Can you recommend aftermarket to a ship build newbie?

[JohnT]

After a lifetime of aircraft modelling I've had inspiration from a brain burp after reading too many books on Jutland, Battlecruisers, Operation Rhine and the history of HMS Rodney to want to build a few ship models.  Besides I was told ship modelling is more grown up than planes   Anyway I think some of my plastic hacking of larger scale aircraft might come in useful and I know where to get kit reviews etc.    I also know that for paint I cant go much wrong than to go to Sovereign and get them from @Jamie @ Sovereign Hobbies.  Paints for HMS Hood already arrived thank you Jamie !

 

Where I am at totally at sea - please excuse dreadful pun - is in aftermarket.  There is a bewildering array of etch, wooden decks and metal gun barrels from different manufacturers and at different prices.  Can I beg some advice form those have have used this stuff before please?  

 

I have acquired Trumpeters 1/350 HMS Hood and Revell's 1/350 Bismarck.  What is good and worthwhile and what is perhaps just a waste of money?  Is there anywhere I can get AM products reviews?  What wooden decks, gun barrels and etch might one recommend?  From what I've read so far White Ensign Models stuff is good but did that move across the Atlantic?  And from all the wooden deck sets offered from China is there one that's better than the others and not a nightmare to use?

 

As always any advice and pointers are most gratefully received - especially as when it comes to ship modelling all I can recall is having a 1/600 Airfix Bismarck made for me as an eight year old by an uncle and an Airfix Cossack and Hotspur made by me.  If you looked carefully you could tell which was which under the layers of Britfix glue.

 

Thanks for any help

 

John

 

  

[europapete]

Hi John, Pete in RI here. For small details, go to Micro Master in New Zealand. For complete ship detail sets, look at Pontos, Lion Roar, Eduard, and Mk1. Jamie sells a lot of these sets, so check out his website. Yes, you are correct, Soveriegn is THE place to go for paint. I just wish it was more readily available here in the States, as the two distributors over here are permantly out of stock. Look at Scaledecks for wood decks.  Ship websites that are good include here of course, Ships of Scale, Model Ship World and Model Warships.Com. Hope this helps.

Edited November 13, 2022 by europapete

[europapete]

For your HMS Hood, the best two refrences are On The Slipway and the HMS Hood Association website. 

[dnl42]

In addition to the above, Master have excellent brass barrels. Black Cat Models and Niko Models have excellent kits and resin accessories. Also RESIN2detail have excellent accessories for ships and aircraft. I'm anxiously awaiting a 1/350 Rudderow or Butler DE from Black Cat. Well, and a 1/350 LST 542-class from AFV.

Colourcoats are indeed nearly impossible to obtain in the US; I still rely on WEM-produced tins.

 

If you do need to go international for parts, I highly recommend BNA Model World in Australia!

[europapete]

I will second BNA, excellent supplier.

[Rich75]

Hi there  I would also say, check  North star models, scaledecks, Eduard and Pontos,  mk1 design  make some great sets of watertight doors, scuttles masts etc, there's a lot to ship models and it's quite easy to look at the big things especially guns! The little details like doors, hatches, vents, search and signal lights etc really make a difference and you don't have to pay a fortune for those, master barrels are really nice, micromasters..Well you could go to town there! BNA is a good shout, I got an Artwox wooden deck from them, the detail is amazing, and check out some of the builds on here and you notice a lot of people seem to use the same products, word of mouth I guess, look forward to seeing your builds underway!!

[JohnT]

To @europapete @dnl42 and @Rich75 my deepest thanks for pointing me in the right direction.  Its a new world there and certainly out of my comfort zone.  Indeed I might wait until that GB start next year.  It will give me time to read and find out what "scuttles" are @Rich75  and I've found the HMS Hood Association website thanks @europapete

[europapete]

Glad to help. 

[Chewbacca]

On 15/11/2022 at 17:04, JohnT said:

Indeed I might wait until that GB start next year. 

You might not want to wait that long if you need anything that is not available in UK.  My experience of trying to order wooden decks from China was that delivery time were being quoted as 4-6 months.  Now I'm sure that that was a couple of isolated cases, but it's worth researching first to make sure that you can get what you need.  And there speaks the person who hasn't even decided what to do for the SSD GB!

[JohnT]

3 minutes ago, Chewbacca said:

You might not want to wait that long if you need anything that is not available in UK.  My experience of trying to order wooden decks from China was that delivery time were being quoted as 4-6 months.  Now I'm sure that that was a couple of isolated cases, but it's worth researching first to make sure that you can get what you need.  And there speaks the person who hasn't even decided what to do for the SSD GB!

Thanks @Chewbacca  that’s really useful info and advice. And a great excuse to get buying now too 

[ArnoldAmbrose]

On 11/16/2022 at 1:04 AM, JohnT said:

It will give me time to read and find out what "scuttles" are

Gidday John, you probably know by now, they're those round windows in ships. In civilian ships they're port holes, in naval vessels they're called scuttles AFAIK. Regards, Jeff.

[JohnT]

39 minutes ago, ArnoldAmbrose said:

Gidday John, you probably know by now, they're those round windows in ships. In civilian ships they're port holes, in naval vessels they're called scuttles AFAIK. Regards, Jeff.

Nope. I thought they were still portholes so thanks for putting me right. Every day learning something new  and there’s a lot to learn too !  Very much obliged. This ship thing is a whole new world. I read through the Warspite grounding thread on here a was gobsmacked at the depth of our nautical members knowledge (pun or originally intended but left in)

[ArnoldAmbrose]

21 minutes ago, JohnT said:

was gobsmacked at the depth of our nautical members knowledge

Gidday again John, my knowledge on ships is just average, picked up over about 50 years of interest in warships, mainly WW1 & 2, although I did a stint in the Naval Reserve here many years ago.

Other members here are absolute gurus on the subject, some are ex navy themselves and there's probably not much they don't know.

Regards, Jeff.

[JohnT]

@ArnoldAmbrose  I think its missed me out family generation wise.  Grandfather was a 16 year old telegraphist on HMS Barham at Jutland and my Dad was 4 years in RM Marines in the second round. I being baby boomer missed out on service and my Dad wasn't keen on it I think maybe after what he saw and did perhaps.  My 16 year old (subject of a late marriage) desperately wants to fly in the Navy but is being told by RN recruitment that while he ticks all the boxes RN has no foreseeable pilot vacancies for several years to come and he would be better try something else.  They have all the fast jet pilots they are going to need and a long waiting list already for any vacancies it seems so any vacancies are going to be from retirees or dead mans shoes.  I have suggested if its jets he wants then maybe try RAF to see if they have more spaces to fill.

[ArnoldAmbrose]

13 minutes ago, JohnT said:

I have suggested if its jets he wants then maybe try RAF to see if they have more spaces to fill.

       I have no idea about what would be involved in getting to fly Navy jets, I was a seaman gunner in the RANR but I think the expression "get a foot in the door" has merit. If he does get into the RAF and gains some experience it might help in transferring if there becomes a vacancy in the RN. Alternatively another branch of the RN might help. Others (including recruiting) would have a better idea of what to do I'd imagine.

       It must have been an exciting time for your Grandfather, as a 16 year old in the greatest naval battle of the war. I'm glad he wasn't on the ship in 1941.

Regards, Jeff.

[JohnT]

10 minutes ago, ArnoldAmbrose said:

       

       It must have been an exciting time for your Grandfather, as a 16 year old in the greatest naval battle of the war. I'm glad he wasn't on the ship in 1941.

Regards, Jeff.

 

Jeff

RN recruiters are saying he has potential and they are interested but not for fast jets.  Like you said they suggest foot in door as a deck/ weapons officer and see what comes along later.

 

"exciting" isn't the word.  At one point he got told by an officer to do something - quite what is lost in time - and that meant going to another part of the ship and coming back.  While he was away his station took a direct hit.  If you look at HMS Barham Jutland casualty lists you will see a number of boy telegraphists killed.  He served on Malaya later.  Hell of a film when Barham blew up in 41.  Just awful. Malaya was a luckier ship that way.  

[ArnoldAmbrose]

45 minutes ago, JohnT said:

While he was away his station took a direct hit.

A lucky lad it seems. Regards, Jeff.

[Chewbacca]

John,

 

I'm both a former naval aviator and Head of Operations at Naval Recruiting so I've seen it from both sides of the fence.

 

I fully accept that I left the Navy nearly 10 years ago and things have moved on but I am surprised to hear them say there are no vacancies in the Pilot Flying Training Pipeline for the foreseeable future.  I know that since F35 came in, the number of people applying to become Pilots has gone up but I'd be surprised if they have several years waiting.  Please remember that you don't join the Navy to fly jets.  You join the Navy to fly; what you are streamed depends upon the student pilot's ability as he/she progresses through training and how the gains to the trained strength are at the time.  By way of example, when I was at Naval Recruiting, we had two strong Pilot candidates fail quite early on Basic Flying Training, so we could see that there would be a hole moving forward.  At the time, we had two Observers who had just completed 750 Squadron and were outstanding in mental capacity - the single biggest discriminator in those days between Harrier or rotary wing streaming.  And so we asked them if they'd like to restream FJ Pilot.  The proviso was that if they made it through to graduation on Harrier that was fine but if they failed at any point they would not be restreamed rotary but would return to Observer training.

 

I would strongly counsel to not join the RAF if your son wants to join the Fleet Air Arm.  My experience is that they make life as difficult as possible and will put up as many barriers as possible to stop that.  If all he wants to do is fly, then the RAF can obviously offer more opportunities than the FAA because they have more aircraft and more aircraft types, but only a small percentage stream fast jets.

 

One option that he could discuss with his ACLO is whether the route that I took is still open to him.  I joined as a Warfare Officer and spent the first four years of my career driving warships around before specialising in aviation.  I have a feeling, however, that that option has recently been closed.  The other thing I would suggest is to get him to consider Observer.  It doesn't have the "Maverick" cachet to it but without the Observer, a Merlin or Wildcat is just a few tons of metal that can fly from A to B and not do anything en-route.  It's the Observer who turns the platform into a world-class fighting machine.

[JohnT]

On 04/12/2022 at 17:36, Chewbacca said:

John,

 

I'm both a former naval aviator and Head of Operations at Naval Recruiting so I've seen it from both sides of the fence.

 

I fully accept that I left the Navy nearly 10 years ago and things have moved on but I am surprised to hear them say there are no vacancies in the Pilot Flying Training Pipeline for the foreseeable future.  I know that since F35 came in, the number of people applying to become Pilots has gone up but I'd be surprised if they have several years waiting.  Please remember that you don't join the Navy to fly jets.  You join the Navy to fly; what you are streamed depends upon the student pilot's ability as he/she progresses through training and how the gains to the trained strength are at the time.  By way of example, when I was at Naval Recruiting, we had two strong Pilot candidates fail quite early on Basic Flying Training, so we could see that there would be a hole moving forward.  At the time, we had two Observers who had just completed 750 Squadron and were outstanding in mental capacity - the single biggest discriminator in those days between Harrier or rotary wing streaming.  And so we asked them if they'd like to restream FJ Pilot.  The proviso was that if they made it through to graduation on Harrier that was fine but if they failed at any point they would not be restreamed rotary but would return to Observer training.

 

I would strongly counsel to not join the RAF if your son wants to join the Fleet Air Arm.  My experience is that they make life as difficult as possible and will put up as many barriers as possible to stop that.  If all he wants to do is fly, then the RAF can obviously offer more opportunities than the FAA because they have more aircraft and more aircraft types, but only a small percentage stream fast jets.

 

One option that he could discuss with his ACLO is whether the route that I took is still open to him.  I joined as a Warfare Officer and spent the first four years of my career driving warships around before specialising in aviation.  I have a feeling, however, that that option has recently been closed.  The other thing I would suggest is to get him to consider Observer.  It doesn't have the "Maverick" cachet to it but without the Observer, a Merlin or Wildcat is just a few tons of metal that can fly from A to B and not do anything en-route.  It's the Observer who turns the platform into a world-class fighting machine.

 

 

Thanks for that advice and apologies for the late response - we lost my father in law and the funeral was last week so what with supporting mother in law and work I've not had much time on here or anywhere come to that.  I will drop you a more fullsome PM !

[Rich75]

Sorry to hear your sad news, look after yourself and your family

[Chunk1724]

Sorry for your loss

 

Please take care

 

Tommy

[Zoran Srb]

On 13/11/2022 at 12:54, JohnT said:

I have acquired Trumpeters 1/350 HMS Hood and Revell's 1/350 Bismarck.  What is good and worthwhile and what is perhaps just a waste of money?  Is there anywhere I can get AM products reviews?  What wooden decks, gun barrels and etch might one recommend?  From what I've read so far White Ensign Models stuff is good but did that move across the Atlantic?  And from all the wooden deck sets offered from China is there one that's better than the others and not a nightmare to use?

 

As always any advice and pointers are most gratefully received - especially as when it comes to ship modelling all I can recall is having a 1/600 Airfix Bismarck made for me as an eight year old by an uncle and an Airfix Cossack and Hotspur made by me.  If you looked carefully you could tell which was which under the layers of Britfix glue.

 

Thanks for any help

 

John

 

  

If I may, is ANY set worth it, it's completely up to you.  Best sets (for me personally), for 1/350 HMS Hood are Flyhawk detail, and second correction set. For 1/350 Bismarck, without question Pontos set. But I must warn you, both are deep rabbit holes.... You have to decide how deep you want to go...

Unfortunately Flyhawk doesn't provide detail review, but for Pontos: http://pontosmodel.com/html/35022f1.html

Regardless what you will use I'll recommend Black cat 3D print AA, and other small bits (boats, rafts, etc..)  https://blackcatmodels.eu/en/ . On average single, for example 20mm Oerlikon,  from sets is made from 10 etched, and turned brass parts, and you get it as whole from 3D print. And they look good. But fare warning they MUST BE HANDLED WITH CARE, since they are extremely brittle.

My primary source for acquiring are Hobbyeasy, and Luckymodel (for Pontos sets).  https://www.hobbyeasy.com/

https://www.luckymodel.com/

Hope it helps.

Edited January 8, 2023 by Zoran Srb

[JohnT]

36 minutes ago, Zoran Srb said:

If I may, is ANY set worth it, it's completely up to you.  Best sets (for me personally), for 1/350 HMS Hood are Flyhawk detail, and second correction set. For 1/350 Bismarck, without question Pontos set. But I must warn you, both are deep rabbit holes.... You have to decide how deep you want to go...

Unfortunately Flyhawk doesn't provide detail review, but for Pontos: http://pontosmodel.com/html/35022f1.html

Regardless what you will use I'll recommend Black cat 3D print AA, and other small bits (boats, rafts, etc..)  https://blackcatmodels.eu/en/ . On average single, for example 20mm Oerlikon,  from sets is made from 10 etched, and turned brass parts, and you get it as whole from 3D print. And they look good. But fare warning they MUST BE HANDLED WITH CARE, since they are extremely brittle.

My primary source for acquiring are Hobbyeasy, and Luckymodel (for Pontos sets).  https://www.hobbyeasy.com/

https://www.luckymodel.com/

Hope it helps.

 

 

Thank you @Zoran Srb  - like the other guys advice I really appreciate this as a nautical newbie.  Aircraft I know but floaty things are a whole new experience.  As for rabbit holes I've gone down a few aviation ones in my time and realise that the more you read up the more questions you have to answer.  I found the discussion on the colour of HMS Hood anti fouling paint more than interesting.  My 10 year old self built her from the Airfix 1/600 set using mostly the closest aviation paints I had at the time so she sat on the shelf with bright Post Office van red undersides.  To my 10 year old self it looked great    Live and Learn !

[Toms Modelworks]

As one of those US distributors, I would like to clarify about Colourcoats paints. We have stock of nearly all ship colors and a growing number of aircraft colors. These are available on the WEM website. There are a few that we are out of, notably US10 20-B Deck Blue but we just placed an order with Sovereign Hobbies so that will be rectified shortly.

[europapete]

Awesome! good to know that you have them. Will get a list together, Regards, Pete in RI