“Dassault on Precinct 13” Italeri Mirage 1/32

[bigbadbadge]

Coming on well and looking good Johnny,  some lovely food there too.

Chris

[Memphis]

11 hours ago, giemme said:

I thin we've established back in my F-4E thread that, up to AIM-9L version, you should see the hole of the nozzle in the back of these missiles - credits to @Memphis

OK, guys.

I have analyzed many photos of missiles. My conclusions may not be perfect.
If you are making a rocket for combat (yellow and brown stripe) in white, then you must drill a hole.

If you are building a battle missile in gray (yellow and brown stripe), then you must drill a hole and cover with a cap slightly below the edge.

If you are building a training rocket (blue bar) then you drill and set the cover deeper or don't drill.

 

https://nara.getarchive.net/ru/media/a-ground-crewman-pulls-the-wheel-chocks-away-from-an-f-16-fighting-falcon-aircraft-11165d

 

Edited February 13, 2023 by Memphis

[ScheF15]

22 hours ago, The Spadgent said:

Quite the hole in the fuselage that would be super visible if the elevators were slightly down which I’m planning on.

so how to blank off. Hmmm plasticard to the rescue.

Hi Johnny, my kit shows the same gap:

 

 

By the way, I started a WIP on my 1/32 Mirage like you suggested. Check...

 

Cheers,

Rob

Edited February 13, 2023 by ScheF15

[IPMS19]

-Platicard generates a thickness  to be taken in acount for the elevator. Some putty should be more appropriate

[AdrianMF]

Smashing update Johnny with several tasty snacks interspersed.

 

I will just note for the record that the unusual eyelid tailpipe is very similar to the Fairey Delta, tossing some more fuel into the "Mirage is just a Delta clone" conspiracy dumpster fire... 

 

Regards,

Adrian

 

 

[opus999]

Terrific update!  Lots going on there... great model progress... chickens... robins... food 😋  Robins in America look very different from that one.  It's a nice looking bird though... as is your Mirage... (see what I did there? )

[Selwyn]

On 2/13/2023 at 7:06 PM, Memphis said:

OK, guys.

I have analyzed many photos of missiles. My conclusions may not be perfect.
If you are making a rocket for combat (yellow and brown stripe) in white, then you must drill a hole.

If you are building a battle missile in gray (yellow and brown stripe), then you must drill a hole and cover with a cap slightly below the edge.

If you are building a training rocket (blue bar) then you drill and set the cover deeper or don't drill.

 

https://nara.getarchive.net/ru/media/a-ground-crewman-pulls-the-wheel-chocks-away-from-an-f-16-fighting-falcon-aircraft-11165d

 

Slightly wrong.

live AIM9L normally had a recessed plastic cap in the tail of the rocket motor.  Some Early AIM9L had the same rocket motor as the AIM9D or G with a flat white cap. AIM9L is always grey in colour.

The white missle is probably an AIM9D or G  and has a flat cap. 

Practice missiles white or grey have two light blue bands, one on the warhead,one on the rocket motor

Live missiles white or grey have the yellow band on the warhead and a brown band on the rocket motor.

 

Selwyn

[The Spadgent]

On 13/02/2023 at 06:41, Brandy said:

Finally! I was half expecting @giemme to pitch in halfway through with his tuppence worth!

 

By the way, how does the rear canopy fit? I had a similar kit many years ago and it located with pins between the fuselage halves to enable it to move. It had to fitted as the fuselage was closed up. I seem to recall I cut one of the lugs off and glued it later. Don't forget to mask it too!

 

Ian

Cor Ian I had a bit of a wobble there for a moment. Luckily the canopy fits after the fuselage halves go together on this one. 😅

On 13/02/2023 at 07:00, Biggles87 said:

Wow! A monster update, including food, hen and robin.

We’ve seen a robin around the house and stables for a couple of years now and as they are territorial I suspect it’s always the same one.

 

John

 

Thanks. I love robins, such a lovely song. 

On 13/02/2023 at 08:07, giemme said:

I thin we've established back in my F-4E thread that, up to AIM-9L version, you should see the hole of the nozzle in the back of these missiles - credits to @Memphis

 

Monster update, BTW - love it!     

 

Ciao

Thanks Giorgio my good man.

On 13/02/2023 at 08:26, Bigdave22014 said:

Outstanding modelling as always, and now pictures of food. Is Jonny the new Nigel Heath? 

Why Thankyou.  Huge boots to fill. 🥰

On 13/02/2023 at 11:23, CedB said:

Great update Johnny. Crikey, she's BIG eh?

 

Looking very nice.

Thanks Mr B.  Big she is. 

On 13/02/2023 at 12:14, hendie said:

oooooh nice update J.   Impressive both in size and in quality of work you're doing here.

 

ah.... she made you breakfast as a way of apology. What a thoughtful chicken.

 

 

 

 

 

Thanks Alan. She’s such a sweet hen. 🐓

On 13/02/2023 at 18:40, bigbadbadge said:

Coming on well and looking good Johnny,  some lovely food there too.

Chris

Thanks. 

On 13/02/2023 at 19:06, Memphis said:

OK, guys.

I have analyzed many photos of missiles. My conclusions may not be perfect.
If you are making a rocket for combat (yellow and brown stripe) in white, then you must drill a hole.

If you are building a battle missile in gray (yellow and brown stripe), then you must drill a hole and cover with a cap slightly below the edge.

If you are building a training rocket (blue bar) then you drill and set the cover deeper or don't drill.

 

https://nara.getarchive.net/ru/media/a-ground-crewman-pulls-the-wheel-chocks-away-from-an-f-16-fighting-falcon-aircraft-11165d

 

Fantastic info. Thankyou so much. 

On 13/02/2023 at 21:07, ScheF15 said:

Hi Johnny, my kit shows the same gap:

 

 

By the way, I started a WIP on my 1/32 Mirage like you suggested. Check...

 

Cheers,

Rob

Not just me then. Thanks for setting up a WIP. Dutifully following along. 😇

On 14/02/2023 at 09:58, IPMS19 said:

-Platicard generates a thickness  to be taken in acount for the elevator. Some putty should be more appropriate

I get what you’re saying but this plasticard is thinner than paper so it’s all good. 

On 14/02/2023 at 11:16, AdrianMF said:

Smashing update Johnny with several tasty snacks interspersed.

 

I will just note for the record that the unusual eyelid tailpipe is very similar to the Fairey Delta, tossing some more fuel into the "Mirage is just a Delta clone" conspiracy dumpster fire... 

 

Regards,

Adrian

 

 

I love the delta!!!! 😍

On 17/02/2023 at 18:18, opus999 said:

Terrific update!  Lots going on there... great model progress... chickens... robins... food 😋  Robins in America look very different from that one.  It's a nice looking bird though... as is your Mirage... (see what I did there? )

Thankyou.  Just googled “American Robin” a lovey looking bird. A lot like a Thrush. 

On 17/02/2023 at 20:42, Selwyn said:

Slightly wrong.

live AIM9L normally had a recessed plastic cap in the tail of the rocket motor.  Some Early AIM9L had the same rocket motor as the AIM9D or G with a flat white cap. AIM9L is always grey in colour.

The white missle is probably an AIM9D or G  and has a flat cap. 

Practice missiles white or grey have two light blue bands, one on the warhead,one on the rocket motor

Live missiles white or grey have the yellow band on the warhead and a brown band on the rocket motor.

 

Selwyn

Thanks Selwin. I’ll take all that into account.  (Probably still fluff it) 🤣

 

 

Thanks for all the lovely comments. Mostly Sanding this week but we are indeed on the brink of colour.

 

 

 

😇😉

 

 Johnny

[opus999]

1 hour ago, The Spadgent said:

A lot like a Thrush.

Yes, it's in the Thrush family.  I love 'em.

[The Spadgent]

8 hours ago, opus999 said:

Yes, it's in the Thrush family.  I love 'em.

Me too. I guess it’s not a great distance between twitcher and modeller. 😉. I remember having the Airfix Robins one Christmas as a kid. 😂 I would have preferred a spitfire but deep down I loved building that kit. ☺️

 

 Johnny

[The Spadgent]

Morning.

Just in case I don’t get a chance later I’ll add the weeks spoils. My father pretty much discharged himself from hospital the other day even though he’s really not capable of being out. How or why they let an eighty seven year old out before he’s ready is beyond me but we are where we are.  It’s going to be a fun few months *
 

Anyway.

where were we.  🎭🤿👺😷

Ahh yes masks.

I used lots of little bits to mask the office. I could have used the canopy but that would have been too easy right. 🥸

I then covered the whole lot in mr Mask neo.

And at long last paint. 😇😎🤩 Grey primer but hey beggars can’t be choosers.

A dead one for @CedB

and top side.

now even though pretty much 99% I was happy with that front canopy was giving me some issues. There is a step at the front and a trench either side that just isn’t there irl and I couldn’t see before a revealing primer coat.  
only one thing for it.

Welllll. That and some sanding sticks and a spot if filler. 😂

Here’s the starboard.

And port.

Looking at that shot I can see a little more to fix at the rear of the canopy but those two shots are cutting a very lloonngg story short. It’s taken for ever to get that area smooth. 
 

Next stop. Pre shade the hell out of a lawn dart. 🙌

 

More soon chums.

 

Take care.

 

Johnny.

 

 

 

*It won’t. 🥺

[Fritag]

Fine construction work Johnny and looking forward to the pre-shade and paint almost as much as you are 

 

One thing (and I hesitate):

 

On 2/12/2023 at 10:45 PM, The Spadgent said:

The elevators needed fitting or did they?

 

On 2/12/2023 at 10:45 PM, The Spadgent said:

Now do I paint the flaps separately or glue first

 

I'm no Mirage III expert; but it's a tailless delta and it'll have elevons rather than elevators (i.e. combined elevators and ailerons).  And I'm pretty sure it didn't have  flaps (it was known amongst other things for having a high landing speed).

 

Now this could just be tedious pedantry - except if it means that the position you have the elevons in (both drooped like lowered flaps) isn't representative.  I know just enough about the Mirage III to raise the question - but not enough to answer it - although I tend to the view that having both elevons down like that would be pitching the nose down.  Sorry Johnny!

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited February 19, 2023 by Fritag
Split infinitive…

[Brandy]

I wasn't going to mention that Steve! It's taken us long enough to get him to call them elevators instead of tail flaps, didn't want to confuse the poor chap!

 

However, re the position of said flight controls with the aircraft powered down, I have texted a fellow instructor who flew these birds with the French AF. Will let you know when he replies.

 

Ian

[The Spadgent]

10 hours ago, Fritag said:

Fine construction work Johnny and looking forward to the pre-shade and paint almost as much as you are 

 

One thing (and I hesitate):

 

 

 

I'm no Mirage III expert; but it's a tailless delta and it'll have elevons rather than elevators (i.e. combined elevators and ailerons).  And I'm pretty sure it didn't have  flaps (it was known amongst other things for having a high landing speed).

 

Now this could just be tedious pedantry - except if it means that the position you have the elevons in (both drooped like lowered flaps) isn't representative.  I know just enough about the Mirage III to raise the question - but not enough to answer it - although I tend to the view that having both elevons down like that would be pitching the nose down.  Sorry Johnny!

 

 

 

 

 

 

Megatons , elavons, ratervons. 😭😭😭😬😅 hell I’m rubbish at aeroplanes. Thanks Steve. I’ll look into it too. If I’m wrong it shouldn’t be too hard to fix. 

9 hours ago, Brandy said:

I wasn't going to mention that Steve! It's taken us long enough to get him to call them elevators instead of tail flaps, didn't want to confuse the poor chap!

 

However, re the position of said flight controls with the aircraft powered down, I have texted a fellow instructor who flew these birds with the French AF. Will let you know when he replies.

 

Ian

I like “flaps” it’s easy to spell. 🙄😂 Thanks for your help Ian. Any info would be much appreciated.

[The Spadgent]

I found a pic with the fla….. elevons. A bit down.  Looks like they flop or at least can flop a little. Maybe? 😬

 

[The Spadgent]

Spent a lovely day in Ludlow today with my better half.  Just the two of us and the dog. Bliss! ❤️❤️

even managed to find this at the antique fair that was on in town.

Vac form. 😬🫣

Also managed to take in a local castle too.

beautiful. 😍

Not content with such a great day I figured I’d sneak up to the grotto this evening to do a spot of painting. 😀

pre shade it is then.

Here is the initial first line pass.

Remember this is going to be really beaten up.

So I went at it with a free hand scribble in the areas I felt needed it.

And a close up.

Here’s the under side.

And a close up.

I like that.  😇

I want to do a light pass too but before that I’m going to do some subtle patches with the stencils I bought a few years ago.

now your talking. 🤩

That’s going to look great . 🤞

The belly has the same but not quite as much.

I think I’m going to do a few passes of crazyness in all. This will be the first. I’ll do  mottled paint, fades, leaky bits you name it. 
I shouldn’t have bothered getting the finish so smooth. 🤪

I hope the flaps can be left down as it ads a bit of interest to the big wing but if not a bit of TET will sort it out.

So here we are. Hopefully more soon.

 

see ya kids.

 

Happy modelling.

 

Johnny. 🤩

[hendie]

I think that's the best looking bloody mess I've seen in a while J.

 

I really must try and improve my somewhat Neanderthal airbrushing skills

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Brandy]

That photo is what I had been searching for. I found plenty of the port side but couldn't find one of the starboard to confirm both were the same. It looks as though hydraulic pressure bled off while parked and the elevons drooped. The inner panel slightly less than the outer two. I'd go for that!

 

I love that "mess" as Hendie calls it. It should really add depth to the finish. Shame I can never be bothered to do it!

 

Ian

[The Spadgent]

7 hours ago, hendie said:

I think that's the best looking bloody mess I've seen in a while J.

 

I really must try and improve my somewhat Neanderthal airbrushing skills

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Thanks Alan.  You leave your airbrushing skill alone. Just differing styles is all.  She does look a bit of a mess at the moment though. 😆

1 hour ago, Brandy said:

That photo is what I had been searching for. I found plenty of the port side but couldn't find one of the starboard to confirm both were the same. It looks as though hydraulic pressure bled off while parked and the elevons drooped. The inner panel slightly less than the outer two. I'd go for that!

 

I love that "mess" as Hendie calls it. It should really add depth to the finish. Shame I can never be bothered to do it!

 

Ian

Thanks Ian. I’ll twist the.    Ahem.  “Elevons”.  Into a better position.   
 

(phew)  lucky I didn’t mention the steering pole. 😉😆

 

Johnny (two short planks) 

[Fritag]

Slightly embarrassed to mention this chaps 

 

But there's some good pictures in the BM walkaround:

 

 

Including:

 

 

Although to be fair; the position of control surfaces in museum examples isn't really to be trusted.

[giemme]

Great job with the pre-shading, Johnny!    

 

Love the castle pic too!  Looks like you had a great time!

 

A bit of trivia to add some confusion on aircraft terms: on the F-4 Phantoms (among others), the horizontal tail planes are in one piece, in place of having a fixed part (stabilizer) and a movable one (elevator). So they are often referred to as "stabilators".....  

 

Ciao

[Tentacles]

6 minutes ago, giemme said:

"stabilators"

Isn't that also called a "flying tailplane"?

[Fritag]

Or indeed “all moving tailplane” a sub species of which of course is your ”taileron”  The Phantom, Hawk, Jag and Tornado (for example) all have all moving tailplanes but only the latter two have tailerons  (I hope I’ve remembered that right… ) 

Edited February 20, 2023 by Fritag

[81-er]

Nice work on mucking up the paint there, Johnny, but for the sake of your lungs, change that filter in your booth! 🤣

 

I hope your dad's doing ok now?

 

James

[hendie]

3 hours ago, Fritag said:

Or indeed “all moving tailplane” a sub species of which of course is your ”taileron”  The Phantom, Hawk, Jag and Tornado (for example) all have all moving tailplanes but only the latter two have tailerons  (I hope I’ve remembered that right… ) 

 

and you thought helicopters were complicated. At least they only have a big spinny thing and a wee spinny thing