vppelt68 Posted February 1, 2023 Share Posted February 1, 2023 A pity to see that smashing splinter scheme get hidden! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nickhenfrey Posted February 1, 2023 Author Share Posted February 1, 2023 Yes indeed.... I'm almost tempted to go without the white.... Perhaps f1+br just before the distemper? No, must be strong! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nickhenfrey Posted February 1, 2023 Author Share Posted February 1, 2023 btw I am probably going to (try to) follow the wear pattern and staining from this pic: it's a different plane, and has apparently more wear than the pic of my plane (F1+BR) , but I figure my plane would have looked similar at some stage 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevesoutar Posted February 3, 2023 Share Posted February 3, 2023 (edited) On 01/02/2023 at 21:27, nickhenfrey said: btw I am probably going to (try to) follow the wear pattern and staining from this pic: it's a different plane, and has apparently more wear than the pic of my plane (F1+BR) , but I figure my plane would have looked similar at some stage That is interesting - it has the Jumo engines with exhausts below the wing level, but the props have dragged lots of carbon onto the upper surface on the left side of each engine pod .... and more carbon all over the rear tailplane, which is what I have seen in some grainy in-flight photos of Ju-88s Edited February 4, 2023 by stevesoutar 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nickhenfrey Posted February 3, 2023 Author Share Posted February 3, 2023 4 hours ago, stevesoutar said: but the props have dragged lots of carbon onto the upper surface on the left side of each engine pod .... Ah, is that what it was? I assumed it was the asymmetric exhaust layout, but that wouldn't explain how it got on top like that! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vppelt68 Posted February 3, 2023 Share Posted February 3, 2023 1 hour ago, nickhenfrey said: Ah, is that what it was? I assumed it was the asymmetric exhaust layout, but that wouldn't explain how it got on top like that! Did Jumo-engined 88:s have one? I know Bf 110:s had, but to at least to my non-professional eyes the Ju 88 exhausts look quite symmetrical. V-P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevesoutar Posted February 3, 2023 Share Posted February 3, 2023 9 hours ago, nickhenfrey said: Ah, is that what it was? I assumed it was the asymmetric exhaust layout, but that wouldn't explain how it got on top like that! I haven't seen those strange exhaust shrouds with the bendy pipe on any aircraft other than BF-110s - I assume the odd positioning of just one exhaust was also something to do with prop wash on the starboard side of the cockpit. Most night fighters had shrouds fitted to hide the dull red exhaust headers, and to hide any sparks and fuel backfires which would make them visible in the blackness - I have no idea why the Messerschmitt factory chose to pipe three exhausts above the wing, and not the forth one In all the photos of Ju-88s with Jumo powerplants they all seem to be identical - the inverted V engine puts 6 exhaust headers out each side of the engine bay below the level of the wing - unless they are fitted with the radial BMW 801 engines. You can identify the Jumo powerplants, because they always have that circular grill with engine & oil cooling radiators fitted in segments, and 6 exhaust stubs each side. (Daimler Benz DB601 & DB605 engines also had the same layout) In that photo you can see the bare exhaust stubs on the nearside of the starboard engine, with exhaust staining flowing backwards below the wing - but also clearly see a bunch of carbon build up on the port side of each engine drawn or pushed up by airflow above the wing. I hadn't really seen a good close-up of a Ju-88 upper wing with that much engine filth collected until this one - thats gonna be a reference photo for a future build for me 👍 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nickhenfrey Posted February 7, 2023 Author Share Posted February 7, 2023 Update 7/2 5 days to go Sorry guys been a bit busy making steps forward… …and backward On 03/02/2023 at 15:00, vppelt68 said: Did Jumo-engined 88:s have one? I know Bf 110:s had, but to at least to my non-professional eyes the Ju 88 exhausts look quite symmetrical. V-P The asymmetric exhausts thing was just this, in fact on the port side there seem to be only five exits, one of the engine exhaust stubs *seems* to be ducted somewhere else? I sprayed two coats of Klear, allowed dry overnight and then two more Left that a day and came onto the decals… Anyone wondering why I tend to paint markings and codes will now see the reason is that I really struggle with decals. I tend to use Humbrol Decalfix, but it is pretty hot and tends to soften decals a lot. I managed to get Eduard decals on to a 109e by using pure Decalfix (no dipping in water - straight in Decalfix) by golly they're soft going on. Unfortunately the Eagle Cals decals softened even more, and gave me difficulties, one broke up, and another lifted a day later, so any way I'm going to press on and mask out the missing bits later So I went on to the Revell decals, and wow there are a lot of them, but they went down ok - I did use water and then Decalfix over, but look very glossy, fortunately a coat of Vallejo matt varnish (mixed 1:1 with Vallejo thinners) fixes that So here we are, almost ready for more Klear, and then the distemper Of course, whilst doing this I've dislodged most of the control surfaces, these didn't seem to go on too well The two rear cockpit halves are glued together, but not yet glued to the main canopy, nor to the body I'm a bit confused about the rings holding the rear machine guns, every picture I have seen has the mgs coming out the bottom of the ring with the crescent window above, even the Revell painting diagram shows that, but the canopies definitely have the mgs in the upper quadrant facing inward. I've got a feeling that ring rotates, can anyone confirm? I also seem to have painted too much? It seems that the very first picture I posted is painted between the rings, but perhaps that is just frost? Thanks for watching 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterB Posted February 7, 2023 Share Posted February 7, 2023 (edited) On 2/3/2023 at 11:12 PM, stevesoutar said: I haven't seen those strange exhaust shrouds with the bendy pipe on any aircraft other than BF-110s - I assume the odd positioning of just one exhaust was also something to do with prop wash on the starboard side of the cockpit. Most night fighters had shrouds fitted to hide the dull red exhaust headers, and to hide any sparks and fuel backfires which would make them visible in the blackness - I have no idea why the Messerschmitt factory chose to pipe three exhausts above the wing, and not the forth one In all the photos of Ju-88s with Jumo powerplants they all seem to be identical - the inverted V engine puts 6 exhaust headers out each side of the engine bay below the level of the wing - unless they are fitted with the radial BMW 801 engines. You can identify the Jumo powerplants, because they always have that circular grill with engine & oil cooling radiators fitted in segments, and 6 exhaust stubs each side. (Daimler Benz DB601 & DB605 engines also had the same layout) In that photo you can see the bare exhaust stubs on the nearside of the starboard engine, with exhaust staining flowing backwards below the wing - but also clearly see a bunch of carbon build up on the port side of each engine drawn or pushed up by airflow above the wing. I hadn't really seen a good close-up of a Ju-88 upper wing with that much engine filth collected until this one - thats gonna be a reference photo for a future build for me 👍 I always thought that on the 110 night fighters it was to do with the position of the intake on the inboard side of the starboard engine getting in the way of the shrouds which caused three to go one way and one the other. Yes, the Jumos had different arrangements of exhausts on the left and right side of each cowling which some manufacturers like Hobbyboss have failed to notice. They also seem in some cases to have missed the fact that the front stack actually goes into the nose ring resulting in the bulged fairing seen on this kit. This is the right hand side and this the left Both engines are of course identical. Looks like something is plumbed in to the fifth stack on the left side! Pete Edited February 10, 2023 by PeterB 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nickhenfrey Posted February 7, 2023 Author Share Posted February 7, 2023 Thanks for the pix Pete, I was beginning to wonder if I'd got something wrong! Although I am now wondering about what I thought were seams on the stacks, can't see them on the real thing... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
modelling minion Posted February 7, 2023 Share Posted February 7, 2023 Very nice work, your Ju-88 is looking great and the white distemper will look really good. It does seem a bit wrong covering a perfectly good paint job but it turns out well in the end, I have done it on a couple of models and really like the results. 🇺🇦 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevesoutar Posted February 7, 2023 Share Posted February 7, 2023 13 hours ago, nickhenfrey said: I'm a bit confused about the rings holding the rear machine guns, every picture I have seen has the mgs coming out the bottom of the ring with the crescent window above, even the Revell painting diagram shows that, but the canopies definitely have the mgs in the upper quadrant facing inward. I've got a feeling that ring rotates, can anyone confirm? I also seem to have painted too much? It seems that the very first picture I posted is painted between the rings, but perhaps that is just frost? Thanks for watching Hi Nick, I am pretty sure those rings rotate left & right, allowing the guns to be slewed around. If you remember watching the 1969 film Battle of Britain (some of if filmed inside Spanish He-111's) I'm sure some scenes where the nose gunner was rotating the ring as he pulled the machine gun from side to side. And if I look at one of the Eduard PE sets it has a brass gun ring, with minute gear teeth etched into the edge of the ring, which backs up my understanding of how these worked - so in practice, the gun is not restricted to always being at the bottom of that ring - i'm sure the gun mounts rotate maybe 180 degrees, or maybe a bit less than that? I am less sure how we would replicate that on a kit though - delicate surgery on clear parts is fraught with potential disaster 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevesoutar Posted February 8, 2023 Share Posted February 8, 2023 I wonder if the 'missing' exhaust stack was routed into the wings, to act as a de-icing mechanism? I have noticed a similar conundrum on Mosquitos - we all know a Merlin engine is a V-12, and on Spitfires, Hurricanes, Mustangs etc we always see 6 exhaust stubs each side of the engine, but Mosquitos (real & kits) only have 5 exhausts showing. The only rational explanation I can think of is the 'missing' one is being vented off somewhere else. As icing up was always a problem at high altitude, I think this is an engineering trick to utilise some of the waste heat from the engines to keep the leading edges of the wings de-iced, or possibly to connect to a heat exchanger for the crew cabin (in the Ju-88) The Mossie cockpit had two huge radiators strapped next to the cockpit, so never needed a cabin heater - crews often couldn't wear sheepskin flying boots & jackets in a Mossie, because they got too hot 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nickhenfrey Posted February 8, 2023 Author Share Posted February 8, 2023 9 hours ago, stevesoutar said: Hi Nick, I am pretty sure those rings rotate left & right, allowing the guns to be slewed around. If you remember watching the 1969 film Battle of Britain (some of if filmed inside Spanish He-111's) I'm sure some scenes where the nose gunner was rotating the ring as he pulled the machine gun from side to side. Steve - thanks, yeah, that rings a bell, also I was remembering this picture which is what made me think this (but of course couldn't find it at the time!) I'm guessing the gears keep the machine gun itself from rotating while the rest rotates.... (oh, and that orientation is exactly what I've currently got) 9 hours ago, stevesoutar said: And if I look at one of the Eduard PE sets it has a brass gun ring, with minute gear teeth etched into the edge of the ring, which backs up my understanding of how these worked - so in practice, the gun is not restricted to always being at the bottom of that ring - i'm sure the gun mounts rotate maybe 180 degrees, or maybe a bit less than that? I am less sure how we would replicate that on a kit though - delicate surgery on clear parts is fraught with potential disaster well, I'm defo not going to try, I doubt you'd see it anyway, but I've answered my own question I have painted too much between the mgs - I *may* try and remove the excess.... 11 hours ago, modelling minion said: Very nice work, your Ju-88 is looking great and the white distemper will look really good. It does seem a bit wrong covering a perfectly good paint job but it turns out well in the end, I have done it on a couple of models and really like the results. Thanks! I was wondering if it was worth decalling(!) all those stencils, I'm aiming to leave quite a lot of glimpses of them, and maybe larger wear sections, particularly in the "nur hier betreten" areas... 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
modelling minion Posted February 8, 2023 Share Posted February 8, 2023 2 hours ago, nickhenfrey said: Thanks! I was wondering if it was worth decalling(!) all those stencils, I'm aiming to leave quite a lot of glimpses of them, and maybe larger wear sections, particularly in the "nur hier betreten" areas... I'm in the process of doing the decals on my build including all the stencils, a lot of which will then be covered by snow! 🇺🇦 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nickhenfrey Posted February 8, 2023 Author Share Posted February 8, 2023 8 hours ago, modelling minion said: a lot of which will then be covered by snow! I'd forgotten you're doing snow as well, perhaps they'd sweep the snow away from those all important stencil markings? Well, I have kleared, my remaning items are: Props, mostly done Air/dive brakes, cut out, one almost broken, not painted Bomb racks, not started Reattach control surfaces White distemper, could all go belly up Staining Exhaust black Wear of white paint Antenna and wire Repairing those pesky decals Yeah, I'm gonna need the extension.... 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterB Posted February 9, 2023 Share Posted February 9, 2023 (edited) On 2/7/2023 at 11:59 PM, stevesoutar said: Hi Nick, I am pretty sure those rings rotate left & right, allowing the guns to be slewed around. If you remember watching the 1969 film Battle of Britain (some of if filmed inside Spanish He-111's) I'm sure some scenes where the nose gunner was rotating the ring as he pulled the machine gun from side to side. And if I look at one of the Eduard PE sets it has a brass gun ring, with minute gear teeth etched into the edge of the ring, which backs up my understanding of how these worked - so in practice, the gun is not restricted to always being at the bottom of that ring - i'm sure the gun mounts rotate maybe 180 degrees, or maybe a bit less than that? I am less sure how we would replicate that on a kit though - delicate surgery on clear parts is fraught with potential disaster It's called a "Bola" mount - in the picture below it is technically a Bola 81 as it is for an MG81. And yes, I also realised how it worked when seeing a similar mounting in the nose of an "He III" in the Battle of Britain film - possibly the rather "gory" scene where a frontal attack results in blood all over the nose glazing! Somebody certainly did their homework for the film as they show the gunners firing short bursts instead of just blazing away! Pete Edited February 9, 2023 by PeterB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vppelt68 Posted February 9, 2023 Share Posted February 9, 2023 Nein, Pete, it's not a Bola- mount. "BoLa" comes from "BodenLafette", which refers to the ventral gondola. I have read that those round gun mounts were called "Lensenlafettes", but I'm not sure if these armoured ones were also called that. And that ends what I believe(d) I knew about Ju 88 gunmounts . V-P 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterB Posted February 10, 2023 Share Posted February 10, 2023 22 hours ago, vppelt68 said: Nein, Pete, it's not a Bola- mount. "BoLa" comes from "BodenLafette", which refers to the ventral gondola. I have read that those round gun mounts were called "Lensenlafettes", but I'm not sure if these armoured ones were also called that. And that ends what I believe(d) I knew about Ju 88 gunmounts . V-P I dare say you are right but the caption to this and several other pics says Bola and I had assumed, perhaps wrongly, that they knew what they were talking about - "dim problem" as they say here in Wales (No Problem"😆 Pete 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nickhenfrey Posted February 10, 2023 Author Share Posted February 10, 2023 well, thanks for that, moving swiftly on... 10/2 update 2 days to go (well 9 actually now…) To misquote Filch in Harry Potter… "well take a good look boys, this may be the last you see of…" …that green camouflage Bit of snow (well sodium carbonate I think in IPA) After a few thin coats of white A few more thin coats Then carbonate wiped off, decals revealed (canopy not yet painted balanced on) Well quite a bit more to touch up, and bits of nacelles to do, but quite happy so far…. 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterB Posted February 10, 2023 Share Posted February 10, 2023 That has come out very nicely Nick. Pete 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mick Posted February 10, 2023 Share Posted February 10, 2023 great work 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nickhenfrey Posted February 10, 2023 Author Share Posted February 10, 2023 6 minutes ago, PeterB said: That has come out very nicely Nick. 3 minutes ago, mick said: great work Thank you both! Looking at these pix I thought I may have overcooked the white, but looking back at the model there's quite a bit of variation, the flash has whitened up everything, I'll post some non-flash in the morning On 09/02/2023 at 18:17, PeterB said: It's called a "Bola" mount - in the picture below it is technically a Bola 81 as it is for an MG81. Pete, that picture is great Am I right in thinking my plane has the belt feed mgs with sight ring on that separate bracket, as opposed to the earlier drum feed mgs with the ring on the actual barrel? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterB Posted February 10, 2023 Share Posted February 10, 2023 Hi Nick, I was going to give you a link to a site called "Luftwaffe Resource Centre" which has some useful info on several subjects including guns but it seems the parent site has been suspended within the last couple of days. All I can tell you is that the early planes had MG15 which was drum fed - I mentioned the need to fire short bursts earlier - and had the sight on the end of the barrel whilst later ones had the belt fed MG81 with the sight as in the pic. According to Green, after the experience during the Battle of Britain with the A-1 and A-5 the MG15 were found to be unsatisfactory and the A-4 was fitted with the MG81 AFAIK! Pete 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nickhenfrey Posted February 11, 2023 Author Share Posted February 11, 2023 Just a few more pictures without flash in daylight this morning (the flash tends to whiten up everything): I deliberately aimed to get more cover on the panels than the panel lines. and I think that's a suitably subtle effect.... (the remaining specks of sodium carbonate are snow!!!) 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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