1/48 Avro Lancaster Mk. X (Serial No. KB700) aka The Ruhr Express - August 1, 1943

[Johnson]

Fascinating build Harold, looks like a lovely kit.

[Cees Broere]

Indeed, fascination build. Although the ventral turret was deleted, the hole was kept and just sheeted over. During one of the recoveries I was involved in, part of the underfuselage showed the hole clearly.

[dogsbody]

1 hour ago, Cees Broere said:

Indeed, fascination build. Although the ventral turret was deleted, the hole was kept and just sheeted over. During one of the recoveries I was involved in, part of the underfuselage showed the hole clearly.

 

They later used that spot to mount the H2S bombing radar.

 

 

Chris

[Sergeant]

3 hours ago, Johnson said:

Fascinating build Harold, looks like a lovely kit.

 

2 hours ago, Cees Broere said:

Indeed, fascination build. Although the ventral turret was deleted, the hole was kept and just sheeted over. During one of the recoveries I was involved in, part of the underfuselage showed the hole clearly.

 

52 minutes ago, dogsbody said:

 

They later used that spot to mount the H2S bombing radar.

 

 

Chris

Thank you, Charlie, Cees Broere and Chris. In earlier posts we discussed when the FN-64 ventral turret was fitted on Canadian Built Lancaster KB700. I believe it was Chris who mentioned that FN-64 may not have been on the aircraft when it left Canada, but it was installed while it was in RAF service.

 

I have seen several videos regarding the Avro Lancaster, but I just started another that show original video from August 1942 when KB700 flew to the U.K. There is no FN-64, but there is a photograph below of KB700 with the turret clearly visible.

 

My intention was to build the Ruhr Express KB700 the way it would have looked while in RAF service. However, I did not take into consideration modifications that took place during its 49 missions. So, I have decided to make this build represent KB700 after it left Canada and before the H2S Bombing radar was installed.

 

Harold

 

 

[Brian]

Just to sow further confusion, I have seen pictures of Canadian aircraft ready to be ferried to UK with no turrets installed and smooth fairings over-the  nose and rear turrets and have read that these were to be installed over there.  You must remember too that the Malton event was a propaganda event ending with a takeoff for Europe.  The flight apparently went to St. Hubert for further work on the Lanc.  HTH.

[Sergeant]

3 hours ago, Brian said:

Just to sow further confusion, I have seen pictures of Canadian aircraft ready to be ferried to UK with no turrets installed and smooth fairings over-the  nose and rear turrets and have read that these were to be installed over there.  You must remember too that the Malton event was a propaganda event ending with a takeoff for Europe.  The flight apparently went to St. Hubert for further work on the Lanc.  HTH.

Thank you, Brian.

Edited December 5, 2022 by Sergeant

[Modelholic]

It makes sense to leave the turret off until the aircraft is over the pond if it can be manufactured and fitted in Britain. The weight saved would help with fuel consumption. I would hazard that none of the Mgs were fitted for the flight (along with other things I'm sure).

Tom

 

[Sergeant]

The manufactures drawing shown in the background on my computer is from @dogsbody and @Air Ministry it allowed me make corrections to the ventral turret dimensions that I carved out of resin. The turret is now an accurate 1:48 scale model of the original FN-64 turret.

 

To create this model turret I mounted a raw resin block on a Dremel #401 mandrel that is normally used for polishing bits, but first drilling a 3/32" hole in the center of the block to take the stress off the resin when the mandrel is screwed into the hole. Then I turned the resin block with a Dremel 3000 Rotary Tool at 12000 to 15000 rpm like a lath using an 8-inch b-a-s-t-a-r-d file as a cutting tool. Afterward I used a 400 and 1500 grit sanding sponge to smooth out the surface.

 

To form the notch in the turret I used a Dremel #9902 carving bit like the one show below. I enjoy carving resin, but I don’t know a lot about its properties, so I use Eduard resin which from experience is excellent quality for carving. It’s not too soft or too brittle and that is important when carving with a rotary tool.

 

Harold

 

 

 

Edited December 8, 2022 by Sergeant

[Sergeant]

I completed the scratch-built FN-64 ventral turret with Browning .303 caliber machine gun barrels. This 1:48 scale turret is made with light and dark resin bits saved from Eduard Lancaster and Spitfire kits. I glued the resin bits together in a block large enough to carve and then turned the piece in a Dremel rotary tool like a lath to get its primary shape called a drum in the original Nash & Thompson Ltd. drawing dated 12-5-1941. The brass pins in the bottom of the turret are for placement on the fuselage and will reinforce the glue joint.

 

For me this is what scale modeling is all about, creating something that is realistic looking and as accurate as possible. I chose to work on this part of the build first because I'm going to have eye surgery in a few days, and I did not want to start something that could ruin the model. Since the turret is an add on, I could rebuild it if I messed up too bad. After surgery I should have two good eyes again and be able to continue this Lancaster build.

 

Harold

Edited December 26, 2022 by Sergeant

[alzictorini]

What a top read. Research, design followed my modifications and build, following this with interest.

[Thom216]

Great looking turret. If you could, I'd say make a resin copy of it just to have a spare if needs arise.

 

Good luck with the surgery!

[Sergeant]

On 12/8/2022 at 5:54 AM, alzictorini said:

What a top read. Research, design followed my modifications and build, following this with interest.

 

On 12/8/2022 at 5:58 AM, Thom216 said:

Great looking turret. If you could, I'd say make a resin copy of it just to have a spare if needs arise.

 

Good luck with the surgery!

Thank you @alzictorini and @Thom216 I like the idea of making a resin copy for a spare. Not sure if you are talking about resin molds, but I have wanted to try resin molding to create Atlantic Salmon Fly decorations like coasters, paperweights and items you can hang on the wall. I have been a fly fisherman for 50-years and while I can't get around to well anymore, I still like tying flies in traditional British and Canadian patterns for display. The idea of learning how to make a resin copy of something or cast an object in resin sounds like a new skill that I would enjoy.

 

Thank you @Thom216 for wishing me well in surgery. I do not like needles, and when the surgeon described what she was going to do to my eye, well I can only say thank goodness for anesthesia but I am prepared for whatever it takes to be able to see again.

 

Harold

 

Below are examples of a resin coaster or paperweight and an Atlantic Salmon fly I would like to cast in resin.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited December 26, 2022 by Sergeant

[Thom216]

@Sergeant Yes, making molds and resin copies. If you are just doing a single part mold, which would be perfect for that, it's pretty easy to do.

[alzictorini]

Morning guys from the UK

 

You mention the making of molds. I'm currently running a thread and in it i do a number of descriptions on mold making, especially the one piece type you mention above. If you are interested, see this Britmodeller link HERE. Its of a similar nature, Avro Manchester Bomber.

 

Hope it helps

[Sergeant]

On 12/10/2022 at 1:21 AM, alzictorini said:

Morning guys from the UK

 

You mention the making of molds. I'm currently running a thread and in it i do a number of descriptions on mold making, especially the one piece type you mention above. If you are interested, see this Britmodeller link HERE. Its of a similar nature, Avro Manchester Bomber.

 

Hope it helps

Al your project is so fascinating. I am reading your posts on the Avro Manchester at 2:46 AM (Pacific Standard Time) and I am wide awake. Think I need some coffee though to finish reading this work you are doing with a 3D printer, CAD software and resin molds.

 

Your project has another area of interest to me; I have been talking with Martin Willoughby about his Lancaster project at the Avro Heritage Museum, specifically the restoration of an FN-64 ventral turret. I am also an honorary overseas member of RAF Bomber Command, 153 Squadron Association because my uncle was a Lancaster pilot in the Squadron while they were in Scampton. Sadly, he died along with three of his crew members on 17 December 1944.

 

https://153squadronassociation.weebly.com/

 

I will be following you with great interest.

 

Harold

Edited December 12, 2022 by Sergeant

[alzictorini]

Ha, sorry for keeping you awake Harold - we have very similar interests I can see. The AVRO Heritage Centre guys provided my initial drawings for my project. I hope to visit the centre next year with a team from the RAF Coningsby Heritage Centre. I am spoilt in a way as I get to see a Lancaster just about every day here at RAF Coningsby and my mates at East Kirkby are rebuilding "Just Jane" to flying standard also (thats 2 Lancs in throwing distance for me).

 

Keep up the good work buddy

 

 

[woody37]

Love that turret, this build is tempting me to get my Lanc on the bench!

 

[Sergeant]

7 hours ago, woody37 said:

Love that turret, this build is tempting me to get my Lanc on the bench!

 

Thank you @woody37

 

Harold

Edited December 10, 2022 by Sergeant

[Sergeant]

On 12/10/2022 at 3:24 AM, alzictorini said:

Ha, sorry for keeping you awake Harold - we have very similar interests I can see. The AVRO Heritage Centre guys provided my initial drawings for my project. I hope to visit the centre next year with a team from the RAF Coningsby Heritage Centre. I am spoilt in a way as I get to see a Lancaster just about every day here at RAF Coningsby and my mates at East Kirkby are rebuilding "Just Jane" to flying standard also (thats 2 Lancs in throwing distance for me).

 

Keep up the good work buddy

 

 

No problem, Al. I just happened to check my email in the middle of the night and found your post. As I mentioned on your Avro Manchester thread, I would like to use your mould making and casting process to make a resin copy of the 1:48 FN-64 ventral turret I carved out of resin bits. In my application I will call my carved resin turret a plug so to avoid confusion and the first question is how best to position the plug. Looking at the photograph below, please notice the bottom of the plug is curved to match the contour of the fuselage. So, if I understand your process this will allow silicone to bleed under the plug. In which case should I make a two-piece mold? I can remove the brass locating pins and the machine gun barrels since they were glued with cyanoacrylate.

 

Harold

 

Edited December 12, 2022 by Sergeant

[alzictorini]

Evening BM's from a frosty Woodhall Spa in Lincolnshire................

 

OK, I promised Harold I would give a quick demo with regards to making moulds and casts so here we go. The topic is Harold's turret.

 

Initially I needed something that looks like Harold's turret above and going by his pics I designed something quick in fusion 360, printed it off on my Creality in grey PLA and here is my small turret:

 

 

I next made some vents and a pour hole which i would attach to the plug turret:

 

 

 

I next stuck them all to a base:

 

 

 

I then stuck this to a piece of evergreen sheet (pritsticked in place for easy removal later) and then build a wall around it using lego (again pritsticked in place):

 

 

I mixed some silicone next to pour into the lego pre-mould ( I made extra  for another mould that's why there's quite a lot in the pic):

 

 

Once well mixed, I poured the silicone into the corner of the lego pre-mould and let it set for 12 hours. Post the wait I pulled apart the lego:

 

 

 

I then cut out the plug with a sharp scalpel:

 

 

This then springs back into shape and is ready to take a resin cast. I mixed a 1:1 mix of resin and set but I just left it plain, ie no colour was added so this cast would set off white (almost a cream colour):

 

first part:

 

 

Then the second part, mix well:

 

 

Once mixed, I just pour the mixture into the main hole and wait until it comes up level via the vent holes:

 

 

 

After about 15 minutes the resin had set and I pulled the new cast from the silicone:

 

 

 

All you have to do next is cut away the sprew (in this case they are the vents and pour hole):

 

 

Harold, I hope this helps you and the other readers who are interested in casting.

 

Enjoy

 

 

 

[Sergeant]

Thank you, Al. You make it look so easy, all most matter of fact but your confidence probably comes from a lot of experience. I plan to get started on this in a few days. However, yesterday I had eye surgery to remove a cataract in my right eye. There were complications and while I do not understand what the surgeons had to do; I can tell you the operation took them almost an hour under anesthesia, but everything worked out fine. The doctor wants me to take a few days to fully recover. So, no modelling for a week my wife said, and she is keeping an eye on me because she said I tend to misbehave when she is not looking. 😇

 

When I purchased the HKM 1:48 Avro Lancaster Mk. I model in mid 2021 I was planning to build a Lancaster Mk. III like serial number PB633, code P4-J that my Uncle Harold flew. Since then, I learned a lot more about the Lancaster, where it was built and how it was used by RAF Bomber Command. From my research I learned that Lancaster crews stayed together unless someone was killed, hurt, or sick, but as a crew they would fly different Lancaster's night after night to different targets in Germany. Sometimes bombing the same target several nights in a week. By 1943 it was required that a bomber crew stay over the target long enough to take photographs of bomb blasts so an assessment by RAF Bomber Command could be made of how effective the mission was to reach their objective.

 

I also learned that most of the Canadian built Lancasters were assigned to squadrons in Bomber Group 6 and that my uncle's squadron (153) was in Group 1. However, since my uncle was an RCAF pilot and flew 9 different British made Lancaster’s in 11 missions I wanted to honor his memory in the RCAF, the tremendous effort by the workers in Britain and Canada who built these amazing airplanes and the sacrifice of RAF bomber crews who maintained and flew them. To do that I plan to build this 1:48 scale replica of the first Canadian built Avro Lancaster Mk. X (KB700) aka Ruhr Express patterned after the British built Lancaster Mk. I R5727.

 

When this project is finished I plan to display the model and its history at the American Legion and Veterans Hospital in Vancouver, Washington and loan the model to a USAF pilot mate of mine to display at the Air National Guard 142nd Fighter Wing in Portland, Oregon

 

Harold

 

Edited December 17, 2022 by Sergeant

[Sergeant]

Good morning, Al. After reviewing your demonstration turret photographs I have a few questions.

 

1. My first question is purely academic because I understand the turret you made is for demonstration of your mould making and casting process. If I were to get Autodesk Fusion 360 which I was trained to use or a similar design software and create a graphic solid model like you did, could a vendor with the right software interface and 3D printer make parts for me rather than my carving them out of a block of resin?

 

2. The Nash & Thompson Ltd. drawing below shows the front of the FN-64 turret drum (nacelle) slopping back at what I believe to be >60 degrees measured from the horizontal plane. The convex shape of my turret bottom is made to match the cross-section profile of the fuselage. My question is can features like these be made with a 3D printer or, do they require secondary operations like carving and filing?

 

3. Is there an minimum diameter you would recommend for the pour hole and the air vents. In other words do those openings need to be a certain minimum size relative to the area of the turret plug?

 

4. In the video you recommended the other day it mentioned placing the air vents at the top of the plug as well as any features that may trap air and create a void in the casting. Is there some rule of thumb or guideline for features that trap air?

 

Harold

 

Al it was nice of you to make a demonstration model of the turret mould and casting. It made it easier for me to understand the process. I am really excited to get started.

 

Harold

 

 

Edited December 26, 2022 by Sergeant

[alzictorini]

Morning Harold

 

1.      If I were to get Autodesk Fusion 360 which I was trained to use or a similar design software and create a graphic solid model like you did, could a vendor with the right software interface and 3D printer make parts for me rather than my carving them out of a block of resin?

If you create a design in fusion 360 and save it as an STL. File, you can give, send or email that file to anyone who has a 3D printer (any of the 3 different types). Their slicing software will recognise the file and printing your design is simple.

 

2.      The Nash & Thompson Ltd. drawing below shows the front of the FN-64 turret drum (nacelle) slopping back at what I believe to be >60 degrees measured from the horizontal plane. The convex shape of my turret bottom is made to match the cross-section profile of the fuselage. My question is can features like these be made with a 3D printer or, do they require secondary operations like carving and filing?

3D printers will have no issues printing a turret such as yours. I use a Creality CR 10S Pro extrusion type or a fused deposition modeling (FDM) printer, also known as fused filament fabrication (FFF), its the most widely used type of 3D printing type on the market. FDM 3D printers work by extruding thermoplastic filaments, such as ABS (Acrylonitrile Butadiene Styrene), PLA (Polylactic Acid), through a heated nozzle, melting the material and applying the plastic layer by layer to a build platform. Each layer is laid down one at a time until the part is complete however, there are better printers for a more quality finish such as stereolithography (SLA) and selective laser sintering (SLS) types which use lasers and are the industry manufacturing leaders. These are really accurate and require little sanding and correction. 

 

I can set my printer to the slowest speed and finest setting but I will always give my printed item a sanding before painting (just like a model aircraft from the box). As mine is an extrusion type printer you can get lines (look at my close up pic of my 3D printed turret above - it was a quick rough print, only 3 mins to print) which I sand out and at time fill with filler.

 

3.      Is there an minimum diameter you would recommend for the pour hole and the air vents. In other words do those openings need to be a certain minimum size relative to the area of the turret plug?

Vent holes, I tend to go as small as 1-2mm but the pour hole needs to be able to get the resin in there without blocking so Im a min of about 4-5mm.

 

4. In the video you recommended the other day it mentioned placing the air vents at the top of the plug as well as any features that may trap air and create a void in the casting. Is there some rule of thumb or guideline for features that trap air?

Just think of it like cave diving. There’s this cave full of water you can scuba dive in but at certain points in the roof, there is trapped air caught in certain crevices. When you position your prototype plug prior to making a mould for it, think – what will be the points where that air will trap as the resin comes in (the highest points that wont fill). This is where you need to place a vent to atmosphere hole. Ive found a nice diagram on line which I copied, it gives you a good example of the high points and where to place your vent(s).

 

Edited December 17, 2022 by alzictorini

[alzictorini]

Harold

 

Best you be restin those eye's or else "Her In Doors" will be giving you some!! 

 

 

[Sergeant]

Thank you, Al for answering my questions, so promptly.

 

Harold

 

 

Edited December 17, 2022 by Sergeant