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Bismarck, Miles M.52 and Battle of Hoth


Adm Lord De Univers

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Ahoy hoy,

 

The fake Admiral is back and this time it’s mainly nautical. So much like any other time I post a wip, I mean the profile pic is a bit of a giveaway. Story time then: after not modelling from my teenage years, about 5 years ago I did the ol’ Airfix Belfast as a present for my granddad (who took me to visit it many a moon ago when I was but a wee midshipman). My partner, seeing how much I enjoyed it, purchased the old Academy 1/350 Bismarck for £5 (! Charity shop...) a few years later, reinvigorating my love of modelling. But since that time and with a lil 'un running around like a deranged Gerry Anderson puppet, it’s sat on the shelf:

 

20221120_101805%201.jpg?psid=1

 

So why did it stop? Well, the detail is a bit lacking so it’ll take a bit of work (there is a rectangular blob of plastic purporting to be a quad AA gun mount...). The seams – probably self-inflicted – were a royal pain, they still require first aid. An attempt at adding deck detail a bit of a mess. Opening up scuttles and the like saw me lose several drill bits, I’m pretty sure one or two are still wedged in there, I can hear something in there, and aren’t even done yet. Unfortunately, I decided to do that after gluing the superstructure and decks so it’s a right royal pain...

 

I also put it together before working out base arrangements. In time it’ll have to be in a resin base, something bluish-green and highly transparent ought to do the trick, but I don’t plan to do that any time soon. I also purchased some photoetch (which was new to me at the time), other aftermarket bits and bobs, and a wood deck. Boats and masts could still do with replacing.

 

I got put off. And I’d now spent a small fortune getting ready to turn this £5 model into the only 1/350 specimen I plan to keep. So I decided to do some test builds, well those turned into some more tests, and combined with my wandering attention, led to a stockpile that now hides in plain sight. I’m pretty sure kit boxes form a significant part of the supporting structure of my flat. I’ve gotten into the bad habit of picking at different kits every now and again. Recently I’ve lost all semblance of finishing any I start, so I now have multiple shelves of doom. I think such an approach needs a kuta and to clear some much needed space, and with this being the originator of the malaise, the Bismarck shall be tackled first:

 

painting15s.jpg?psid=1

Oil painting made by Artist Marii Chernev from https://www.kbismarck.com/gallery1.html

Edited by Adm Lord De Univers
title, forgot diorama
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As is my tradition - an intro on the subject itself, not that one is really needed. The Kriegsmarine Bismarck, link to the Oracle here, a much vaunted ship chocked full of under appreciation yet hype; giving rise to dialectically but idiomatically held views, so firmly entrenched that arguments are a guarantee of any discussion, even whether she is boy or girl is a controversy it seems. So, I’ll keep it short, she is a beauty – not Hood or Kirov standard perhaps, but still a looker. Well proportioned, adequately gunned (arrangements/types of secondaries makes sense but are a bit outdated in concept), good if slightly obsolete armour and propulsion arrangements.

 

In my own view, a complete waste of a ship! Built for a mission that never materialised and used in a role better served by submarines, and thrown into battle it needed more support for and undertaken in a mind-boggling befuddling way that led to great loss of life. Her first and only mission is quite literally the stuff of legend; she managed to destroy the famous battleship (yeah, I said it, old-fast-battleship-that-ever-so-desperately-needed-a-refit if you want to split hairs) Hood with seeming ease, before a chase across the ocean began, a poor use of w/t or understanding of radar, and a reversal of good luck saw her stranded, harassed by destroyers during the night and at the mercy of the Rodney and KGV at first light. Battered into submission and whilst foundering, scuttled by her crew.

 

However, if someone says “battleship", there’s a good chance the average person will think of something Bismarck-esque. Oh yes, give me an Iowa or Yamato, even a Vanguard, any day of the week over their German counterpart, but there’s simply no denying her aura, even over her improved sister. So much so that when I’m bought model gifts it seems only Bismarcks exist, I now have three of the blighters. A newer 1/350 Revell one, awaiting building and to be gifted; an old part-built 1/570 Revell one that I have plans to mangle more than my teenage self managed to do and do a wreck dio with; and then this one.

 

One thing this beauty definitely has going for it is its size, it fits perfectly into an IKEA Billy bookshelf. In fact, even if I wanted a 1/350 Hood, Iowa or Yama – they simply would not fit into my London-living flat – and I doubt the neighbours would be keen on Yamato’s bulbous bow sticking into their lounge.

 

First things first, those dastardly portholes. God, what have I done to deserve this? Details on this kit are a bit flat, if I haven’t said so already, so first off is comparing against the excellent Anatomy book, then tediously marking them all out, using some masking tape to ensure they even vaguely line up with each other.

 

Let the punishment begin...

 

David

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So, David, I don't agree!


This is not a punishment, but a hobby.
This one may be rough, but we will support you in this building group.
And if you cannot finish it by March, at least you will have made some progress.
...And then there will be more KUTA! 😀

 

PS: And you are right to suggest a construction other than a B17. The GB Flying Fortress does not start now!  :P

 

Regards,

Eric-Snafu35

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31 minutes ago, Snafu35 said:

So, David, I don't agree!


This is not a punishment, but a hobby.
This one may be rough, but we will support you in this building group.
And if you cannot finish it by March, at least you will have made some progress.
...And then there will be more KUTA! 😀

 

PS: And you are right to suggest a construction other than a B17. The GB Flying Fortress does not start now!  :P

 

Regards,

Eric-Snafu35

Lol, my apologies a poor choice of words - a punishment for my drill bits perhaps, a pleasure for me, especially once this small step is accomplished. 

 

David

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So, the main tribulations I had originally are completed. I chose a thicker drill bit and went through every single circular hole. They aren't perfectly in line but since there will be pe added over the top it should be fine (or can be closed up if needs be):

 

20221120_231342.jpg?psid=1

20221120_231355.jpg?psid=1

20221120_231405(1).jpg?psid=1

 

Funny how a little bit more experience makes a world of difference to progress. Still went through 5 of 6 bits to do all these and ended up in prayer to the modelling gods for the last few. Only took me an episode of both celebrity jungle and once upon a Time in londongrad in the background.  There are still many more openings but these can either wait, be closed up, or hinted at with paint.

 

Next up, corrections of kit inaccuracies. Now the fun begins.

 

David

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       Gidday David, good luck with this. I've done the Revell 1/570 model you mentioned, OOB, and previously bought an Airfix 1/600 kit that ended up being cannibalized for other models.

I think I pretty much agree with your appraisal of the ship and her mission, and the resultant tragic loss of a lot of very young lives. And yes, I think Bismarck was a good looking ship, although not as graceful as Scharnhorst of course. 😁

       I'll be interested in how this turns out.       Regards, Jeff.

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16 hours ago, Snafu35 said:

So, David, I don't agree!


This is not a punishment, but a hobby.
This one may be rough, but we will support you in this building group.
And if you cannot finish it by March, at least you will have made some progress.
...And then there will be more KUTA! 😀

 

PS: And you are right to suggest a construction other than a B17. The GB Flying Fortress does not start now!  :P

 

Regards,

Eric-Snafu35

Beautifully put!

Though too often, I end up thinking, 'oh well, there's always another KUTA to roll this one into!'

I find all the GBs very supportive places but the KUTA by far the best,  and a great tonic for mojo restoration alongside such a diverse collection of entries - sometimes people don't build B17's in it

PS perhaps the B17 GB should be renamed the pre-KUTA GB?

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4 hours ago, ArnoldAmbrose said:

       Gidday David, good luck with this. I've done the Revell 1/570 model you mentioned, OOB, and previously bought an Airfix 1/600 kit that ended up being cannibalized for other models.

I think I pretty much agree with your appraisal of the ship and her mission, and the resultant tragic loss of a lot of very young lives. And yes, I think Bismarck was a good looking ship, although not as graceful as Scharnhorst of course. 😁

       I'll be interested in how this turns out.       Regards, Jeff.

 

Thank you Jeff, glad to have you pop in, let's see if I can do her proud. I will be channelling your scratch-building prowess for the next stages.

 

116 survivors out of over 2,200 crew and, as you say, most of them young. Many of them just boys.

 

Scharnhorst is indeed a very graceful ship. Once I get into better habits, she is high up on my list to complete (I also have a U-47, if you can guess the plan there).

 

David

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@ArnoldAmbrose Hey, Jeff! I was thinking of you in the night (nothing freaky honestly) that this build would be right up your street quayside and here you are, right on station!

@Adm Lord De Univers 1/350, it's certainly going to take up a lot of shelf space, or if your prefer make room in the stash once it's complete! Onwards to success good sir!

 

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1 minute ago, Mjwomack said:

Beautifully put!

Though too often, I end up thinking, 'oh well, there's always another KUTA to roll this one into!'

I find all the GBs very supportive places but the KUTA by far the best,  and a great tonic for mojo restoration alongside such a diverse collection of entries - sometimes people don't build B17's in it

PS perhaps the B17 GB should be renamed the pre-KUTA GB?

It was indeed excellently put. In fact, it caused me to reappraise my mindset for that task and saw me crack on through it in next to no time. I'm actually unsure of why it had troubled me originally. So long as no one shakes her they won't fathom the graveyard of drill bits that lie inside.

 

Many might wonder why I bothered drilling when I could just paint the 'windows'. I think quite often, certainly I am guilty of this - especially when younger, that there is a conception of these heavily armoured ships. I wanted to show that the structure is riddled with openings and really quite lightly armoured against expected incoming shell calibres. Hopefully this will still be apparent later on.

 

It will indeed take up a lot of shelf space, but as per the photo above fits perfectly into an IKEA Billy bookcase (76cm inside), with just enough space for a 1/450 Vanguard in front. I did however tell a little - completely accidental you understand - untruth. I also have a 1/350 Academy Titanic in the stash. She will definitely not fit on the shelf, but I have plans to light that up once I become a bit better with electronics. I think my daughter would like that as a grown-up night-lamp (yes I am already converting a two-year-old to the nautical side) so it can go in her room. I will need to convince my partner of this and purchase some more drill bits first too...

 

David

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1 hour ago, Adm Lord De Univers said:

Scharnhorst is indeed a very graceful ship. Once I get into better habits, she is high up on my list to complete (I also have a U-47, if you can guess the plan there).

       Gidday David, I still have a book I purchased in early/mid 1970s I think, "The German Navy in World War Two" by Edward Von der Porten (Pan Books) and in it is a photo of Scharnhorst saluting U-47 after the latter's sinking of HMS Royal Oak. Is that a dio you're thinking of doing?

       Regards, Jeff.

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11 minutes ago, ArnoldAmbrose said:

       Gidday David, I still have a book I purchased in early/mid 1970s I think, "The German Navy in World War Two" by Edward Von der Porten (Pan Books) and in it is a photo of Scharnhorst saluting U-47 after the latter's sinking of HMS Royal Oak. Is that a dio you're thinking of doing?

       Regards, Jeff.

It is indeed, really shows off the size of the Scharnhorst well.

 

David

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So, what is the scale of the task ahead?

 

20221121_104842.jpg?psid=1

 

Oh yes, a coffee is much needed. There is even crew for her, but they didn't fit onto the table. We'll come back to what all those parts are in the future. So, back to the task at hand. First up: the rear superstructure gets it first harsh introduction to grit:

 

20221121_113926.jpg?psid=1

 

That'll take a while to clean up (and I've just seen I've missed a few major bits). The thickness of some of that plastic in places still bothers me. It is from a 1985 original moulding, but I'm in two minds whether to remove it and redo, slowly sand it thinner, or ignore. Kind of wish I'd not been so hasty to start as it would've been easier to fix unassembled. Hey ho. The mast seems to scale about right, without checking, but I doubt it can take any amount of rigging tension.

 

My proudest achievement remains the Schallanlage (active sonar) on the bow, a couple of 1/700 windows should help complete the effect - see the barely discernable cut-in on bow bottom-right (under the water right at the front, bottom), below:

 

20221121_114041.jpg?psid=1

 

Of course additional openings such as water inlets and Gruppenhorchgerat (microphone array) remain to be done. Hull plating and rivets are absent too, but probably should tackle those 'anchor holes' (I did say I was a fake admiral didn't I?) first. The original had the Tirpitz's setup (and was the original moulding for this kit).

 

David

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Hi David,

 

This should be an interesting build. I know that this ship has acquired a reputation for being "state of the art" at the time, but I have also seen informed criticism saying the design was in many repects just a reworked WWI SMS Baden and therefore not quite as "unsinkable" as was claimed.

 

Pete

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5 minutes ago, PeterB said:

Hi David,

 

This should be an interesting build. I know that this ship has acquired a reputation for being "state of the art" at the time, but I have also seen informed criticism saying the design was in many repects just a reworked WWI SMS Baden and therefore not quite as "unsinkable" as was claimed.

 

Pete

Glad to have you join in Pete.

 

I think it's a mixture really, some state of the art-ness interspersed with outdated concepts (e.g. multiple secondary calibres vs. the dual function of US and British secondaries, armour placement, stern construction, etc.). As often, the truth lies somewhere in-between, I was probably harsher in my introduction than intended or is true.

 

Whilst there may be similarities between the Bayern and Bismarck classes, understandable being the two German battleship classes in succession to each other (arguably the Scharnhorsts are inbetween), there were significant differences as well - as you would expect given the 1913-1936 laying down dates.

 

I don't have plans of the Baden so cannot definitively give a learned (sic: armchair naval reader) opinion of hull shapes etc., but naturally there was evolution. It is an intriguing question, especially when comparing against other nations' builds and evolution, but one beyond my faculty to answer. In either case, German ships of both world wars have a well-deserved reputation for their ability to soak up damage.

 

As an aside, I would make a case that the fearsomeness provoked by this class was under-appreciated by German command. A Scharnhorst, even two, would be (and were) deterred from a convoy by the presence of an R-class; not nice but manageable. A Bismarck would likely not, and needed to be sunk by comparison. In effect, it was too powerful for it's own good and sealed its own fate. In either case, one-on-one, it could (should? Might?) be a match for most Allied capital ships, prior to later radar-gunnery development.

 

My apologies, I'll get back to building the thing...

 

David

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51 minutes ago, Adm Lord De Univers said:

A Scharnhorst, even two, would be (and were) deterred from a convoy by the presence of an R-class; not nice but manageable. A Bismarck would likely not, and needed to be sunk by comparison. In effect, it was too powerful for it's own good and sealed its own fate. In either case, one-on-one, it could (should? Might?) be a match for most Allied capital ships, prior to later radar-gunnery development.

Gidday, I've often thought about this scenario, Bismarck versus a convoy-escorting R-class. On paper the Bismarck should triumph. While the British 15-inch shell was the heavier the German guns had a longer range. But I think the broader situation needs to be looked at. The British capital ships vastly outnumbered the Germans so they were more in a position to risk and accept being damaged than their German adversaries, who I believe could not afford the risk of damage out in the Atlantic. Therefore IMHO the presence of an R-class battleship would be sufficient to deter Bismarck from attacking a convoy. Another factor is I think in the early stages of the war at least, the German ships had to conserve ammunition, in fact I believe they were instructed to do so. I think Scharnhorst was censured for firing on HMS Glorious without orders to engage. This would also affect a Bismarck vs R-class action in that Bismarck would have to close the range to be more assured of hitting. This would bring her into the range of the British guns and hence the risk of damage.       I must stress here that these are my own thoughts, I'm certainly not an expert on the subject.

       Sorry to waffle on a bit, David. These ships are still worthy subjects for models.       Please carry on. 🙂       Regards, Jeff.

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47 minutes ago, ArnoldAmbrose said:

Sorry to waffle on a bit, David. These ships are still worthy subjects for models.       Please carry on. 🙂       Regards, Jeff.

Waffle away, I certainly did (I don't think you did anyway) and I am always keen for discussion.

 

I agree with your comments, but I don't believe the Admiralty thought this way at the time, so whilst the Bismarck may have looked for easier pickings the RN knew its older R-class were not a match (if I recall their barrel elevations were still limited?), necessitating a focus on catching one of these before it could get in amongst shipping. Unfortunately I do not have time to research reactionary deployments to German raiders (nor match it up wih overall/available fleet strengths for a given period). Certainly despatches seem to assign more of an impetus to Bismarck than the gorgeous sisters. Hence my poorly-styled 'provoked fear' comment - the Admiralty seemed to really fear the Bismarck, but calmed down once more KGVs came online (and had more maritime air patrols, Intel, et etc) as per reactions to Tirpitz (or did they summise/know she wouldnt be raiding into the Atlantic?).

 

Either way, my introductory comments aside, she was clearly a fearsome ship, one of the best battleships of WW2 - at that particular time anyway - and not merely a slight improvement over the Bayerns.

 

David

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Right, it's getting to time to pick up my daughter, so I will round up the build for today. A slight slip seemed to decide my question of replacing some thick plastic parts. Emboldened, I channelled my inner @ArnoldAmbrose, and took the plunge to hack away - although I didnt go as far to cut a hull in twane.

 

So very much a 10 steps back beginning, but a satisfying one as I cast my gaze across her. First up the rear superstructure and boat support arrangements part way through (you might be able to see the nick that caused me to go full Jeff):

 

20221121_134121.jpg?psid=1

 

Next up: the forward superstructure had been modelled incorrectly (the shaded part shouldn't be here):

 

20221121_142554.jpg?psid=1

 

Now filled in a bit and requiring a bit more work, but on its way (in the below before filler is added back in - theres a walkway on the left hand side of the rear tower):

 

20221121_144823.jpg?psid=1

 

And a final shot as she currently stands:

 

20221121_153809.jpg?psid=1

 

I think the crew need to give her a bit of a scrubbing down. Next steps remain tidying up the filing and making further changes from the kit. I still really dislike my attempt to put in metal flooring (obnoxiously bold gold pe) so I may remove and reconsider (the pe part costs too much).

 

 

David

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2 hours ago, ArnoldAmbrose said:

The British capital ships vastly outnumbered the Germans so they were more in a position to risk and accept being damaged than their German adversaries, who I believe could not afford the risk of damage out in the Atlantic. Therefore IMHO the presence of an R-class battleship would be sufficient to deter Bismarck from attacking a convoy.

It's like I'm hearing Drachinifel :P  

Truth be told, I think most of the ... attention (let's put it that way) paid to the Bismarck & Tirpitz in the first years of the war is mostly due to the problem of the French dropping out leaving the RN to face all three theatres - Atlantic, Med and Asia. Were it the case the MN would still be active, they'd bottle up the Regia Marina, leaving RN hands (and ships) free to cover the other two (and no French Atlantic ports for the KM as well).

 

Anyways. Steady she goes!

 

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15 minutes ago, alt-92 said:

It's like I'm hearing Drachinifel :P  

Truth be told, I think most of the ... attention (let's put it that way) paid to the Bismarck & Tirpitz in the first years of the war is mostly due to the problem of the French dropping out leaving the RN to face all three theatres - Atlantic, Med and Asia. Were it the case the MN would still be active, they'd bottle up the Regia Marina, leaving RN hands (and ships) free to cover the other two (and no French Atlantic ports for the KM as well).

 

Anyways. Steady she goes!

 

All very true and highly recommend loading up youtube to watch some Drachinifel!

 

David

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11 hours ago, Adm Lord De Univers said:

I don't believe the Admiralty thought this way at the time, so whilst the Bismarck may have looked for easier pickings the RN knew its older R-class were not a match (if I recall their barrel elevations were still limited?), necessitating a focus on catching one of these before it could get in amongst shipping.

Gidday, that's a very good point. 

 

10 hours ago, alt-92 said:

leaving the RN to face all three theatres - Atlantic, Med and Asia.

Good point also. While the RN had more ships they also had more commitments. 

My thoughts have the benefit of hindsight, and the fate of my country isn't threatened by these ships, unlike the British of 1940-1945. The RN and RAF (and others) certainly put a lot of effort into hunting these ships down and destroying them.        Regards, Jeff.

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15 hours ago, Adm Lord De Univers said:

My proudest achievement remains the Schallanlage (active sonar) on the bow,

Gidday again, I've never actually heard of this so I looked it up. Thank you, I've now learned something else from your model and thread.

 

 

10 hours ago, Mjwomack said:
11 hours ago, Adm Lord De Univers said:

caused me to go full Jeff):

 

I'm going the 'full Jeff' has the makings of a BM catchphrase

Oh gawsh, what have I started, what am I responsible for? 😲   Oh, the pressure! 😖     But seriously, you've probably gathered that I enjoy butchering converting styrene kits now, and I also like seeing what others come up with. We can all learn from each other.       So please, carry on. 🙂       Regards, Jeff.

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4 hours ago, ArnoldAmbrose said:

Oh gawsh, what have I started, what am I responsible for?

Hopefully making improvements. Failing that a request for £5 of compensation!

 

4 hours ago, ArnoldAmbrose said:

I enjoy butchering converting styrene kits now

I reckon the kits cower in the shop when they see you enter, "oh no Spitty, here comes the Butcher of Brisbane! Look at his wide eyes and hands covered with shavings."

 

But seriously, seeing you saw a kit in half and coming up with a little masterpiece, gives hope that I can make these minor improvements. Bismarck as she rested last night:

 

20221122_021738.jpg?psid=1

 

David

 

Ps. Apologies I couldnt think of a butcher synonym beginning with P.

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In his book "The world's worst warships" Antony Preston mentions the excess of different gun calibres and also the inherently weak structural design of the stern, but his main criticism is the positioning of the protective deck very low down as in WWI designs, whereas more modern allied designs placed it much higher. This reduced the depth of the "armoured citadel/box" which is perhaps why the upper decks and superstructure suffered so badly in the final engagement, so that although the hull itself stood up rather well the ship was reduced to a blazing wreck incapable of fighting!

 

I will leave you to your build as it looks very good.

 

Cheers

 

Pete

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