1/48 Avro Lancaster Mk. X (Serial No. KB700) aka The Ruhr Express - August 1, 1943

[Sergeant]

On 12/17/2022 at 4:46 AM, alzictorini said:

Harold

 

Best you be restin those eye's or else "Her In Doors" will be giving you some!! 

 

 

Yes, I agree. 

Edited December 19, 2022 by Sergeant

[alzictorini]

The free version does, it's a pretty cool tool

[Sergeant]

3 hours ago, alzictorini said:

The free version does, it's a pretty cool tool

Got it... I deleted my personal work information on the previous post, not because its personal but rather it should have been in a PM to you. I get confused sometimes about what goes in the Work in Progress forum and what should be in PM's.

 

Harold

Edited December 17, 2022 by Sergeant

[Thom216]

18 hours ago, alzictorini said:

Evening BM's from a frosty Woodhall Spa in Lincolnshire................

 

 

 

 

 

 

After splitting the mold, would you recommend taping it to keep it shut, in case the resin expands?

 

Thom

[alzictorini]

Hi Thom

 

It depends on the size and how the mould reacts. The demo mould did not require any elastic bands or tape. Some big moulds require MDF supports to even out the squeeze as such.  Resin tends to shrink more than expand. I have some pretty big moulds and I have to back them with MDF as below.

 

Here's a set I made for a Spitfire spade grip:

 

 

 

The moulds can deteriorate after time and have to be made again. That's why my master plug or prototype I always keep for recasting another day. I also paint them a bright colour so as not to use them (see above). Every time you make a resin cast from your mould it deteriorates slightly which will require a clean up post setting and at some point you have to decide to scrap your mould. All the items below except the wooden stand are made from moulds I made (even the brass pipes and fire buttons are cold cast resin with metal powders):

 

 

Casting is cool, click on this pic below:

 

Enjoy

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited December 17, 2022 by alzictorini

[Sergeant]

Al @alzictorini your Spitfire parts and video demonstration are outstanding.

 

Harold

Edited December 19, 2022 by Sergeant

[Sergeant]

My eye surgery was successful and I’m on the mend with better vision than I have had for many years. So, I am ready to get started on this Lancaster build again, but this time I decided to do more forward planning about the way I want the aircraft to look when its finished.

 

This morning I read three reviews and each one has its principal area of focus but overall, I would say Gary Wickham has the best review for my stage in the assembly process. Last July I started this Lancaster build with the intention of completing the interior first. However, since then I have learned that only the pilot’s area and a small corner of the navigator’s table can be seen when the fuselage is closed, and the fuselage windows are covered. This begs the question then, what is the point of all the interior detail as shown in Adam O’Brien’s review if no one can see it?

 

I am conflicted on the question of painting and weathering interior detail that no one will ever see. The perfectionist in me says do it regardless, and the pragmatist in me says why spend the time and effort.

 

1. Tom Cleaver - Review with good Lancaster history section: https://imodeler.com/2021/07/h-k-models-avro-lancaster-b-mk-i/

 

2. Gary Wickham - Pre-build Review with comparisons to HKM 1:32 Lancaster, Tamiya 1:48 Lancaster and actual Lancaster aircraft: https://www.scalespot.com/reviews/kits/lanc48-hkm/review.htm

 

3. Adam O’Brien - Build Review, Part 1: https://www.themodellingnews.com/2021/04/build-review-pt-i-48th-scale-avro.html

 

Another question came to mind as I read the reviews, should the bomb bay doors be opened when I intend to show the model in a parked condition? This of course changes the shape of the aircraft.

 

And what about the landing flaps, should they be down as is commonly seen on the two airworthy Lancaster’s when they are parked?

 

This 1:48 model has four nicely detailed Merlin engines and since I plan to display it on the ground parked as it were should I have at least one cowling opened so the engine can be seen?

 

These are all fun questions I plan to address before I start gluing parts together. Any suggestions or ideas are very welcomed.

 

Harold

 

 

Edited December 22, 2022 by Sergeant

[Pete Robin]

3 hours ago, Sergeant said:

My eye surgery was successful and I’m on the mend with better vision than I have had for many years. So, I am ready to get started on this Lancaster build again, but this time I decided to do more forward planning about the way I want the aircraft to look when its finished.

 

This morning I read three reviews and each one has its principal area of focus but overall, I would say Gary Wickham has the best review for my stage in the assembly process. Last July I started this Lancaster build with the intention of completing the interior first. However, since then I have learned that only the pilot’s area and a small corner of the navigator’s table can be seen when the fuselage is closed, and the fuselage windows are covered. This begs the question then, what is the point of all the interior detail as shown in Adam O’Brien’s review if no one can see it?

 

I am conflicted on the question of painting and weathering interior detail that no one will ever see. The perfectionist in me says do it regardless, and the pragmatist in me says why spend the time and effort.

 

1. Tom Cleaver - Review with good Lancaster history section: https://imodeler.com/2021/07/h-k-models-avro-lancaster-b-mk-i/

 

2. Gary Wickham - Pre-build Review with comparisons to HKM 1:32 Lancaster, Tamiya 1:48 Lancaster and actual Lancaster aircraft: https://www.scalespot.com/reviews/kits/lanc48-hkm/review.htm

 

3. Adam O’Brien - Build Review, Part 1: https://www.themodellingnews.com/2021/04/build-review-pt-i-48th-scale-avro.html

 

Another question came to mind as I read the reviews, should the bomb bay doors be opened when I intend to show the model in a parked condition? This of course changes the shape of the aircraft.

 

And what about the landing flaps, should they be down as is commonly seen on the two airworthy Lancaster’s when they are parked?

 

This 1:48 model has four nicely detailed Merlin engines and since I plan to display it on the ground parked as it were should I have at least one cowling opened so the engine can be seen?

 

These are all fun questions I plan to address before I start gluing parts together. Any suggestions or ideas are very welcomed.

 

Harold

 

 

Harold, hope you don't mind an old duffer jumping in. The question of flaps up or flaps down at the end of the day, is entirely up to you and your tastes. We kinda had the same discussion on another Lanc build on this forum. Photos of aircraft (any aircraft!, not just Lancs) during WW2 with the flaps down are rare. In my library (and please, it is not exhaustive), I found one photo and that was of a Lancaster taxiing. Didn't say whether it was pre or post landing though, but it was on the Perimeter Track. In the other thread were some comments from a chap who actually works within the BBMF and he stated that they keep the flaps down to prevent damage to the system, if I remember correctly. Pilots Notes seems to indicate that the flaps were kept up and only lowered once started for a test, (that is down fully, then immediately up fully). They are then included in the pre-take off settings immediately prior to starting on the runway. It also states that the flaps are fully raised as soon as possible after landing. This was maybe a Wartime instruction and things were done differently during the conflict. Who knows, the problem being there isn't anyone left who would know to ask (shame).

So, like I said, it's your choice.

Looking forward to the rest of your build, most inspiring.

Regards

Pete

P.S. Glad the surgery went ok.

Edited December 22, 2022 by Pete Robin
Added a line

[Sergeant]

Thank you, Pete. I just read about flaps down this morning in one of the reviews I mentioned.

 

I know you are an RAF veteran and would have more knowledge than most people.

 

Since the flaps can be up or down which position would give the viewer the most detail. The reason I ask is I have an Eduard PE flap kit which I would like to use if it enhances the detail properly.

 

Harold

https://www.eduard.com/out/media/481063.pdf

Edited December 22, 2022 by Sergeant

[Pete Robin]

40 minutes ago, Sergeant said:

Thank you, Pete. I just read about flaps down this morning in one of the reviews I mentioned.

 

I know you are an RAF veteran and would have more knowledge than most people.

 

Since the flaps can be up or down which position would give the viewer the most detail. The reason I ask is I have an Eduard PE flap kit which I would like to use if it enhances the detail properly.

 

Harold

https://www.eduard.com/out/media/481063.pdf

Hey Harold, deepest apologies mate if I gave the impression I'm a veteran. Can't claim that accolade old son, although it sometimes feels like I'm that old.😳 The RAF character I mentioned, is I believe, a serving member of the RAF.

My gut feeling, seeing as you have the etch set, is go for flaps down and say the ground crew were testing them.

What will happen now is that hoardes of folks will turn up all with photos proving my theory a right load of old b******s.

Go where your instinct takes you. It's your model at the end of the day and if it makes you happy, then that's alright in the world.

Regards,

Pete

 

[Sergeant]

Pete, no problem it’s my mistake. I know what you mean about saying they should be down and six other people will say they should be up, it’s a matter of opinion and until I find a reason not too I am planning on having the flaps down.

 

Harold

Edited December 23, 2022 by Sergeant

[Sergeant]

@alzictorini Hello Al, can you answer a couple of questions for me regarding Lancaster landing flaps operation. Looking at several photographs and a video of the wing operation it appears the landing flaps are either up (closed) or down (extended or opened). What is the correct terminology for landing flap position? From your experience at RAF Coningsby would it be standard operating procedure to have the flaps down when the aircraft is parked and no maintenance is taking place?

 

I purchased an Eduard photo-etched landing flaps and bomb bay detail kits, but as I am still deciding how best to present this model on the ground as it were I am uncertain about the landing flaps and bomb bay doors position. I would imagine the bomb bay doors open on the ground when loading bombs and during inspections and maintenance. Otherwise they would be closed is that correct?

 

Harold

 

Below is a link for the HK Model instructions and Eduard photo-etched landing flap instructions.
 

https://www.scalemates.com/products/img/4/9/1/1335491-98-instructions.pdf

 

https://www.eduard.com/out/media/481063.pdf

Edited December 23, 2022 by Sergeant

[elger]

FWIW - I wouldn't worry about the accuracy of having flaps up or down. There are so many things that won't be accurate the way we tend to model these aircraft: when parked, wheels would have been covered by a tarp, the guns would have been removed, and the bomb sight was probably removed when the aircraft was not in operation just to name a few things. The only way you could have a bomber type the way we usually build it accurately is the moment right before the crew enters before takeoff. But where is their equipment? Guns are there, but why is there not a bomb load in some examples? Why are the bomb doors even open if they're about to take off? Where are the wheel chocks? Are all the levers and switches in the cockpit in the correct position for this moment in time?

 

My point being: you're working on a representation in scale of a real thing that existed at some point. With so many moving parts on this real thing it's impossible to say whether it existed in the exact configuration -up or down, open or closed - of these moving parts ("at 2:04:53 PM, June 3rd 1942, the flaps of this aircraft were definitely down while all the guns were fitted and all tarps were removed from the aircraft but the crew was not in the aircraft for some reason"). But what would be the position of each of the propellers in this scenario?? Unless you're recreating the exact configuration based on a photograph you'll never reach complete accuracy.

 

It's not the same as striving for the overall accuracy of the configuration of the hardware - your wonderful turret being a great example of that. We can and I think should strive for accuracy in that area. Was Aircraft X fitted with Aspect Y is one of the most fun bits of research in this hobby, speaking for myself.

 

You're working on a piece of painted plastic with some resin and metal parts that looks like a Lancaster reduced by a factor of 48. Real Lancasters had flaps that could be up or down. If you like to show the flaps in the down position on your model, I say go for it.

[alzictorini]

Morning guys

 

Harold, elger does have a point but, the pilots notes for a lanc state that full flaps will be used on landing and they should remain there until leaving the runway when they will e placed in the fully up position. When I go round the bbmf they are in all sorts of positions, as you say, depends what servicing the g/crew have had on the night before. 

[Sergeant]

@Pete Robin @elger @alzictorini I believe you are saying a scale model is a representation of something, a static object without moving parts, it must then by necessity be presented as a snapshot in time. If I want several features to be seen on this model they may not be the way an actual aircraft would look in World War II, but it is the only way to show these features on one model at the same time.

 

Fortunately, many of the photographs I've seen of Lancaster's on the ground show multiple operations being conducted such as refueling, loading bombs, inspections, and maintenance. I would like this model to represent an aircraft in grown-crew preparation for a mission.

 

Harold

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited December 25, 2022 by Sergeant

[alzictorini]

Sounds good to me Harold, a proper servicing in progress.

[Sergeant]

On 12/24/2022 at 6:52 AM, alzictorini said:

Sounds good to me Harold, a proper servicing in progress.

Thank you, Al and thank you for the Lancaster information.

 

I have wanted to build a diorama around refueling an aircraft and Accurate Armor in Glasgow, Scotland has released two different 1:48 AEC (Matador style cab) fueling trucks and the David Brown Airfield Tractor. Belcher Bits in Ontario, Canada has released a resin RAF bomb trolley. So at some point in the future I may build an WW2 RAF airfield scene around this HKM Avro Lancaster, refueling, bomb loading, inspection, and maintenance.

 

Harold

 

 

 

Edited December 31, 2022 by Sergeant

[elger]

The Night Bombers documentary has some good descriptions and visuals of day-to-day operations of an RAF airbase - including a Matador refueller.

 

 

[Sergeant]

28 minutes ago, elger said:

The Night Bombers documentary has some good descriptions and visuals of day-to-day operations of an RAF airbase - including a Matador refueller.

 

 

Thank you, @elger this is a very informative video. You may not be aware that my Uncle Harold was a Lancaster pilot in Group 1 of Bomber Command 153 Squadron. Watching this video I can almost see my uncle doing what so many RAF crews did during the war.

 

Harold

[Pete Robin]

Hey Harold, good for you in deciding how YOU want to depict and display YOUR model. It's always gonna be a 'snapshot' unless you are one of the magicians who can make animatronic figures and working systems on the a/c.

I like your idea of the diorama. The Daily Inspections involved multiple personnel, many operations, often unseen, often in less than optimal conditions. I truly hope you can portray the scene that's in your mind's eye.

Am looking forward to seeing your results.

I hope your uncle survived the war. My uncle was a rear gunner, but not on Lancs (3 tours and a DFC). However, the family has a very tenuous link to the Dambusters. My brother in law's mother is related somehow to Les Knight, but never knew him.

 

Regards, as always,

Pete

 

[Sergeant]

On 12/25/2022 at 2:52 PM, Pete Robin said:

I hope your uncle survived the war. My uncle was a rear gunner, but not on Lancs (3 tours and a DFC). However, the family has a very tenuous link to the Dambusters. My brother in law's mother is related somehow to Les Knight, but never knew him.

 

Regards, as always,

Pete

 

Thank you, Pete. Unfortunately, my uncle did not survive the war, he died on 17 December 1944. His name was Harold, but he went by Harry in the RAF. He was 26-years old, unmarried, son of a Missouri dairy farmer.

 

Harold

Edited December 27, 2022 by Sergeant

[Pete Robin]

21 hours ago, Sergeant said:

Thank you, Pete. Unfortunately, my uncle did not survive the war, he died on 17 December 1944. His name was Harold, but he went by Harry in the RAF. He was 26-years old, unmarried, son of a Missouri dairy farmer.

 

Harold

Bugger. Am sorry to read that. So many didn't make it and I guess my family were lucky. All that went to war came home uninjured but not unmarked.

WO William Prince joined in 1941 and served most of a tour with Coastal Command (Whitley's I believe), then finished nearly 2 1/2 tours with Bomber Command. Mostly in Halifaxes. Finished the war with 51 squadron which is where he was awarded the DFC.

In his words he was awarded it for staying alive, not for anything brave. Geez, just getting into a rear turret was bravery in my eyes, but I guess they were maybe "better" men than I.

I am looking forward to seeing your model progress and your solutions to the conundrums along the way.

I am sure it will turn into a fitting tribute to some "better" men!

Regards,

Pete

[Sergeant]

13 hours ago, Pete Robin said:

Bugger. Am sorry to read that. So many didn't make it and I guess my family were lucky. All that went to war came home uninjured but not unmarked.

WO William Prince joined in 1941 and served most of a tour with Coastal Command (Whitley's I believe), then finished nearly 2 1/2 tours with Bomber Command. Mostly in Halifaxes. Finished the war with 51 squadron which is where he was awarded the DFC.

In his words he was awarded it for staying alive, not for anything brave. Geez, just getting into a rear turret was bravery in my eyes, but I guess they were maybe "better" men than I.

I am looking forward to seeing your model progress and your solutions to the conundrums along the way.

I am sure it will turn into a fitting tribute to some "better" men!

Regards,

Pete

Thank you, Pete. I am glad your family member made it through the war safe. Last week I received many documents thanks to a very kind RAF Warrant Officer who went out of his way to help me obtain my uncle's records. This information has brought some closure to my family who never knew much about what our uncle did in the RAF.

 

War is a terrible business, it is frightening, horrible, and bloody.

 

Harold

 

Edited December 28, 2022 by Sergeant

[Pete Robin]

6 hours ago, Sergeant said:

Thank you, Pete. I am glad your family member made it through the war safe. Last week I received many documents thanks to a very kind RAF Warrant Officer who went out of his way to help me obtain my uncle's records. This information has brought some closure to my family who never knew much about what our uncle did in the RAF.

 

War is a terrible business and anyone who finds glory in it is very fortunate because those young faces of combat veterans hide the truth that is frightening, horrible, and bloody.

 

Harold

 

I hear ya, and I'm right there with ya!

 

RAF Warrant Officers and the non-coms that go along with them are the salt of the earth! It was a Flight Sergeant at the modern 51 Squadron who found the Citation for WO Prince's DFC for me. Unfortunately there were closer members of his family that claimed his Service Records and I couldn't get a look. They are a strange set on that side of the family LOL, I think they come from the "six fingered" county to the south of the river from us!😉

I think it can do the soul no harm to learn of our ancesters and maybe learn from them.

 

Regards

Pete

 

P.S. No offence is intended to anyone from the County of Lincolnshire, or that bit of it that borders with the River Humber, whatever it is known as these days.

I will happily take all the replies from said denizens on the chin and hope it is sent with the "fun" that the original comment was made with.

 

[Sergeant]

Thank you, Pete. I hope no one takes offense, mate.

 

Harold

Edited December 28, 2022 by Sergeant