Jump to content

November Update from Arma Hobby


John Thompson
 Share

Recommended Posts

5 hours ago, Piotr Mikolajski said:

Well, you are wrong. The Luftwaffe was, still is and probably will be for a long time to come the best-selling subject in 1/72.

Well, for IBG I truly hope that it sells well enough.If that's the case they will probably be encouraged to release more 1/72 aircraft in the future. And that benefits us all. I still maintain that their FW 190 Doras are probably not as popular as the Special Hobby Bf 109 Emils, but they probably didn't expect that. 

But to be honest, I can't understand what is this fascination and preoccupation with all things related to Nazi Germany. It's even more evident among armour modellers, it seems that every box has to have "German" written on the cover. Even MiniArt's civilians have to be Germans, and even the frigging tractor has to be German (which Germans didn't have many. I demand more 1/35 horses).

 

But to quote one Kinks songs, Give the People What They Want.

  • Like 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 minutes ago, TheKinksFan said:

. Even MiniArt's civilians have to be Germans, and even the frigging tractor has to be German (which Germans didn't have many. I demand more 1/35 horses).

 

 

I'm with you for more horses but more "german horses"  😄 

  • Haha 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 hours ago, Piotr Mikolajski said:

Again: you see what you want to see.  Since 2010 Fine Molds has released 43 newly tooled model families, of which only five are aircraft in 1/72. In Eduard's case it's 46 to 11, in IBG Models' case it's 55 to 6. It means Fine Molds has an average of 3.3 newly tooled models per year, but you see one newly tooled aircraft in 1/72 every 2.5 years. For Eduard average is 3.5 a year, but you see a newly tooled model less often than once a year. For IBG Models it is 4.2 per year, but you see a new model once every two years.

It's what I said that the best option is to develope families of different subjects that you can alternate in their issues instead of having only a single subject proposed in thousand of different boxes. Eduard and Fine Molds have a family of 109 and they are selling different versions and subtypes, along with other different Types in the same moment. They don't sell only Bf 109K  ! I hope now I'v explained better my opinion.   

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 11/21/2022 at 8:59 AM, TheKinksFan said:

But to be honest, I can't understand what is this fascination and preoccupation with all things related to Nazi Germany.

 

It is not a question of Nazism. OK, we probably have some margin of those fascinated by Hitler, but talking about idiots is pointless.

 

For many, it is the choice of the opponent that their country's armed forces fought against. If I have Polish planes from September 1939 on my shelf, I want some German planes too. If I have Polish squadrons from the Battle of Britain, I also want Bf 109E, Bf 110, He 111P/H and Do 17Z. The same with ships and tanks, but lets stay with the Luftwaffe.

 

For many, it's a question of technical solutions in which the Third Reich led the way. Can anyone with an interest in aviation engineering be blamed for having a Bv 141, Fw 189, Me 163 or Mistel on the shelf?

 

For many it is as trivial a thing as markings and camouflage colours. They range from the boring and repetitive pre-war ones to the complicated ones from the second half of the war. There are complex and colourful quick identification systems. Alongside standard ones there are desert and winter schemes. There is a whole family of paint schemes for night fighters. On top of this, many modellers want a challenge when painting a model and this is something neither RAF nor USAAF machines will provide. Mottling or Wellenmuster were common in the Luftwaffe and these schemes were seen on many types of aircraft. And we're still not talking about specialised camouflage schemes like reconnaissance or training aircraft in the RAF, but we can find those in the Luftwaffe too.

 

The same is with tanks and figures - I may not like the Waffen-SS, but I can't pretend that their uniforms are boring. At most, I can give up buying such figures. But again - if I want to build Battle of the Bulge models, it's a bit hard to do such a collection without Waffen-SS.

  

On 11/21/2022 at 8:59 AM, TheKinksFan said:

Even MiniArt's civilians have to be Germans


It's a bit hard to release civilian figures in 1/35 and not include the Germans. But contrary to what you are trying to portray, the truth is different. This is probably the full list of civilian 1/35 figures that MiniArt has released so far and that it has announced for this year, but for reasons that are quite well known items announced for 2022 have not had the chance to be released yet.

  • 2014 - 38004 - French Civilians '30s-'40s
  • 2014 - 38006 - Sitting Passengers '30-'40s
  • 2016 - 38007 - Tram Crew w/ Passengers
  • 2017 - 38011 - Soviet Villagers
  • 2017 - 38015 - German Civilians 1930's-1940's (earlier released in WWII military line as #35086 - German Civilians)
  • 2019 - 38010 - German Train Station Staff 1930-40s
  • 2019 - 38017 - Auto Travelers 1930-40s
  • 2020 - 38012 - German Railroad Staff 1930-40s
  • 2020 - 38019 - Car Maintenance 1930-40s
  • 2020 - 38034 - Afghan Civilians
  • 2020 - 38037 - French Civilians 30-40s
  • 2020 - 38039 - Welders
  • 2022 - 38050 - Civilian Drivers 1930-40s
  • 2022 - 38058 - Cafe Visitors 1930-40s
  • 2022 - 38062 - French Civilians in Cafe 1930-40s
  • 2022 - 38068 - Milkmen
  • 2022 - 38070 - Men with Wooden Barrels
  • 2022 - 38071 - Calvados Sellers
  • 2022 - 38073 - Butchers
  • 2022 - 38074 - Bakers
  • 2022 - 38076 - Cheese Sellers

Of the 21 sets of civilian figures, only three are German ones.

  

On 11/21/2022 at 8:59 AM, TheKinksFan said:

and even the frigging tractor has to be German

 

It doesn't make sense to develop a kit of one tractor, but there is sense in developing a whole family of them. And that's what MiniArt did - they developed a whole family of Lanz Bulldog tractors, and by changing small sprues they are able to release quite a few different versions. Which is important, because these tractors were popular in Europe and both before and after the war were produced in different countries. What's more - out of eight boxes, as many as six are civilian machines.


Is it German? Yes. But it's not the Germans' fault that their tractors were popular in Europe, so kits of their tractors have potential customers in many European countries. Instead of the Lanz Bulldog, should MiniArt release a tractor that was used in one country and no one had ever heard of it?

 

On 11/21/2022 at 9:14 AM, GioCare said:

It's what I said that the best option is to develope families of different subjects that you can alternate in their issues instead of having only a single subject proposed in thousand of different boxes.

 

But... do you realise that these companies are designing and selling their models in exactly this way? And have been doing so for years? And the fact that you don't see this is not the fault of any of these manufacturers?

 

On 11/21/2022 at 9:14 AM, GioCare said:

Eduard and Fine Molds have a family of 109 and they are selling different versions and subtypes, along with other different Types in the same moment.

 

Let's bring some logic into this discussion.

 

You write that Fine Molds has additional newer kits in addition to its 2005 Bf 109s. Yes, that's right, Fine Molds has released 5 new boxes in 2022: 1× F-14, 2× F-4, 2× Mitsubishi F-2.

But why do you expect IBG Models to have a newer kits in addition to its Fw 190D which is released this year? Like... seriously? And why do you think it can be compared to the Bf 109 from 17 years ago? Because it's WWII German fighter?

 

If this comparison were to make sense, you should be complaining that the Mitsubishi F-2 from Fine Molds, this year's new tooling, is "old" and should be followed by a newer model. Alternatively, you could write that the Fw 190D is an additional offering to the PZL.23 Karaś - which, although much younger, is equivalent to the Bf 109 in these comparisons, as a kit sold for years now. You have done neither.

 

And, since we are already comparing Fine Molds and IBG Models, let's look further at their ranges this year:

  • If we're talking about the new boxes in 1/72 scale range, then we have 5 boxes from Fine Molds and 24 boxes from IBG Models plus a 3× rebox of MiG-29s from Trumpeter. 
  • If we are talking about model families in 1/72, from which these boxes come, we have 3 from Fine Molds (F-14, F-4, Mitsubishi F-2) and 10 from IBG Models (Type 95, 38M Toldi, 40M Nimrod, A10 Cruiser, Cromwell/Centaur, Bedford QL, Diamond T, Lancia 3Ro, PZL P.11 AND Fw 190D).
  • If we are talking about new tool families in 1/72, we have Mitsubishi F-2 from Fine Molds and 40M Nimrod & Fw 190D from IBG Models.

 

Quite apart from the fact that we are writing off-topic, how about basing future such discussions on facts rather than imagined ideas? Especially imaginary ideas based on one's own modelling taste?

Basically in every such discussion I see the position of "if a company doesn't make kits I'm interested in, then their kits doesn't exist and the company isn't doing much, so their offer is poor and they should do something else so they will earn to release kits I would like to see". Well, just because some kits on offer aren't interesting to you doesn't mean they've ceased to exist. And because you don't buy it, it doesn't mean they are selling bad.

 

As I have two P-39s from RS Models, I'm not going to buy Arma's kit. But it doesn't matter, this kit exists and it sells very well - one wholesaler sold the entire shipment to shops within an hour. So do I whine that their new kit is not one from my wishlist? No. I'm not whining "they should release another one next month" either. Will I buy the announced P-51D? No, because this aircraft does not interest me at all. Will I complain that they released a Mustang, even though there is a Tamiya and Airfix version of exactly that? No. Will I complain that they could have released something else? Also no. I know they have to earn enough to have ROI and to earn for their next kits. And who knows, maybe they'll do something from my wishlist.

 

Last but not least - it's doesn't matter what company we are talking about. In every such discussion far too many people don't care about economic reality - costs, sales volume, income, return of investment, amount of time needed to research the subject, to design kit, to tool the moulds and so on. If you really know better what kind of kits should be released and how much these kits will earn, start your own business, even with crowdfunding. Moulds tooling industry will be more than happy with orders and another new company which would like to spend a lot of money. I'm dead serious here.

 

Right now economic reality is rather dim - costs skyrocketed and customers have less money. Due to rising costs and inflation, companies have to raise prices and we can expect this later this year and in 2023. Eduard writes about it for months already, in their newsletter Arma Hobby said the same. Companies need to keep financial balance to survive, not overinvest just because you want more and more brand new kits, all of them right now.

 

We know of one company that is said to have overinvested years ago. Dragon. Do you care about their releases in the last few years? No. Why? Because there is almost no new stuff out there, just reissues and some mixing of their old sets. This giant company over the last three years (2020-2022) has newly tooled 4.5 vehicles in 1/72 (4 new and one old with new 3D printed parts), 2 space kits in 1/400 and a 1/144 armoured train. Exactly 10 years earlier they newly tooled over 80 much larger kits. Think about it.

  • Like 4
Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 11/20/2022 at 2:17 AM, Piotr Mikolajski said:

 

Some people think that even slightest mention of aircraft type is equal to official announcement of its kit. They claim that this kit was announced, they demand releasing it and in case of not releasing they claim that company promises more than delivers.
I'm pretty sure I asked in one of threads about not released official Eduard announcements and there was no answer.

 

If we are at commercial pressures, there is some more factors in case of Eduard:

  1. Eduard is mainly manufacturer of all the aftermarket stuff. Always have been and in foreseeable future still will be.
  2. Eduard mainly releases 1/48 kits and this is no secret.
  3. Eduard suffered from enormous fire and this changed all their schedules to keep company working and bringing money needed to recover.
  4. Eduard makes all their stuff in-house so every delay in tooling mould for one kit will delay tooling moulds for other kits waiting in the pipeline.

Am I disappointed with all their 1/48 kits which are not released in 1/72 yet? Of course! But still - one of modeller's virtues should be patience, so I can wait a few years. And let's be honest - most of use has stashes full of kits, new models are released on weekly basis and there is no reason to whine about releasing schedule of any company.

 

To put it simply, the "72nd scale revolution" was a bold statement by Eduard CEO that the company couldn't live up to. They may have had legitimate reasons, sure, but it was simply a bad PR move to write this in the first place, not to mention after it was obvious the plan fell through, instead of communicating properly, they chose to stay quiet about it and hoped people would forgot. It was never meant as a kit amnouncement, or a joint project with other manufacturers.  But the problem is, their main customers, the Czech market, are not forgetful and in fact have very high expectations and are not afraid to be vocally critical if necessary. I know that is not "the spirit of britmodeller", as everyone is very polite and diplomatic here, whether it is reviews, model build criticism, etc.. However, on a Czech forum, you will see whole pages where Eduard is being slammed for including wrong colored roundels for Zero, missing or mismould parts, and so on. It is just cultural differences in the end, but similarly like my commebt above was not in "the spirit of britmodeller" as someone said, Eduards "72nd revolution" statement and subsequent inaction was not in "the spirit of their domestic 72nd scale modeling community".😂 That is all.

  • Like 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

So, and picking up on @John Thompson's original post, and leaving all the debate over model manufacturer's strategies aside, I look forward to the P/F-51D/K coming, whenever that is. I can wait, maybe not patiently, but I can wait. It will be worth it, I'm sure!

 

Martin

 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

To stay on topic: I wish the P51D is out in 2023, it's simply a wish with large margin to be realised ( considering the first Arma announcements), is it not 2023 and goes to 2024? never mind ... my stash is unlimited just today so ...😀

I would answer to Piotr in detail but we'd go out of this "P51D from Arma" topic. In short terms, I'm with Piotr with some aspect, some not, I think in his "demostration" tends too often to put word in a mouth that never be spoken in that way to demostrate the rightness  of his theory or though( not always, sometimes).

To close the topic: I have a dream, I have a wish that is:

IBG, after the Dora Family, would realise a new family of such quality for the next year. IBG will make the choice of the subject its market considered the best, this choice will be fine for my taste? I dont'have a cristal ball, I don't Know ... if it is I'd be happy, if not never mind (again the rule of the unlimited stash 😉

Ciao

 

PS: Piotr, I hope you don't be offended by my words, the limit of a foreign language can make misinterpretation. I like your analysies and statistics, sometimes I agree, sometimes not, it's the life even among modellers.   

Edited by GioCare
  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 2 weeks later...
On 23/11/2022 at 05:14, Piotr Mikolajski said:

It is not a question of Nazism. OK, we probably have some margin of those fascinated by Hitler, but talking about idiots is pointless.

I am German myself and was born in the GDR in the late 60's. Due to my upbringing and my own point of view, I am critical of National Socialism.

In my history class at school, the story ended in 1933 and continued in 1945.

So when I was 12, I started asking questions that my grandparents (they came from what is now Poland) didn't want or couldn't answer. Things like the Hitler-Stalin pact and pro-fascist states in Europe in the 1930's were completely hushed up. Only after reunification in Germany did I get the answers I was looking for! And I can accept the facts as they are now.

In the meantime, I hate any form of dictatorship, whether national socialist, communist or postcommunist because the individual plays no role in them.

After Iraq and Afghanistan, everyone should know that wars cannot be won!

They cost lives and are just a waste of money and resources! We have other problems in the world!

However, ever since I was a 9 year old boy I have been fascinated by german Air Force aircraft from ww 2.

I can't say why, it just is. That's why I'm glad that Eduard has opened up to the 1/72 community and they are also trying to fulfill these wishes. It would be good if other companies besides Fine Molds and now hopefully Eduard, had brought a good and buildable Bf 109 F in 1/72 to the market.

Hoping for peace in the world!

Sorry for the english - it was google translator... 🙂

Gustl

  • Like 13
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 1 month later...
On 3/12/2022 at 14:59, Troitzsch said:

Yo mismo soy alemán y nací en la RDA a finales de los años 60. Debido a mi educación y mi propio punto de vista, soy crítico con el nacionalsocialismo.

En mi clase de historia en la escuela, la historia terminó en 1933 y continuó en 1945.

Entonces, cuando tenía 12 años, comencé a hacer preguntas que mis abuelos (que venían de lo que ahora es Polonia) no querían o no podían responder. Cosas como el pacto Hitler-Stalin y los estados profascistas en Europa en la década de 1930 fueron silenciados por completo. ¡Solo después de la reunificación en Alemania obtuve las respuestas que estaba buscando! Y puedo aceptar los hechos tal como son ahora.

Mientras tanto, odio cualquier forma de dictadura, ya sea nacionalsocialista, comunista o poscomunista porque el individuo no juega ningún papel en ellas.

¡Después de Irak y Afganistán, todos deberían saber que las guerras no se pueden ganar!

¡Cuestan vidas y son solo una pérdida de dinero y recursos! ¡Tenemos otros problemas en el mundo!

Sin embargo, desde que era un niño de 9 años me han fascinado los aviones de la Fuerza Aérea Alemana de la Segunda Guerra Mundial.

No puedo decir por qué, simplemente lo es. Por eso me alegro de que Eduard se haya abierto a la comunidad 1/72 y ellos también estén intentando cumplir estos deseos. Sería bueno que otras empresas, además de Fine Moulds y ahora, con suerte, Eduard, hubieran traído al mercado un Bf 109 F bueno y construible en 1/72.

¡Esperando la paz en el mundo!

Perdón por el inglés - era traductor de google...🙂

Ráfaga

+1000

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
 Share

×
×
  • Create New...