US NAVY Phantoms

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Can anyone reccomend a 1/72 ideally or1/48 kit for a F4H -1 (became F4A).

The closet i have seen is a F4c. Not sure what the differences with these early versions are yet and whether a F4J could be used,  any advice greatfully received 

[bentwaters81tfw]

Short radome and lower canopy. Don't know about a Kit, Falcon did a conversion vac form canopy in 1/72. I have a couple spare if you need one.

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Thanks, much appreciated.  If i end up with 1/72 i will come back to you regards the canopy. Cheers

[Giorgio N]

As I see this is your first post, let me first say welcome to the forum !

 

There is no complete kit on the market for this variant, so you will have to convert a kit of a different version. For an F-4A ideally you should start from an F-4B, as the first Phantoms had a thinner wing due to the use of thinner wheels. With the F-4C and foloowing wider wheels were used and these required bulges over the wing close to the wing root. 1/72 kits of this version were made by Hasegawa and Fujimi, the former being quite easy to find. The Hasegawa B is also a very good kit in general, although would benefit from photoetched details in the cockpit and from full length intakes... Mind, if you find a kit of the N variant this is good too, as the N is just a rebuilt B retaining the original wing.

In 1/48 scale you have Hasegawa, Academy and Tamiya, going from older to more recent and also from less good to best. Tamiya is really the best kit around, but also the more expensive of course.

Once you have a "thin wing" kit, you can convert it, keeping in mind that not all F4H-1s were identical... I'd suggest having a look at this page to better understand the evolution of the first Phantoms:

 

http://tailspintopics.blogspot.com/2009/11/early-phantom-iis.html

 

The author also posts here so he may provide more information.

Once you have decided what features your preferred aircraft had, you need a conversion. Falcon did one in 1/72 scale in vacformed plastic. I believe it to be OOP but can still be found around. The same company also did a conversion set in 1/48 scale, again in vacformed plastic. DB Models, a name long gone, also did a 1/72 conversion but in resin.

DB also made a 1/48 conversion and so did Cutting Edge (probably impossible to find at human prices) and Brigade Models (again not sure how easily available this may be, I understand only very few were made),

Or of course you could do it yourself ! There's a build on this same forum of a 1/72 kit done without any set:

 

This WIP of a pre-production Brigade conversion may also be useful to see what kind of modifications are required to build one of these aircraft:

 

 

I would also have a look at this build from the hasegawa 1/72 kit with the DB conversion

 

 

So as you can see it's not an easy task, with or without a conversion set. If you're ready to take the challenge it would make for a very unusual subject. If you feel that the work would be excessive, then the closest thing would be an F-4B.

 

 

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Many thanks and alot to consider now..great information 

[tempestfan]

While the Fujimi and Hase kits in 72nd are much more refined, there were also mid 60s kits of the B by Airfix and Revell, with both being reasonably accurate for a B (but not the later versions they later had add-ons for). Both kits were in production literally for decades, in particular the Airfix, so should be rather easy and cheap to find - not so sure regarding the Fujimi in the "easy" aspect. It may make sense to use a cheaper older kit in light of the required chopping, in particular if you do it from scratch. As @Giorgio N said, the -1s were a rather diverse breed. IIRC, the radome diameter and length grew considerably, with the final ones looking quite similar to the B, apart from the "flush" canopy.

In particular if you are going the scratch route, potentially helpful could be a slim booklet I bought at the Aviation Book Shop in 1991 (those were the days :-)), but it covers only the early stages and is probably unobtainable these days. No idea if the planned further volumes were released? The Aeromodeller range had some drawings that did not look that bad (reprinted in one of the Aircraft Archive Post War Jets volumes). But if you want THE reference on the -1, get the Ginter book by the wonderful gentlemen Tommy Thomason @Tailspin Turtle. It wasn't cheap when I bought it and has now a significant "ouch" factor (at least the offer I just had a look at), but it is the only publication I am aware of that systematically and comprehensively traces development of the early Toom.

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Many thanks and alot to consider now..great information 

[Over The Ponder]

Tommy Thompson, who owns/manages the 'tailspintopics' blog linked to above, has also written an excellent book focused on the F4H-1 called "Birth Of A Legend" (ISBN 978-0-9993884-5-7).  It's available from him via his blog.  It has hundreds of pix and drawings of the F4H-1.  Fascinating history and a great read.

 

CC

[Tailspin Turtle]

44 minutes ago, Over The Ponder said:

Tommy Thompson, who owns/manages the 'tailspintopics' blog linked to above, has also written an excellent book focused on the F4H-1 called "Birth Of A Legend" (ISBN 978-0-9993884-5-7).  It's available from him via his blog.  It has hundreds of pix and drawings of the F4H-1.  Fascinating history and a great read.

 

CC

Thanks very much for the plug and compliment, but I don't offer to sell it directly on my blog. I do strongly recommend that you buy it from Steve Ginter, the publisher, so he gets a bit more profit from a direct sale rather than selling one to Amazon or another retailer at a steep discount. Google "Steve Ginter Naval Fighters Series". Also, it's Thomason.

[Julien]

In 1/48 Brigade models do a conversion for the Academy kit

 

https://www.scalemates.com/kits/brigade-models-bkc48003-mcdonnell-f4h-1-phantom-ii-prototype--1176279

 

https://www.scalemates.com/products/img/2/7/9/1176279-12741-78-720.jpg

[tempestfan]

18 hours ago, Over The Ponder said:

Tommy Thompson, who owns/manages the 'tailspintopics' blog linked to above, has also written an excellent book focused on the F4H-1 called "Birth Of A Legend" (ISBN 978-0-9993884-5-7).  It's available from him via his blog.  It has hundreds of pix and drawings of the F4H-1.  Fascinating history and a great read.

 

CC

That's precisely the one I was referring to - Ginter Naval Fighters #108. @Tailspin Turtle, I am always for letting the money go where it belongs instead of one of the big platforms, but unfortunately it's 50 bucks at his site. Add to this s&h, import VAT and the carrier's "mishandling fee" for doing the customs it will probably end up north of 80 € - which is double that of what I paid for mine. If he does transatlantic shipping in the first place...

[Hook]

On 11/30/2022 at 2:59 PM, Giorgio N said:

Mind, if you find a kit of the N variant this is good too, as the N is just a rebuilt B retaining the original wing.

You'd have to backdate the slotted stab of the N to the original unslotted config, though - as well as removing the "arrowhead" stiffeners molded on both the Hasegawa and Fujimi 1/72nd stabs. These were not generally present on Naval Phantoms. 

 

Cheers,

 

Andre

[Giorgio N]

12 minutes ago, Hook said:

You'd have to backdate the slotted stab of the N to the original unslotted config, though - as well as removing the "arrowhead" stiffeners molded on both the Hasegawa and Fujimi 1/72nd stabs. These were not generally present on Naval Phantoms. 

 

Cheers,

 

Andre

 

Good point Andre ! If I remember right the Hasegawa B only includes slotted stabilators while the Fujimi B had both, or at least some issues had both. Of course unslotted stabilators can be found in other kits the Esci 1/72 kits for example all included both types and so do their Italeri reboxes

[Tailspin Turtle]

2 hours ago, tempestfan said:

That's precisely the one I was referring to - Ginter Naval Fighters #108. @Tailspin Turtle, I am always for letting the money go where it belongs instead of one of the big platforms, but unfortunately it's 50 bucks at his site. Add to this s&h, import VAT and the carrier's "mishandling fee" for doing the customs it will probably end up north of 80 € - which is double that of what I paid for mine. If he does transatlantic shipping in the first place...

Shipping from the US is outrageously expensive. When I want to provide a copy of one of my books to a subject-matter contributors who live overseas, I order it from Amazon to be delivered to them and them send a stick-on label with my thanks and signature in a separate envelope.

[Tailspin Turtle]

2 minutes ago, Giorgio N said:

 

Good point Andre ! If I remember right the Hasegawa B only includes slotted stabilators while the Fujimi B had both, or at least some issues had both. Of course unslotted stabilators can be found in other kits the Esci 1/72 kits for example all included both types and so do their Italeri reboxes

If the fixed stabilator slat has been represented correctly (it was basically just an addition to the leading edge of the existing stabilator), then it can be simply removed from the kit part. More on the stabilator here, including dimensions: http://tailhooktopics.blogspot.com/2012/11/f-4-stabilator.html

[TheRealMrEd]

On 11/30/2022 at 8:59 AM, Giorgio N said:

As I see this is your first post, let me first say welcome to the forum !

 

There is no complete kit on the market for this variant, so you will have to convert a kit of a different version. For an F-4A ideally you should start from an F-4B, as the first Phantoms had a thinner wing due to the use of thinner wheels. With the F-4C and foloowing wider wheels were used and these required bulges over the wing close to the wing root. 1/72 kits of this version were made by Hasegawa and Fujimi, the former being quite easy to find. The Hasegawa B is also a very good kit in general, although would benefit from photoetched details in the cockpit and from full length intakes... Mind, if you find a kit of the N variant this is good too, as the N is just a rebuilt B retaining the original wing.

In 1/48 scale you have Hasegawa, Academy and Tamiya, going from older to more recent and also from less good to best. Tamiya is really the best kit around, but also the more expensive of course.

Once you have a "thin wing" kit, you can convert it, keeping in mind that not all F4H-1s were identical... I'd suggest having a look at this page to better understand the evolution of the first Phantoms:

 

http://tailspintopics.blogspot.com/2009/11/early-phantom-iis.html

 

The author also posts here so he may provide more information.

Once you have decided what features your preferred aircraft had, you need a conversion. Falcon did one in 1/72 scale in vacformed plastic. I believe it to be OOP but can still be found around. The same company also did a conversion set in 1/48 scale, again in vacformed plastic. DB Models, a name long gone, also did a 1/72 conversion but in resin.

DB also made a 1/48 conversion and so did Cutting Edge (probably impossible to find at human prices) and Brigade Models (again not sure how easily available this may be, I understand only very few were made),

Or of course you could do it yourself ! There's a build on this same forum of a 1/72 kit done without any set:

 

This WIP of a pre-production Brigade conversion may also be useful to see what kind of modifications are required to build one of these aircraft:

 

 

I would also have a look at this build from the hasegawa 1/72 kit with the DB conversion

 

 

So as you can see it's not an easy task, with or without a conversion set. If you're ready to take the challenge it would make for a very unusual subject. If you feel that the work would be excessive, then the closest thing would be an F-4B.

 

 

With reference to my F4H-1 Phantom Kit-bash linked above, I should point out that the DB conversion set was never used.  It was only used to see how they did it, and to reference the needed markings.  All of the F4H-1 model as built used only modified parts of the Hasegawa F-4B kit, and custom decals.  I used the Hasegawa kit as it included all the various vertical stab ends, fuselage rear end, short burner cans, blanked out catapult launch hooks, etc. needed for the earliest versions.

 

I repeat, this conversion was entirely built from parts in the Hasegawa kit -- no resin, PE or other aftermarket parts.  All I have to say that if I could build it, then any reasonably experienced modeler could build it the same way, and save a small fortune.  I do not know if any of the 1/48 scale kits contain all the needed detail parts, but they could be modified/scratched as needed.

 

All you gotta do is want one bad enough...

 

Ed