooooooo lovely, looking forward to this one Roger, certainly some interesting info and schemes.  Be great to see what you do with this one.

 

Chris

[Dunny]

43 minutes ago, bigbadbadge said:

Ooooooo lovely, looking forward to this one Roger, certainly some interesting info and schemes.  Be great to see what you do with this one.

 

Chris

Thanks Chris,

 

Looks like a variation on TSS is the order of the day. Have to do some fading at least!

 

Cheers,

 

Roger

[bigbadbadge]

1 minute ago, Dunny said:

Thanks Chris,

 

Looks like a variation on TSS is the order of the day. Have to do some fading at least!

 

Cheers,

 

Roger

You can't beat a bit of TSS, it will add some variety between the Mossie and the Dallachy Beau 

 

Sorry fella, couldn't resist 😉 

Chris

[Ngantek]

Glad to see someone build the new Eduard into a Martlet. I agree that the III is probably the best route. We're so spoiled with good Wildcats these days, but it's still a faff whenever the crazy world of FAA versions come into play, and that's before we even get into the old 'was it green/green, and is that tropical sea scheme?' discussion. For myself, I've been eyeing this one up and desperately trying to hold out for a FAA boxing of some kind, whose instructions I can blindly follow with my hands over my ears and the network cable unplugged.

 

Can't wait to see what luvvly stuff you make out of it.

 

Andy 

[Dunny]

9 minutes ago, Ngantek said:

Glad to see someone build the new Eduard into a Martlet. I agree that the III is probably the best route. We're so spoiled with good Wildcats these days, but it's still a faff whenever the crazy world of FAA versions come into play, and that's before we even get into the old 'was it green/green, and is that tropical sea scheme?' discussion. For myself, I've been eyeing this one up and desperately trying to hold out for a FAA boxing of some kind, whose instructions I can blindly follow with my hands over my ears and the network cable unplugged.

 

Can't wait to see what luvvly stuff you make out of it.

 

Andy 

Thanks Andy - I was blissfully unaware of the compexity around Martlets, but am now embracing the chaos for the greater good!

 

Cheers,

 

Roger

[k5054nz]

Fantastic, I'm keen to follow along with this. I had no idea that desert camo Martlets existed until G-KINL flew again a few weeks ago.

[Dunny]

Hi All,

 

Having done a little more research on colour schemes, I am sceptical about a desert scheme being applied. Referring to @detail is everything's post on the 'All the Wildcat questions' thread (link above - the relevant section is on p3), there are some excellent photos of 805 Martlets. The first one below looks to me remarkably like an EDSG/DSG combo on the upper surfaces, but far too dark for Sky undersurfaces. To my eye it looks much more like......Azure Blue. Although the second photo below does leave some latitude for interpretation it could just be a trick of the light. As these aircraft were tasked with convoy protection TSS would make sense for over water operations, but if those are Sky undersides I shall mange mon chapeau, as Uncle Gaston used to say.

 

Food for thought indeed,

 

Thanks for looking,

 

Roger

 

On 03/10/2022 at 05:32, detail is everything said:

I would refer you to the topics

and 

 Also Tony O'Toole's article on 805 Wildcats in the Apr 08 Model Aircraft Monthly (p.19).

 

As Maurice says in the first topic

 

When received by the Royal Navy’s 805 Squadron, these aircraft were finished in the contemporary US Navy scheme of overall non specular Light Gray (some British authors like to call this “Neutrality Gray” but not the Bureau of Aeronautics' documentation). Subsequently, they received one or more other camouflage scheme, but what these were has been the subject of considerable speculation, including:

•         Upper surfaces overall Middle Stone, retaining the Light Gray undersurfaces

•         Upper surfaces overall Middle Stone, with Azure Blue undersurfaces

•         Upper surfaces in a disruptive desert scheme of Middle Stone and Dark Earth, with Azure Blue undersurfaces

•         Temperate Sea Scheme (Extra Dark Sea Grey and Dark Slate Grey with Sky undersurfaces)

 

My view on the matter is as follows, though it is only my view.

 

Tony's MAM article considers the first option, which appears to originate from a photo of 3875 K overturned after an accident.  He shows, by means of a previously unpublished photo of the the same accident, that the aircraft was in fact in the original overall non specular Light Gray.  Also, I think it a bit odd to paint the upper surfaces this way, when it would be more logical to paint them in a disruptive desert scheme as per other allied aircraft at the time.

 

I also discount the second option for the same reason.

 

There are photos of Martlet IIIs in a disruptive camouflage scheme (see the above topics) and it would be logical to conclude, a disruptive desert scheme.

 

However, we have the account of Don Nairn in his autobiography book 'Gold Wings and Webbed Feet' (Invercargill, New Zealand: 1996), to refer to. Nairn served with 805 Squadron from December 1941 until January 1943 in both North and East Africa. 

 

Nairn states that, from mid-March 1942, 805 Squadron was tasked primarily with convoy protection. Consequently, during a major overhaul at the end of the month (the aircraft received, amongst other things, new engines and “improved” self-sealing fuel lines that had to be removed because they caused fuel flow problems) “the maintenance boys had also spruced up the sandblasted paintwork with a new over-water camouflage design – a mixture of sea green and blue patterns.” (p.78) What was this scheme? Was it Nairn’s interpretation, 50 years later, of Dark Slate Grey and Extra Dark Sea Grey, or was it the application of one of the Tropical Sea Schemes? Any additional information will be much appreciated. It is possible he misremembered but Nairn was describing his "personal" machine, of which it is very clear he was extremely proud, especially as it was "K" (for Kiwi - he was a New Zealander).

 

Nairn's description quite clearly excludes any type of desert scheme and we would be hard pressed to imagine that he could confuse "sea green and blue" with any brown hues, so I doubt that only a single colour was applied over a previous overall upper surface desert shade.  The contrast between the two upper camouflage colours is low  suggesting the usual FAA Temperate Sea Scheme, though the  under surface colour appears quite dark for Sky and could be Light Mediterranean Blue  or some other colour.

 

The ex-Greek F4F-3A aircraft were taken on charge by the Royal Navy at the very end of April 1941 and most seem to have been issued to 805 Squadron in June (after re-assembly). The change to AX serials from the original Bureau numbers appears to have taken place in August 1941. Nairn dates the application of the camouflage scheme he specified to the very end of March or very early April 1942 (it apparently depended upon when aircraft had to undergo major overhauls). 805 Squadron went to East Africa in August 1942 and exchanged its Martlet III aircraft for Martlet IV machines (Nairn specifically notes that these had Wright Cyclones and folding wings) in October 1942. Therefore, 805 Squadron operated Martlet III's for 14-15 months at the very most. 

 

It seems a very short period of time to be having multiple camouflage schemes.  A case for not receiving a disruptive desert scheme is that I don't believe they were operating up near the front line in the Western desert and thus prone to attack on the ground from Axis aircraft and their overall non specular Light Gray camouflage wasn't apparently putting them at a tactical disadvantage when flying in combat.  But when they switched to overwater operations, their operators naturally turned to the Temperate Sea Scheme, they were familiar with.

 

I'm not saying for sure they didn't receive a  disruptive desert scheme, just that it was unlikely, given the short time concerned and it wasn't mentioned by Don Nairn, who was there at the time.

 

There is this problem photo

 

 

Which suggests the rear three aircraft are in a  disruptive desert scheme and the front three are in the Temperate Sea Scheme, but I wonder if it is just down to an uneven exposure across the plate.

 

I guess you pick a photo and interpret it the way you see it.

 

 

 

 

[Dunny]

59 minutes ago, k5054nz said:

Fantastic, I'm keen to follow along with this. I had no idea that desert camo Martlets existed until G-KINL flew again a few weeks ago.

...And it seems that there is a question still (see above!)

[AliGauld]

Jings, and I thought VVS colours were a minefield.

Good luck with this one.

 

Cheers,

Alistair

[Dunny]

8 minutes ago, AliGauld said:

Jings, and I thought VVS colours were a minefield.

Good luck with this one.

 

Cheers,

Alistair

I'm starting to worry what I might uncover 🙀

[Dunny]

Hi All, 

 

I've spent a bit more time studying this photo:

 

Note the darkness of the yellow roundel surround. Also the fin flash colours appear to be reversed compared to the aircraft behind. Based on the fact this could be orthochromatic film, could the supposedly dark undersides indeed be Sky? They are not dissimilar in depth of tone to the yellow. The plot thickens further...

 

Cheers,

 

Roger

[John Masters]

On 12/7/2022 at 7:26 AM, Dunny said:

I also rather like this high demarcation scheme (from an Aeromasters scheme):

 

If you're referring to the aircraft in the middle of the profiles with the sand yellow top and the grey underbelly, I agree.  That's something you don't see everyday.

[Dunny]

8 minutes ago, John Masters said:

If you're referring to the aircraft in the middle of the profiles with the sand yellow top and the grey underbelly, I agree.  That's something you don't see everyday.

John,

 

It seems that this scheme was debunked by the great Tony O'Toole (much missed on this forum). He presented a photograph of the aircraft in question following a crash, arguing that the inverted aircraft was actually still in its original Non-Specular Light Grey (USN). Tony's research is nothing if not meticulous, so I suspect this high demarcation scheme is, in fact, a load of old bobbins. Makes sense when the squadron was engaged in convoy protection, and therefore largely over water that they were in TSS or a variant thereof. It seems that everywhere I turn with Martlets, there is the gentle pop of another can of worms opening,

 

Cheers,

 

Roger

[Graham Boak]

10 hours ago, Dunny said:

 

 

Note the darkness of the yellow roundel surround. Also the fin flash colours appear to be reversed compared to the aircraft behind. Based on the fact this could be orthochromatic film,

 Almost certainly ortho film, as the red in the roundel appears much darker than the blue.  This is the prime guide to ortho film: AM Yellow will also appear dark because of a small amount of red pigment in the colour mix, whereas a more lemon yellow will appear light.   The fin flash on the second aircraft is also taller and differently proportioned.

 

My understanding is that the Martlets remained in the Mid Stone finish until moved into the Sudan as trainers, and it was there that they were repainted in correct FAA colours.  However I don't have this pinned down securely.

[Dunny]

Hi All,

 

A bit of a big update this week. I did do some initial work on the Martlet last week, but that mainly consisted of priming and painting various colour, with very little to show for it. Since then I've been on a forced hiatus waiting for some airbrush parts to arrive (grrr!). Anyway, the last two days I've finally been able to crack on. Here's the cockpit starting to come together, resplendent in Bronze Green:

 

 

 

You can see that I've drybrushed with Neutral Grey to pop the detail, Aluminium for some wear and Mid Stone for a dusty effect, I haven't bothered with an oil wash as it won't really show against the Bronze Green. Here's the engine mount assembly:

 

 

Not a good pic I'm afraid. That was fiendishly fiddly to put together, but you do end up with quite a sturdy little assembly with beautiful detail. Here's the cockpit with the front end fitted:

 

 

And here's a final shot prior to buttoning up:

 

 

There is very little to been seen once buttoning up has occurred:

 

 

Doesn't look too bad though? After that everything pretty much fell together:

 

 

 

The cowling and lower panel just behind it are just blutacced in place as I can then add the undercarriage after painting. I've since also added the lower glazing elements, and painted the instrument panel coaming black. On another note, I've been mulling which scheme to go for, based on this photo:

 

 

I'm going to model the rearmost aircraft, which I believe to be AX736. Based on this photo I do not believe this scheme to be TSS, so I intend to model in a desert-type scheme. Now at this time I think it may have been too early for Mid-Stone to have been widely used, so at the moment I am leaning towards Light Earth/Dark Earth/Non-Specular Light Grey (USN). I recently used the LE/DE combo on a Blenheim Mk.I of roughly the same vintage based in Greece, so could be feasible. Controversial?

 

Thanks for looking,

 

Roger

Edited December 20, 2022 by Dunny
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