Colours and fit for SAS "Pink Panther" Land Rovers in Northern Europe/BAOR Fit

[Richard E]

At the risk of opening the proverbial can of worms.

 

Toying with some possible ideas for a relaxing Christmas/New Year build and one option which has come to mind is Tamiya's SAS Pink Panther Land Rover which has been sitting in the cupboard for some years.

 

However rather than default to the out-of-the-box pink scheme, I'm thinking about finishing the kit in the green/black scheme when they were intended to be used by the Reserve Regiment in Europe.  Other than reaching for a different colour paint and a set of Accurate Armour's Goodyear tyres were the Land Rovers subject to any other obvious modifications?  I've found some pictures of a restored vehicle thanks to a Google Search but it would be helpful to know if it's an accurate representation of an operational vehicle.

[viper-30]

Morning. The tyres would be the wrong size from AA .. pinkies rode on the larger 900 tyres . Clansman radio rack fitted to the front wing ..

 

[John Tapsell]

As Viper says, 'European' Pinkies had bigger 'boots' than normal Landrovers - the top two images were taken in Belize as far as I'm aware. The tyres may be your biggest challenge as no-one does a set specific to the Pinkie.

 

The Tamiya kit builds really nicely out of the box but it really depends on how far you take your project. For mine I wanted to do a very late (1980s) Pinkie and that meant adding all the Clansman radio units (and dumping the Larkspur radio that comes in the kit). If you fit the Clansman radio trays to the fenders, you need to relocate the stowed tripod to the centreline of the bonnet. Also replace the kit part that sits between the front seats. It should be two separate things - a radio battery for the larkspur at the back and ammo trays at the front. For a Clansman set-up, extra ammo trays replaced the rear battery unit. There are other additions that are fairly standard - the Mk123 'spy' radio for example - that anonymous-looking little wooden box that sits on the passenger-side fuel tank.

 

Smoke grenade launchers were often (but not always) fitted.

Bail-out bags placed conveniently for each crew member

Maybe a Carl Gustav with associated ammo tubes

Personal weapons - varied but not as exotic as some might have you think.

wing mirrors (when fitted) on later vehicles tended to be rectangular but I've seen in-service vehicles with one of each...

 

Colours would have been IRR Green (Tamiya XF-56 Field Grey is an excellent match) and black (I'd go for a 'nearly black' such as NATO Black rather than a straight flat black).

 

[Kingsman]

Did they really just sling a 351 on a metal tray on each wing?  No attempt to fit the CIK between the seats and run cables to a TUAAM on the wing?  Short range without the 16W amp, SURF and full 2.4m antenna to make it a 352.  And short legged without a charging unit for the battery.  The radio originally between the seats in the kit is an old Larkspur set which would have become redundant with Clansman, although they remained inter-operable.  I would have expected to see a 320 for longer-range HF comms and a bagged 5m mast, if they were around then.

 

10FG75 seems to have 3 sets in the rear.  One behind the driver with a tied-down long antenna - could be a 320.  One in the centre that looks like a 349 or maybe a 350 and one behind the front passenger: 351 or 352?  That suggests that the 2 behind the front seats are laid flat on top of the fuel tanks.  As they are manpacks that further suggests that CIK frames may have been attached to the tank tops to hold them.  Headset earpiece lodged on the bulkhead so the driver can hear it.

 

The role of the (then) 2 SAS TA regiments was primarily to operate behind enemy lines in NW Europe after a Russian incursion.  Much more like LRRP, perhaps more like the original LRDG role or the SAS role in SE France after D Day.  Not so much shooting stuff up or they wouldn't last long.  Personal weapons would most likely have been standard SLR and SMG, possibly M16.  Charlie G.  Maybe a 2"/51mm mortar.

[John Tapsell]

It's unclear how the radios were fitted on the fenders and the few images I have don't help much.

 

In the top image, vehicles (L to R) 1 and 3 have the shelves added but no radio attached (and possibly vehicle 4, but there's not enough visible to confirm that).

In the second image, it looks like the middle vehicle has the shelf extensions - both these images are said to be of B Sqn on exercise (Jordan or Oman perhaps?)

In the bottom image, the radio is visible on both the closest vehicles, but not clearly enough (for me) to understand how they are attached (maybe on manpack frames bolted down?). No idea where this image was taken but the suggestion was Africa (again, on exercise). The vehicles have bar grip tyres so that would suggest they weren't in a desert area, but the vehicles are still pink. The regulation 'taches rather date the image though....

 

[Kingsman]

Well clearly they did just do that.  My previous self as a TA signals instructor is turning in its grave..........

 

You definitely want your radios secured, and those are manpack sets.  Presumably for easy dismounting if necessary.  So it would be logical for the Clip In Kit (CIK) frame to be used if available.  But unit workshops could doubtless have come up with something else.  The height of the set suggests that it is on something reasonably deep.  But then again I don't see the backpack frame.

 

Here is a 351/352 configured as a 352 with the SURF on top of the set and the 16W amp (finned) between the set and battery.  Note the wide GS bergen frame it all fitted onto.  Next to it is the CIK frame which would be attached to the vehicle and into which the bergen frame clamped.  On FFR Rovers it went on the Dexion behind the front seats.  Clansman was coming into service in the late 70's: it had just arrived at Woolwich when I was there in 79 (don't you dare scratch it......).  So maybe too late for your timeframe.

 

Prior to that and perhaps in the image timeframe there was the Larkspur system.  This looks like the kit radio between the seats. Larkspur A43, which is a UHF set: odd.

There was a wider variety of manpack sets in Larkspur than Clansman.  You can't tell from these images: too grainy.  But I might bet on the A14 for HF as it was widely used by Marines and Paras.  The interim BCC HF156 (centre) was also used by these same units and for "special tasks", although the A16 (right) was much longer-ranged.

  

 

For VHF I might bet on one of the A41 or A42 manpack variants.  The control panels differed.  A41/42 battery box shown separately.  The set attaches to the top.  I don't know if they could be separated with one of the kit cables.

     

[SminkyPinkyBangBang]

New to Britmodeller, found this thread by accident. 

I'm custodian of a couple of Pink Panthers, one of which had the comprehensive Clansman fit in it's later years of service. I'd be thrilled to see a good variation on the Tamiya Pinkie with the Clansman wing trays and radios visible.

I can go into as much detail as you want, it's an ongoing reinstallation on 10FG51, all the witness marks and mounts were evident but finding the mounting hardware took time. We believe that some vehicles only had the VHF aspect installed although the mounting hardware would allow for more. I think this was to enable short notice configuration rather than load up with full HF, VHF and UHF.

 

Ask away, I can give you detailed photos that should easily be taken as factual and accurate although opinions and conjecture are mine alone and worth exactly what you're paying for them :-)

[SminkyPinkyBangBang]

Clansman 320 HF set on wing mount.

[SminkyPinkyBangBang]

Clansman 351 set on fuel tank board.

[SminkyPinkyBangBang]

10FG51 with Clansman wing top mounts.

[SminkyPinkyBangBang]

New to Britmodeller, found this thread by accident. 

I'm custodian of a couple of Pink Panthers, one of which had the comprehensive Clansman fit in it's later years of service. I'd be thrilled to see a good variation on the Tamiya Pinkie with the Clansman wing trays and radios visible.

I can go into as much detail as you want, it's an ongoing reinstallation on 10FG51, all the witness marks and mounts were evident but finding the mounting hardware took time. We believe that some vehicles only had the VHF aspect installed although the mounting hardware would allow for more. I think this was to enable short notice configuration rather than load up with full HF, VHF and UHF.

 

Ask away, I can give you detailed photos that should easily be taken as factual and accurate although opinions and conjecture are mine alone and worth exactly what you're paying for them 🙂

[SminkyPinkyBangBang]

Replying to John Tapsell about his kit additions, are these bought? I've never seen anything that acknowledged the Clansman fit.

Cheers, Wayne 

[SminkyPinkyBangBang]

.I'll waffle on about the Clansman fit:

The manpack Clansman sets are 24v, kits were available to fit them into 12v Land Rovers, these included frames to mount, interface boxes to integrate the harness and battery chargers that would charge a 24v Manpack battery from a 12v supply if required. Most of this wasn't going to work on the Pinkies as they had no traditional back body to mount in.

 

A length of angle iron is fitted on the bulkhead behind the front seats. All existing radios and mounts need to be removed first.

Two 12v battery chargers live behind the Commanders seat (the raised passenger seat). A 4Ah battery lives behind the drivers seat. There is a combination of Larkspur switch boxes and Clansman crew/harness boxes mounted on the bulkhead between the front seats. These allowed the crew to communicate and monitor radios at the same time. Any old soldier can pull up a sandbag and chip in here about Clansman 🙂

 

The 351 VHF set mounts on the offside fuel board along with a crewbox and the initiate box. If detail is your thing, the Initiate box has a big orange button 🙂

 

351 radio antenna mounts on the nearside wing. You would usually see a large metal box that houses the electrically powered tuning unit with the antenna base on top of this box. This would make sense here, it keeps the antenna tuner out of the elements. But no, not this time. The antenna tuner is on its own and the antenna base mounted in front of it. There must be a really good reason for this, buggered if I know.

 

If a UHF radio was included, a PRC344 lived on the nearside fuel board, I don't think it has the battery attached, I think the battery might have been attached remotely behind the driver.

 

HF set, the 320, mounts on the offside wing top tray. It is bolted to it's universal carrier and then clipped to the tray framework. It can be dismounted and attached to a Bergen frame and carried to site. There's an antenna base in front of it. Harness wiring back to the crewboxes is out of sight.

 

Couple of things while I'm rambling.

Tyres are 9.00x16 Bargrips, same as the 101 Forward Control Land Rover. I don't know who would do them but if you found a 1/35 scale 101 then they would do, as long as you remember that the 101 has 6 stud wheels and the Pinkies are 5 stud. A good opportunity for 3d printing.

 

The theodolite stand is moved from the offside wing and either goes laterally across the bonnet just in front of the netting, or has been seen running down the centre line of the bonnet. No reason why but it's easier to reach when going fore and aft rather than across. 10FG51 has it going across because that's where the old bolt holes are.

 

Shovels on the nearside wing mount again on the new wing top plate.

 

That'll do for now, happy to follow on if you like, or have specific questions. I couldn't speculate any further as to the Clansman fit, I'll no doubt be getting it wrong and incurring the wrath of those who know better.

 

I'd like to see a couple of these kits tailored to suit the Clansman, there's also plenty of scope to build a pre Marshall Pinkie. Take a military SII and add a few minor changes, you'll have a display that shows the heritage of these lively vehicles. Google is your friend if you want to see more of the radios mentioned. Likewise the unit modified Pinkies, one easy way to identify is the rifle holders on the front wings, they're not square, they're made from a curved sheet.

[John Tapsell]

7 hours ago, SminkyPinkyBangBang said:

Replying to John Tapsell about his kit additions, are these bought? I've never seen anything that acknowledged the Clansman fit.

Cheers, Wayne 

Hi Wayne,

 

No - I scratchbuilt the Clansman units, along with the gas cooker, mess kit and 'cardboard' boxes (actually really thin plastic card) for a bit of local colour. I like to set myself challenges from time to time and was pleased with the general outcome of the Clansman radios I built. I scaled down the actual measurements and then tried to get as close as I could to the look and feel of the real items.

 

Given the timeline for the addition of the wing 'trays' late in the life of the Pinkies if the few available photos are representative, I went with Clansman simply because I couldn't see the Larkspur being retained after the rest of the army started transitioning en masse.

 

John

[SminkyPinkyBangBang]

On 06/12/2022 at 18:47, Kingsman said:

Did they really just sling a 351 on a metal tray on each wing?  No attempt to fit the CIK between the seats and run cables to a TUAAM on the wing?  Short range without the 16W amp, SURF and full 2.4m antenna to make it a 352.  And short legged without a charging unit for the battery.  The radio originally between the seats in the kit is an old Larkspur set which would have become redundant with Clansman, although they remained inter-operable.  I would have expected to see a 320 for longer-range HF comms and a bagged 5m mast, if they were around then.

 

10FG75 seems to have 3 sets in the rear.  One behind the driver with a tied-down long antenna - could be a 320.  One in the centre that looks like a 349 or maybe a 350 and one behind the front passenger: 351 or 352?  That suggests that the 2 behind the front seats are laid flat on top of the fuel tanks.  As they are manpacks that further suggests that CIK frames may have been attached to the tank tops to hold them.  Headset earpiece lodged on the bulkhead so the driver can hear it.

 

The role of the (then) 2 SAS TA regiments was primarily to operate behind enemy lines in NW Europe after a Russian incursion.  Much more like LRRP, perhaps more like the original LRDG role or the SAS role in SE France after D Day.  Not so much stuff up or they wouldn't last long.  Personal weapons would most likely have been standard SLR and SMG, possibly M16.  Charlie G.  Maybe a 2"/51mm mortar.

 

2 hours ago, John Tapsell said:

Hi Wayne,

 

No - I scratchbuilt the Clansman units, along with the gas cooker, mess kit and 'cardboard' boxes (actually really thin plastic card) for a bit of local colour. I like to set myself challenges from time to time and was pleased with the general outcome of the Clansman radios I built. I scaled down the actual measurements and then tried to get as close as I could to the look and feel of the real items.

 

Given the timeline for the addition of the wing 'trays' late in the life of the Pinkies if the few available photos are representative, I went with Clansman simply because I couldn't see the Larkspur being retained after the rest of the army started transitioning en masse.

 

John

They look good John. The actual stove used one the Pinkie is the British Army No2 field stove. Google for pictures of it stowed and in use etc. It lives in the rear offside corner of the back body and has a canvas cover that starts bolted to the bodywork. It was intended to be used in situ in case they had to move sharpish. Leaving the cooker behind was bad form.

The 84mm rounds were stored in pairs in the metal flat bar baskets inboard of the back body wheel boxes. They laid horizontal and not stood on end as often seen. There's a rubber strap to hold them in.

I've uploaded a photo of the spare wheel in place with the tyre bead breaker that lives on the offside rifle holster. The nose of the bead breaker locates in a reinforced hole in the front bumper. The wheel is mounted on the spare wheel carrier to keep sand out when replacing the inner tube. A good little diorama.

The wise old hacks just carried extra spare wheels and returned them to the LAD later.

https://pin.it/4KHuvpj

 

 

https://pin.it/4KHuvpj

[SminkyPinkyBangBang]

Canvas cover for MK2 stove.