Endless Endeavour! a first time maritime model of HMS Wizard

[Ropuch Jr.]

Hello everyone! I am a new member and loved the healthy forum here so I simply had to join! 

 

i am going to build a model warship for the first time and wanted to document it as it will help me keep track and I spire to keep going but most importantly a reference for others to inspire.

 

 

I laugh and joke with my best buddy about how funny it was when we were 14 to smash out a model in a weekend. the results were simply terrible but we definitely had our fun whilst at it! over time one matures and takes a deeper intrest into the history of the models that peaked our modeling tastebuds. one also appreciates the time and effort put into models and is extremely rewarding when it is backed up with so thi g as rich as the history too. 

 

When I was young(er) I enjoyed being a part of the Marine Cadet Detachment of the Sea Cadet corps TS Wizard (training ship) in Wood Green. It was my first introduction to the Royal Navy and inevitably inspired a deeper into rest into the history of it and more broadly the navies it dealt with. with this I have decided to build a model of HMS Wizard as it would require some proper research and holds a little place in my heart as it was the catalist for my love of naval history and engineering. 

 

Please follow this thread to witnes my maiden voyage into maritime modeling. commentry, experiences, pro tips and contructive criticism is advocated here to better the experience

Edited November 14, 2022 by Ropuch Jr.
typo

[Faraway]

As you’ve not mentioned any kit producer, I’m guessing you are going to scratch build ?

 

[ArnoldAmbrose]

Gidday, welcome aboard. I'm keen to see what the vessel looked like.

 

2 hours ago, Ropuch Jr. said:

smash out a model in a weekend.

Sometimes just a couple of hours. And yeah, it looked somewhat errr rough.       Regards, Jeff.

[Ropuch Jr.]

EARLY PREP AND RESEARCH

 

HMS Wizard wasn't a ship that stuck out of the crowed so models of it does not exist, however after buying British Destroyers 1939–45: Wartime-built classes (New Vanguard) I quickly learned that wizard was built as part of the 7th and 8th Emergency Flotilla (New W & Z class) . 

 

The Emergency Flotilla was a program where the war department would build ships fast using existing designs, weapons and propulsion systems in order to beef up the Navy because they had a large area of the globe to cover now that France was out of the picture and losses in the Atlantic was enough to warrant concern with numbers. simply put, most ships built under the emergency flotilla program would be extremely similar to eachother. 

 

So I looked online to find anything from the EF, the closer to the W class the better. Almost immediately I came across 2 classes that would satisfy the criteria and they were both from Atlantic Models! The first was HMS Scorpion and HMS Vigilant, although the Hull and superstructure of Scorpion and Vigilant are extremely similar, I learnt that the weapon systems from Vigilant were match to that of Wizard (its really a coin toss atm). This would help decrease the cost of looking out for more bits and pieces online. 

 

The order came through the post last week. I will talk about this soon. 

 

Edited December 11, 2022 by Ropuch Jr.
aesthetics

[Ropuch Jr.]

21 hours ago, Faraway said:

As you’ve not mentioned any kit producer, I’m guessing you are going to scratch build ?

 

I have selected an Atlantic Models 1:350 Resin

[Faraway]

6 minutes ago, Ropuch Jr. said:

I have selected an Atlantic Models 1:350 Resin

Excellent choice of supplier, very good kits.

Jon

[Ropuch Jr.]

I would like to try scratch building.  I think I will have to do it at some point as it's inevitable when something is not online and have to make do with prior experience.

1 hour ago, Faraway said:

Excellent choice of supplier, very good kits.

Jon

 

[Ropuch Jr.]

DEEPER DIVE

 

We will be looking at the model, comparing it to photos of HMS Wizard and selecting paint colours. 

 

 

I recieved my parcel containg HMS Vigilant from Atlantic Models a few weeks ago and was very impressed with detail of it all, i have only found 1 general issue with the model but nothing some sanding can do. I like the resin weight and texture is good to with with, especially its rigidity makes sanding and handling much easier. Based on these opinions so far I think I would buy again if my next project leaned in that direction. 

 

The box came in fantastic condition with the model well packaged inside, please excuse my cats inability to find a proper sleeping quarter, she loves cardboard boxes and must always test each one for its utility. This time Vigilant was a back rest. 

 

Inside the box we have a set of instructions identifying and providing the names for all parts, diagrams and assembly instructions with notes, a full colour painting guide, resin hull and decks (split at the waterline), were bubble wrapped. The main superstructure, aft superstructure, guns and gun decks came in a baggie (also resin) with another one for cast white metal parts such as gun barrels, propeller and yardarms. The sweetest part was the completeness of the kit as it had a full brass photo etch too!

 

 

I now had to compare the two vessels and find out what else I need to order to help distinguish Wizard from the others. My first go to was to look online and fou d a few black and white images. I was blessed to come across this photo seller on ebay who had 4 photos of HMS Wizard before her 1952 conversion to a Type 15 frigate. 

 

I have left mateys water marks on so he can get the right kind of attention and credit. 

 

1. Coming into port

2. Taken form HMS Indifaticable 

3. dont know what's happening here, but i really appreciate the detals

4. Wizard (bottom) and Urchin (top) escorting Indifaticable into the North Sea. Probably to Kristinsund, Norway. 

 

This is the table I made using my book, the differences were the Sensors and AA armament layout. 

What's intresting to note is the ships have very similar layouts but with different weapon systems because the Emergency Flotilla programme demended that whatever was available had to be fitted. It clearly shows that Britain was clearly working on a Just in Time distribution method. This peak in intrest made me glance at the different flotilla numbers and Dock yards and it was all random with a few exceptions. In general terms the dockyards were given what Britain could supply, and the ships were fitted with whatever the dockyards had. At first this seems like a logistical nightmare working out what ship needs what ammo? I don't know if bofors and oerlikon have cross compatible ordinance, same with the pompoms etc?

 

Further more, i could see in the photos that Wizard had many ready boxes and vents etc, chain railings instead of sheet metal around B turret and other minor things. This is exactly the type of detail wanted to find with these photos, otherwise I am building Vigilant and calling it Wizard. 

I ordered some ready boxes and nick na ks like that from starling models. they came through the post the other day.

Question: what is your opinion on micro master? are they worth the price? what is the quality of detail in the final product compared to the super detail in the computer images on their online store? 

I want to increase the detail of the of my 25' motor cutter, the resin one is great but isn't hollow under the canopy. 25' motor cutter

 

 

Although the kit came with a coloured painting guide i really wanted to her with my own eyes as much as I could, otherwise it's just another weekend quick fix... and that's not why we're here. 

The biggest crux for me, as my buddy would definitely know, was select g the right colours, especially the greys! 

I started to look at what people have posted on forums and the likes to find paint colour numbers and codes. painting with airbrush for the first time i wanted everything to go just right. I found a few intresting paints, vallejo model air, to be specific but the chart I found wasn't for air brush. so looking for conversion tables etc was a bit of a rough time. 

The best part of this struggle was comming across the short and snyder colours and that colourcoats have done all the hard work by comparing the original paint chips and formulated their own.

selecting the line for '43-'45

Wow simply wow, i love the Internet 😂.

I learned a lot about how the RN use light reflectance value to select the shade and colour for the colour scheme. The simple grey/blue colours are for camouflage, at the distance they should blend in to the horizon/background. 

BUT it's winter and I don't live in a house with a spare room for all of this and enamel paint would simply take FOREVER to dry and it would probably make the cat feel abit woozy... and we don't want that! 

After all that I did the good old unreliable colour test on my pc screen and halved two windows side by side, zoomed all the way in and got the S&S on one side edging onto the middle line of the tow halves and put it againt the model air colour chart 🙃 I'm as professional as they get! with pinpoint accuracy I couldn't make my mind up and bought 4 greys to make sure that eventually i am accurate 🌚

 

 

[Faraway]

13 minutes ago, Ropuch Jr. said:

Question: what is your opinion on micro master? are they worth the price? what is the quality of detail in the final product compared to the super detail in the computer images on their online store? 

Micro master are superb, definitely worth the money and what you see on the website is what you get. The only draw back is the time the parcel take to get to the UK.

It might be worth you looking at Black Cat as well.

https://blackcatmodels.eu/en/

 

Also, Colourcoats are excellent, especially for spraying. They cover well and dry fast and are the most accurate for colour shades. If you are going to use them, don’t forget to order some thinners.

Jon

 

[robgizlu]

Hi - I wouldn't trust the S&S chart - I still have models that they bid me paint with "G45" which was sold as a fawn colour 

If you want accuracy - stick by your original leaning and go for Colourcoats.  If you use their thinners - the odour is negligble and they dry nearly as fast as acrylics.  I really like Vallejo Model Air and used to use them for AFVs.  Sadly their colour accuracy is far from perfect, and yes I know - fading etc etc - different shades applied in shipyards etc etc but with nearly ALL of the MA range in my collection I'd struggle to find colours sympathetic to RN subjects

 

Take the plunge - invest in Colourcoats - keep your Vallejo paints for AFVs and detailing.

As to Micromaster - check out the builds on this site that use their products and make your own decision, the detail is astonishing and the same goes for Black Cat.  Together they have transformed what can be acheived in 1/350 scale

Looks a great project and build

Rob

[Jamie @ Sovereign Hobbies]

On 11/16/2022 at 4:40 PM, Ropuch Jr. said:

 

selecting the line for '43-'45

Wow simply wow, i love the Internet 😂.

 

Hi, I'm glad the information is of some interest. It could be a mis-click somewhere but worth addressing just in case there's a later foul-up which could be easily avoided!

 

The snip you've posted there above is the 1941-1943 "MS&B" standard camouflage colour series. The colours MS1, MS2, MS3 etc were standardised in 1941 and superseded in 1943. The 1943-1945 set is a bit shorter with G5, G10, B15, G20 etc on it.

 

Good luck with the model

[Bertie McBoatface]

Welcome to the forum!

[Ropuch Jr.]

On 16/11/2022 at 17:06, robgizlu said:

If you use their thinners - the odour is negligble and they dry nearly as fast as acrylics.

Thank you, this has helped tip the scales, i will also like to compare the two to satisfy my curiosity. 

 

one me question, what varnish is best to use? also when? 

[Faraway]

5 minutes ago, Ropuch Jr. said:

one me question, what varnish is best to use? also when? 

What for ?

Jon

[robgizlu]

2 hours ago, Ropuch Jr. said:

Thank you, this has helped tip the scales, i will also like to compare the two to satisfy my curiosity. 

 

one me question, what varnish is best to use? also when? 

Hi Ropuch - If you weather with any oils or enamel products (washes panel liner etc) then it's necessary to spray the "Colourcoats" with an acrylic sealing layer (varnish) beforehand OR you risk the oil/enamel products "lifting" the Colourcoats paint.  (Actually you need to scrub hard to really do this but...).  I personally use Klear (acrylic floor polish) which sprays beautifully undiluted.  It's been rebadged so now appears under a different label (?Pledge. Future - search the forums - there'll be a few threads signposting you).  Vallejo gloss or satin varnish will do the same and also allows you to lay decals if needs at this stage.  

Personally I use oils for weathering - check my WIPs for details which then tend to matte the surface and I hardly EVER actually varnish the finished model after.   

I suspect that when people think of enamel paints they immediately associate them with high gloss finishes.  Not so with Colourcoats that dry to a dull sheen - though the actual colours and finishes vary.  I thin the paints 50 : 50 though the paint thickness from the pot does vary - you aim for that old maxim "consistency of milk".  If there's any doubt thin more.  Spray in light coats and depending on coats - you can handle within 3-4 hours if you are careful.  Clearly the longer you wait the better the paint will set.

A pleasant surprise is that you use "Hairspray" technique with Colorcoats and I've used white spirit (very carefully) to lift and water works as well.  

I spray at 15-20psi, as I said above - smell is negligble, I spray at a desk without extraction and you can acheive very fine detail in the spray, I try to avoid using brushes now as much as possible.  The other benefit is that it is FAR easier to clean the airbrush - I normally use Low odour white spirit and every so often "Sprayaway" (which does smell) through the brush spraying the excess into an old plastic icecream tub full of cat litter.  I spend far longer cleaning my brush with Vallejo or other acrylics and end up using far more Sprayaway!

FWIW - I bought some old fashioned brown glass "Dropper bottles" from Ebay for a couple of pounds and decant the thinner into the paint in little plastic cups that we got from using Braun thermometer "caps" (my old job).

Like you - I was sceptical about enamels before actually using them!  I reluctantly use acrylics now only when there are no enamel alternatives and then I brace myself for airbrush clogging and wiping the needle every 30 secs 

Convert - Yes!

Here endeth - good luck - looking forwards to seeing this build

Rob

[Ropuch Jr.]

21 hours ago, Faraway said:

What for ?

to preserve the paint/protect the work. also when, as in, varnish before decals? after, never, always  robgizlu established that before decals and weathering

 

@robgizlu thank you, this is top notch!

 

@Jamie @ Sovereign Hobbies thank you, ive just ordered from SH. should be good matches. there wasn't any thinners there but found some other elsewhere...

 

 

[Faraway]

If applying decals to Matt paint, a coat of gloss varnish just where the decals are to be. This should 🤞stop silvering, then a coat of Matt varnish once the decals are dry.
 

I’ve never varnished over an entire model.

 

Some form of decal fix/softener is worth have, just in case the surface isn’t flat.

Jon

 

 

[Jamie @ Sovereign Hobbies]

I don't bother with gloss varnishes before decals any more - I just buff the paint slightly with an Infini polishing sponge. My laziness always finds a faster way...

[ArnoldAmbrose]

8 hours ago, Jamie @ Sovereign Hobbies said:

My laziness always finds a faster way...

I'd call that an increase in efficiency. 🙂       Regards, Jeff.

[Ropuch Jr.]

LAYING DOWN THE HULL

 

The overall detail and quality of the resin kit is very nice and I am satisfied with my purchase.

 

I have chosen to display HMS Wizard in her 1945 configuration, with hull on a stand. It would be nice to do a diorama waterline display. It would be too much for me to do and too many firsts to handle. 

I will make my own stans and have the ship sit on a set of blocks. To make sure it doesn't slide off the blocks i will hide magnets inside two of the blocks and inside the ship. 

 

the two main halves

 

closeup of the forecastle 

 

For the magnets, they will be placed centre and deep enough to keep the mass low and not too heavy. I decide to position them in line with the ends of the bilge keels. 

 

Then I used my router (im a carpenter) to trim holes to the right depth (4 magnets deep) so that when the top half of the ship joins with the bottom of the hull the magnets don't get in the way. the magnets all couldn't fit in the bottom so I had to trim to top too

this can also be achieved with a dremel, I used what i had to hand. 

 

magnets inside sitting loose to see it all fits well

which it does

 

so i glued the. in with CA glue, some toothpicks wedged inside is case they come loose or to some effect like that. I have an activating spray which fast dries the CA glue. Still takes 24hrs to fully cure

 

Now to glue the two halves together. I prepped the surfaces sanding smooth with water to keep the dust from getting airborne and clogging the [nail]file. There was a little guiding stump at the stern of the ship and I got rid of that because we didn't get along very well. Regards to the model it was very well made, the edges just needed a light sand and that was it really, the lines were dead flat and no gaps, although I found the after starboard side was out of line and forecastle port side too was a little off. nothing for me to worry about for now. 

 

I have mixed CA with talcum powder, about 3:2 ratio respectively, and smeared the flat edges on one half and put the two together tightly wrapping them in masking tape to make sure there are no gaps. I wiped as much excess glue off as possible with nail varnish remover before spraying the CA activator. 

 

I sanded the seam and evened out the models imperfections fore and aft, and proceeded to prime coad it and rub down again to fill small gaps and expose any more sanding duties. 

masts for hadeling during painting

 

aft most imperfection revealing itself

 

good example of filling small cracks and scratches

 

that's it for now. 

 

are there specific primers for resin or are most likely to work well? I have vallejo primer and intend to use it unless otherwise recommended by you guys. 

 

While I wait for paint to arrive I will prep superstructures and bits what I will glue on before I paint it in G45 paint and antifouling for the Hull. How thick should the plimsoll line be? 

Edited December 11, 2022 by Ropuch Jr.
lack of title

[Jamie @ Sovereign Hobbies]

For resin kits my favourite primers are simple solvent based aerosols such as Halfords grey primer. 

[Faraway]

1 hour ago, Jamie @ Sovereign Hobbies said:

For resin kits my favourite primers are simple solvent based aerosols such as Halfords grey primer. 

I get good paint to resin adhesion with your paints regardless whether I prime the part or not. Sometimes the moulded detail is too fine to tolerate primer.

Jon

[Ropuch Jr.]

16 hours ago, Jamie @ Sovereign Hobbies said:

For resin kits my favourite primers are simple solvent based aerosols such as Halfords grey primer. 

@Jamie @ Sovereign Hobbies do you rub it down a little? when i was replacing my broken wing mirror cover, I used the primer and didn't like the finish before the gloss coat because it was grainy and wouldn't leave a smooth surface for the gloss spray. 

[Jamie @ Sovereign Hobbies]

4 minutes ago, Ropuch Jr. said:

@Jamie @ Sovereign Hobbies do you rub it down a little? when i was replacing my broken wing mirror cover, I used the primer and didn't like the finish before the gloss coat because it was grainy and wouldn't leave a smooth surface for the gloss spray. 

 

Yeah I often buff paints back a little using Infini 2500 and 400 grit sponges.

[socjo1]

20 hours ago, Ropuch Jr. said:

 

are there specific primers for resin or are most likely to work well? I have vallejo primer and intend to use it unless otherwise recommended by you guys. 

 

 

Hi, I will watch your topic, is very interesting. 

I don't recommend Mr. Surfacer. I had lot of problems with peeling when I tried to do hulls plates on my Starling Model's HMS Jed:

 

I achieved better results with Alclad's primer, it was much better adhesive:

 

Have a good fun with your model!

Best regards, 

Michal.