The true old times are dead (1/72 92 Squadron Lightning F.2)

[Lord Riot]

@Skip and @Fritag please do carry on anytime gents, your tales of fast jet frolics are fabulous! 

[Hook]

Dang, I blink and we're on page three. 

 

How can I resist a Lightning! 

 

 

[jackroadkill]

3 hours ago, Procopius said:

"Well, what about it, Edward," said Mrs P, "would you pay to watch me undress?" 

"I have, Melanie. A very heavy price indeed."

 

You're the midwest's very own Oscar Wilde, Edward.

[Procopius]

1 minute ago, jackroadkill said:

 

You're the midwest's very own Oscar Wilde, Edward.

I'm happy to report that, thanks to Grant's tender ministrations, the wallpaper has gone long before I have.

[Hook]

2 minutes ago, Procopius said:

I'm happy to report that, thanks to Grant's tender ministrations, the wallpaper has gone long before I have.

"We are all lying in the gutter, but some of us are fondling an 1/72nd Starfighter."

 

Cheers,

 

Andre

[Bedders]

4 hours ago, Procopius said:

A very heavy price indeed

This made me laugh out loud. Thank-you!

[Biggles87]

OK caught up now, two ex fast jet pilots contributing to you thread, aren’t you a lucky boy.

Those of us of a certain age grew up watching Lightning displays and I was extremely lucky as an Air Cadet in 1961 when our summer camp was held at RAF Coltishall where 74 Squadron had recently converted to Lightnings and were the designated RAF display team for that year. On a couple of afternoons we sat on the apron and watched the team practising for the Farnborough Air Show that  September with a seven ship formation.

Good start on the kit by the way.

 

John🇺🇦

 

PS: in the ‘60s, ‘70s and possibly 80s when display aircraft were allowed to fly over the crowd it was quite common for fast jets to arrive from behind, and I frequently checked my 6 when something noisy was due.

[Galligraphics]

As a small child I was taken to the local railway station to watch Churchill's funeral train steam through - my memories are very vague but I do recall sitting atop a bridge parapet (being firmly held by my dad) and all the crowds of people trying to get a glimpse of it. At around the same time, my grandparents gave me a soft plastic toy Lightning - it seemed huge to me but in hindsight it was probably roughly 1/48 - which probably contributed to my fondness for the type. I made my very first Airfix kit - a 1/144 Vickers VC10 - at the age of 6 or 7 with the aid of my grandfather, which obviously sowed the seeds of my love of modelling.

Watching a Lightning take off is an enduring memory from more than one airshow - wheels up and then rotating to vertical... ah happy days...

Looking forward to following this one, Edward.

 

Nige

[Brandy]

On 11/21/2022 at 7:47 PM, Procopius said:

like a bowl of milk for a hedgehog.

I thought milk kills hedgehogs, as they're lactose intolerant?

 

I had a good friend (actually the father of my first girl friend, whom I suitably corrupted) who was an ex Lightning engineer. Fantastic problem solver and any time I or another mate had problems with our cars (MGB and Spitfire) he would always manufacture something superior to the original part!

Unfortunately he succumbed a couple of years ago to Alzheimer's. A terrible way to see such a fantastic brain go.

If any of our ex RAF fast jet jockeys remember Dave Coveney or Phil Smith (my mate's dad, also ex RAF engineer, I believe he retired as a Sqn Ldr)) please let me know!

 

Ian

[Procopius]

Just now, Brandy said:

I thought milk kills hedgehogs, as they're lactose intolerant?

Yes, that's quite true, but the effect is less poetic if I write "like luring a hedgehog out with dry cat food", which they will eat with immense relish. Much to the dismay of my cat Jellicoe, when my first hedgehog, Phillipe escaped from his house and hid successfully in the apartment for several days, living off the food intended for an increasingly hungry and harassed cat.

 

3 minutes ago, Brandy said:

Unfortunately he succumbed a couple of years ago to Alzheimer's. A terrible way to see such a fantastic brain go.

 

Indeed, one of my greatest fears, outside of something happening to the children.

 

I must say, I'm quite jealous of all of you who had a parent or other family member introduce them to modelling; my parents bought me models from time to time, but my dad had lost all interest in childish things sometime around 1969, when he discovered golf. That and home repair are his only true joys in this, his one precious life.

[Procopius]

My order from Firestreak Books came today, including their The Lightning Manual, which very fortuitously has a photo of all Treble One's F.1As lined up for the switchover to the F.3. It confirms that XM190 had the same markings and aircraft letter in 1965 as in the 1964-dated photo I have, most gratifying. 

 

However, in email conversation with a very nice gentleman from the Lightning Preservation Group named Richard, he sent me a photo of one of the four-ship formations of Lightnings during the funeral which appears to show three of 111's black-tailed Lightnings lead by a T.4, and the tails look like they might possibly be the later F.3/F.2A.F.6-style tail. So I wait with bated breath for my PDF copy of the 111 Squadron ORB to arrive, or for further amplification from any Lightning cognoscenti who answer my post in a Lightning facebook group. The good news is that if it was an F.3, I can probably handle that, but the pre-printed coloured etch for the cockpit will be wrong, as it's for either an F.1A or F.2. Truly the life of a scale modeller is one of high adventure, if you're an incurable neurotic.

 

Last night I didn't manage to get down to the grotto to do anything, as Mrs P was on the brink of a nervous breakdown after a long day with all three of our glorious children, and so I (heroically, if I do say so myself) volunteered to clean the kitchen, including the sausage she forgot was broiling in the oven and which had assumed the rough composition and flavour of fine coal from the Rhondda Valley. (I also thoughtfully released a large quantity of thick, choking smoke which had inexplicably been imprisoned in the oven with it.) Then I sat with Gargantua, our massive bundle of joy, and watched her wave her arms in a futile attempt to flip onto her belly so she could face certain death in the only position she'll reliably sleep for any length of time in. During this, I amused myself by reading Out of the Blue, which has a lot of amusingly-related anecdotes of events that probably weren't terribly funny while they were being experienced. Hopefully Mrs P is in finer fettle today and I can escape to the grotto later.

[Procopius]

I spent a large percentage of my evening reading Sink the Bismarck by C S Forester to Winston, who has inherited his mother's incredibly disconcerting habit of offering exactly zero feedback, even down the level of a shifting of the facial expression out of neutral, and so I have absolutely no idea if he enjoyed it or not, but perhaps it will ensure a cushier nursing home when the time comes. 

 

Eventually I escaped downstairs, where, in the manner of a man who knows he's in over his head, I puttered about with minor bits of the build rather than really getting cracking. Also, if the aircraft were F.3s, they'd have Dark Admiralty Grey cockpits, rather than the black one of an F.1A. Richard from the LPG promised to ask George Black -- Ian's father -- who lead the formation during the funeral, what aircraft precisely 111 Squadron were flying, and (a) how could I possibly refuse that offer, and (b) say what you will about the internet, and I do, but it's kind of cool that this opportunity is afforded to me via the same technology that allows utter buffoons to reach vast untapped reservoirs of other buffoons, just waiting to be discovered. But this buffoon might be getting his Lightning questions answered! 

 

Speaking of the family Black, the Firestreak Books Lightning Manual is really gorgeous. And mine came with a postal cover that was flown in an F.3 in 1972!

 

 

Anyway! I assembled the tiny flame holders for the reskit exhausts:

 

This was honestly a lot easier than it looks, but you have my permission to be impressed.

 

Are they visible in the pipes? Amazingly, yes.

 

 

All the photos of Lightning jet pipes I've seen have been on examples that were decades past flying shape, but I know several are in good nick, so I will continue my efforts to find some inkling of how these damned things should be painted. 

 

Then I decided to get started on the Barracuda seat. I opted to paint it with fancy brush and all these overpriced Citadel paints I have leftover from getting shellacked at Warhammer, followed up by some Agrax Earthshade wash, AKA "liquid skill".

 

 

 

That's close enough.

 

Oh, fine.

 

 

 

 

That, perhaps, is too close. I didn't paint the seat pan exterior yet, because I'm not sure if it would be black on an F.1A, or Dark Admiralty Grey as is portrayed in the colour photo that comes with the seats. Or, if it IS an F.3, perhaps it needs to be DAG, but black for the F.1A, I'm also a little hazy on how the parachute pack(?) on the top of the seat ought to be painted. I also didn't paint the bright rescue yellow hemorrhoid cushion or possibly flotation device under the reddish brown seat cushion yet. I have no compelling reason why beyond a man can only brush paint so much yellow in a sitting before his courage fails him. 

 

You can tell I'm a little nervous as to how all of this will pan out, because I'm wasting immense amounts of time on very minor parts of the build.  I am, however, starting to run out of them and will need to get going soonish. 

 

EDIT: Forgot to mention that as Christmas is coming, we're contemplating getting Win the Tamiya 1/350 Prince of Wales for his present, it being in about our price range for a Major Gift -- Major Gifts to be dispensed to the men at a rate of one (1) per Christmas or birthday per year -- and him seeming to have greatly enjoyed building the Dragon HMS Invincible in 1/700. I will be absolutely honest with you: what may stay my hand is that as a young man, I walked into a hobby shop in Evanston, Illinois, back when those still existed around here, and came face to box art with a massive array of 1/400 Heller kits, including their King George V (tied for my favourite battleship with HMS Resolution), and I was seized with a great and fearful longing, never to be fulfilled. The memory of it has haunted me to this day, and even though I now make my own money, and could buy many peanuts, I've never been able to escape the nagging feeling that I didn't earn it. So my fear is that the kit would, in my heart of hearts, be for me, and that I would be unable to resist stealing his joy and building it myself. Mrs P, amazingly, is all for it.

 

 

 

 

[Stew Dapple]

That's very nice work on the seat Edward, it stands up to scrutiny even in the macro shots  

 

Good luck with the big bits  

 

Cheers,

 

Stew

[Paul J]

On 20/11/2022 at 09:10, ColinChipmunkfan said:

 

As for the Lightning, my first encounter was at RAF Coltishall in the late 60's- after that forever smitten.

 

Following your build with great interest.

Colin

It was for me too! 1968, 226 OCU, ATC camp. Prior to this, the Lightning didn't do much for me, but encountering them at Colt changed all that for ever!

[Biggles87]

Ditto on the seat, very impressive.

 

John. 🇺🇦M

[perdu]

Multicongrats on the seat young fellermelad, it has repaid you for the care you took.

 

I wrote a missive extolling black only for Martin Baker products then unusually wisely for me I looked in my photoarchives.

 

Oops

 

 

 

Sadly I do not own the photo but it does nestle in my Lightning exclusive files

 

Take from that anything you like.

[Terry1954]

Great looking seat so far Edward and looks like Bill can help complete with that superb picture. From what has been said before, that one would be from a MK 3 onwards I guess?

 

T.

[TempestV]

A 1/350 Tamiya Prince of Wales you say? that must be really tiny because he is only about 5ft 11 in real life

[AliGauld]

That bang seat is a work of art.

Jaw-droppingly gorgeous.

 

 

Cheers,

Alistair

[Fritag]

8 minutes ago, AliGauld said:

That bang seat is a work of art.

 

Agreed; that’s a lovely paint job.  Of course it sets the bar high for the rest of the build now 

[Hook]

40 minutes ago, AliGauld said:

That bang seat is a work of art.

Jaw-droppingly gorgeous.

What he said!

[Procopius]

12 hours ago, Stew Dapple said:

That's very nice work on the seat Edward, it stands up to scrutiny even in the macro shots  

 

12 hours ago, Biggles87 said:

Ditto on the seat, very impressive.

 

9 hours ago, perdu said:

Multicongrats on the seat young fellermelad, it has repaid you for the care you took.

 

 

5 hours ago, Terry1954 said:

Great looking seat so far Edward and looks like Bill can help complete with that superb picture.

 

42 minutes ago, AliGauld said:

That bang seat is a work of art.

Jaw-droppingly gorgeous.

 

33 minutes ago, Fritag said:

 

Agreed; that’s a lovely paint job.  Of course it sets the bar high for the rest of the build now 

 

I should confess to you all now that I stole the seat, fully painted, from an itinerant peddler, who cursed me with a horrible curse: my wife would insist upon having a "family Thanksgiving"* on Thursday, despite having never attempted it before. I begged him to accept my apologies, the seat, and vast sums, but it was too late; he had said his piece, and he turned his back upon me and left. I could already smell the worst cherry pie in the world cooking.

 

 Anyway, the thrust of it is: the rest of the kit will look...different. And by different I mean bad. Lower your expectations accordingly.

 

(In truth, any credit is due to Barracuda's casting -- the seat is very nicely made, and cleverly formed so that with a decent brush, even wielded by someone whose hands shake as much as mine, you can quite easily paint the details and then let a wash do the heavy lifting. It's not called "liquid skill" for nothing, you know.)

 

In any case, a bit of a blow today. The folks at the Lightning facebook group have informed me that 111 Squadron used their new F.3s in the flypast, and that as far as they know, the serials are not known. The etch in the kit is really only suitable for an F.1A or F.2 (I mean, there's a slight difference, but I'd know, and an avoidable imperfection, as opposed to one due to my lack of aptitude for this, a thing I do for fun and relaxation, would kill me), which means my options narrow to 56 (F.1A) or 19 and 92 (F.2s). And, of course, I have not requested any pages from the ORBs for those squadrons. 

 

So as I see it, I have four options available to me:

 

a. Give in to despair, abandon project. Cons: Craven, weak, disgusting. Pros: Truest to my nature. (Unacceptable, given the subject.) 

b. Somehow obtain the etched fret from a Sword Lightning F.3 or in direst straits, the Trumpeter kit, despite the cockpit being constructed differently. Cons: Sword Lightning F.3s mighty thin on the ground. Serial numbers for the F.3s used uncertain. Pros: Aesthetically the most pleasing scheme worn by any of the flypast Lightnings. Can more or less pretend I meant to do it this way all along.

c. Build a 56 Squadron F.1A. Pros: Was already building an F.1A. Cons: 56 Squadron has had exactly one good scheme in its history, and it was a Phantom with a shark mouth. Would need to ascertain serial number/code.

d. Build a 19 or 92 Squadron F.2. Pros: Can use the F.2 cockpit bits for the kit I have. 92's scheme is almost as good as 111's. Cons: Good as it is, the blue fin is less sombre and would lessen the elegiac quality of the build. 19's scheme looks like they remembered they needed one the morning of. Would need to ascertain serials and aircraft letters.  

 

* Principally to avoid my sister Emily, who she went to high school with and despises. 

 

[Troy Smith]

28 minutes ago, Procopius said:

 Cons: 56 Squadron has had exactly one good scheme in its history, and it was a Phantom with a shark mouth. Would need to ascertain serial number/code.

I have not followed this, the only Lightning I built was the 72nd Airfix when I was 9, and that was because when i was asked if I would like a kit by mum, I said "a Lightning" meaning a P-38....   forgetting there was another... it was duly built, but a kit was a kit back then

(unless it was that bloody JE-J Airfix Spitfire which was everywhere and only ever had that option...)

 

  I can tell the difference between a fighter and two seater, any finer points I need to look up..

 

but I digress, my point regarding is  56 Sq schemes, I was under the impression they used one of the best Lightning schemes ever?

 

F3's but c'mon.....  or does this count as being to brashly American for you? 

 

from

https://www.key.aero/forum/historic-aviation/106466-56-sqn-checkerboard-tail-lightnings

 

I also found this which I though I'd stick in as it's a great pic....  and as it likely will drive you to desire models of all display like this.....

 

I still think the 56 Sq one is the winner....

 

I shall read the thread later to find out if I've just said something silly.....  but dinner calls

 

[Procopius]

3 minutes ago, Troy Smith said:

but I digress, my point regarding is  56 Sq schemes, I was under the impression they used one of the best Lightning schemes ever?

 

 

I realise this may be controversial, but I think the red-and-white checked fin with no fin flash looks stupid, like a giant flying peppermint. Whenever I see it, I think vaguely of Christmas and after-dinner mints. That said, I don't think they had the checks on the F.1A.

[Terry1954]

1 hour ago, Procopius said:

So as I see it, I have four options available to me:

 

a. Give in to despair, abandon project. Cons: Craven, weak, disgusting. Pros: Truest to my nature. (Unacceptable, given the subject.) 

b. Somehow obtain the etched fret from a Sword Lightning F.3 or in direst straits, the Trumpeter kit, despite the cockpit being constructed differently. Cons: Sword Lightning F.3s mighty thin on the ground. Serial numbers for the F.3s used uncertain. Pros: Aesthetically the most pleasing scheme worn by any of the flypast Lightnings. Can more or less pretend I meant to do it this way all along.

c. Build a 56 Squadron F.1A. Pros: Was already building an F.1A. Cons: 56 Squadron has had exactly one good scheme in its history, and it was a Phantom with a shark mouth. Would need to ascertain serial number/code.

d. Build a 19 or 92 Squadron F.2. Pros: Can use the F.2 cockpit bits for the kit I have. 92's scheme is almost as good as 111's. Cons: Good as it is, the blue fin is less sombre and would lessen the elegiac quality of the build. 19's scheme looks like they remembered they needed one the morning of. Would need to ascertain serials and aircraft letters.  

 

 

Interesting options here.

 

a. Definitely do not do that. How could you ever face us again?

b. A good option, and indeed I do have a Sword F3 in my very hands at this moment and can I tantalisingly say that the etch is awesome. Two problems. I want to build that one byself and secondly, I can't replicate the etch in the way I replicated (badly or otherwise) the Typhoon main gear doors a while back.

c. That's the one I want to build, despite your controversial abhorrence of that particular scheme. A flying peppermint! How could you say that Edward! Just shows when we abandoned the colonies, perhaps we knew what we were doing? 😉

d. Now you are talking, and I may have some Modeldecal for those very machines, but would need to delve deep. I think mine are for the topside green varieties, not sure. You would possibly seek an NMF, blue tail 92 sqn jobby?

 

So, two possible ways I could help here - b or d. 

 

For b, what do you need on the etch that is different from the etch fret for the 1a/2 ? Would a photocopy of the etch on the 3 help you construct the 3 parts from thin card?

For d. let me know which exactly and I'll see what I have and revert?

 

Let me know.

 

T.