Panzer IV Ausf D. late war?

[flyinghorse]

I know the Germans used a lot of older tanks to beef up their numbers as World War Two turned against them in 1944-1945, but I have seen Panzer I's, II's, III's and even captured Polish 7TP's used in those years and I am surprised that they would even think of sending them into battle against M4's and T-34's! I am looking at Panzer IV Ausf Ds specifically but have seen no illustrations or photo evidence of these particular models. Were they used like Ausf B's and C's in places like Normandy for instance? 

[Stef N.]

There was definitely a Befehls D in Italy 44, around the Anzio region, number I02, 4th Pz.Rgt.

 

[flyinghorse]

46 minutes ago, Stef N. said:

There was definitely a Befehls D in Italy 44, around the Anzio region, number I02, 4th Pz.Rgt.

 

This is a nice picture of a Panther D, but it isnt a Panzer Ausf D  Still I may use this for reference for a Panther kit that I have stashed.

[Stef N.]

My apologies. I mixed up your thread titles and didn't pay enough attention. I think some of the fumes from airbrush painting got through my mask. 😳😀

[flyinghorse]

29 minutes ago, Stef N. said:

My apologies. I mixed up your thread titles and didn't pay enough attention. I think some of the fumes from airbrush painting got through my mask. 😳😀

Its alright. Im going to build a Panther eventually anyway. Currently seeking paint schemes for my Tamiya Panzer Ausf D that are not related to the decals that come with the box.

[Kingsman]

Bovington has an Ausf D that was re-fitted with the KwK40 gun, a second skin of zusatpanzer appliqué armour and schurzen - effectively making it an Ausf H. That particular vehicle was captured at a fahrschule driver training centre but I can see no reason why it could not have been used operationally. Google Bovington Panzer IV for images.

[Longbow]

There is a photo of a Panzer IV Ausf. D in Normandy. 

It was used as a command vehicle by one of the Panzer companies in the area, at the start of the campaign.

You'd have to search for the picture though, as I have no idea where I have seen it before. Possibly in one of the After the Battle publications. 

[Longbow]

Found it... No other info available at this time.

 

[modelling minion]

1 hour ago, Longbow said:

Found it... No other info available at this time.

 

Great picture, looks like it has at least two tone camouflage though goodness knows what the colours would be.

 

🇺🇦

[flyinghorse]

1 hour ago, modelling minion said:

Great picture, looks like it has at least two tone camouflage though goodness knows what the colours would be.

 

🇺🇦

Sweet pic! Old workhorse, but I havent seen this picture before. Looks like an Ausf B since it has no coaxial machine gun but I am impressed by the reference photo. Thanks.

[flyinghorse]

Id still like to know if Panzer Ausf D's served after 1943, since I would like to be historically accurate in my build. Is it possible to convert a D into a C? Thanks.

[Longbow]

2 hours ago, flyinghorse said:

Sweet pic! Old workhorse, but I havent seen this picture before. Looks like an Ausf B since it has no coaxial machine gun but I am impressed by the reference photo. Thanks.

You are correct.of course. The D had the Co-Ax and the internal gun mantlet. 

 

I'll try and do a little better next time

[flyinghorse]

48 minutes ago, Longbow said:

You are correct.of course. The D had the Co-Ax and the internal gun mantlet. 

 

I'll try and do a little better next time

Anything helps

[Kingsman]

The KwK37 was still a useful weapon for HE, noting the late-war use of similarly-armed Pz IIIN and other light vehicles.  Indeed KwK37 production was re-started as the K51 for Pz IIIN, 250/9 etc.  Some SPzAbt has platoons of Pz IIIN to make up the numbers and support the Tigers.

 

Once the T-34, M3 and M4 Mediums were encountered the KwK and StuK 37 were essentially outclassed with AP PzGr ammunition: 60mm max penetration at 100m.  But their role up to this point had been primarily as fire support to the Pz III as the main gun tank, whose 5cm gun also became outclassed by the same opponents.  This necessitated fitting the KwK 42 to PzIVs from the Ausf F2 onward and PzIV taking over the primary gun tank role, with Pz III being discontinued and PzIV production increased.  There was some retrofit of damaged older compatible PzIV models returned for repair, like that at Bovington.  I'm thinking that the Ausf D was probably the earliest version which could be adapted to take the KwK40.  Although the wisdom is that these were relegated to training with NSKK and not issued operationally.  The same thing seems to have happened with StuGs, with models as old as the Ausf C seen refitted with the StuK40.

 

So it would appear that there was no specific retrofit programme for older surviving PzIVs with the KwK37.  They served on.  But only 1,125 PzIV Ausf A - F1 with the short KwK37 were built, compared to 7,394 Ausf F2, H and J with the long KwK40.  So they were always much less common, and many would have been lost to attrition by late '44.  I can see the sense of relegating survivors to HQ and other 2nd-line roles, noting that UK and US tank units also deployed howitzer-armed support tanks in Battalion and Squadron HQs

Edited November 29, 2022 by Kingsman
reshuffling