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PRU pink Spitfire IX FR, 16 Squadron, RAF COMPLETE

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Winded Penguin Very Obsessed Member

Winded Penguin

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Thought I'd better get a new thread going on my next 'What If' PRU pink Spitfire project.

This is where the discussion is already headed on the current Ready for Inspection PRU blue Spitfire decoy thread.

 

The basis for this particular 'What If' is another 1/32 scale Revell Spitfire IX.

 

Not getting ahead of myself, the presumption of the 2 PRU Blue Spitfire decoy projects I've completed so far was based on the 'What If' scenario on this thread.

 

However, with the PRU pink project its clear - based on feedback here  - that a few IXs were indeed for real running around with standard armament in a low level PRU role.

 

So I just need to do more research to understand if this was just a standard IX with cameras fitted and no other mods, i.e in a FR designation. 

If so, I guess I can drill some round holes and install smoked glass into the Revell kit. That kind of mod is within my existing capabilities.

 

On the other hand, if mods would reward extensive carving and sanding skills, it's probably not for me at this stage, and I'd happily go back to looking at a fantasy 'What If' project.

 

EDIT: TITLE CHANGE. THIS PROJECT WILL NO LONGER BE A 'WHAT IF' PROJECT.  IT IS A 16 SQUADRON RAF SPITFIRE IX FR, JULY 1944, BAYEAUX, FRANCE

Edited by Winded Penguin
Change of emphasis due to research
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Col Walter E Kurtz Very Obsessed Member

Col Walter E Kurtz

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35 minutes ago, Winded Penguin said:

If so, I guess I can drill some round holes and install smoked glass into the Revell kit. That kind of mod is within my existing capabilities.

I'll tag along on this one if i may? 

 

I think maybe go for a drill and smoked glass.. how about smoking the glass from the inside using Pencil lead? 

Andy

 

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Winded Penguin Very Obsessed Member

Winded Penguin

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12 minutes ago, Col Walter E Kurtz said:

I'll tag along on this one if i may? 

 

I think maybe go for a drill and smoked glass.. how about smoking the glass from the inside using Pencil lead? 

Andy

 

Andy you're a genius 😄 Thankyou

 

Edit: and welcome, please pull up the most comfy seat

Edited by Winded Penguin
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Winded Penguin Very Obsessed Member

Winded Penguin

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This quite recent thread on Britmodeller about RAF PRU pink was kindly flagged up to me by @Biggles87 and @spitfire 

 

Having quickly glanced through all 4 pages of that thread, I'd summarise the discussion as this... in real life PRU pink would be:

  • One part red to 40 parts white

 In model world that just looks like white? If so to achieve the same effect it needs to be:

  • One part red to 30 parts white

If so, then I'll probably trial a couple of off the shelf PRU pink colours against what I can achieve home made with the 1:30 and 1:40 ratio plus different pre-shading (black or grey anyone?) and see what we get bearing in mind it will be for 1/32 scale

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Col Walter E Kurtz Very Obsessed Member

Col Walter E Kurtz

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24 minutes ago, Winded Penguin said:

Andy you're a genius

Thank you! Hahaha usually i get reffered to as much less complimentary than this!

It's a very simple trick i've used before on RAF navigation and USAAF  recognition lights where you have a clear panel/clear fairing to install.  Like below but this was using Sharpie coloured pens  not pencil lead..

 

IMG_0720

 

Edited by Col Walter E Kurtz
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Winded Penguin Very Obsessed Member

Winded Penguin

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OK, quick progress on the research. Thank you 👍 @spitfire who highlighted to me this link from which I quote: 

 

"FR Mk IX

The most heavily armed reconnaissance Spitfires were a small number of FR (Fighter Reconnaissance) Mk IXs.

These carried the standard guns of the Mk IX fighter, with one obliquely mounted F.24 camera and were used for low to medium level reconnaissance."

 

So I now have a specific model to focus my research on.

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Biggles87 Completely Obsessed Member

Biggles87

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I think my paint ratio for the PR 1G was about 1 to 40, I used almost a full pot of Humbrol white to a tiny amount of red.

If you are going for one of the FR IXs in the picture that Dennis supplied they were from 16 squadron and I might be able to help with a serial number and/or code from my Fighter Squadrons of the RAF book or other reference.

Get on with it then. 😜

 

John. 🇺🇦

 

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Winded Penguin Very Obsessed Member

Winded Penguin

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Source: https://www.digitalcombatsimulator.com/en/files/2318009/

 

"Spitfire FR Mk.IXc, No. 16 Sqn, RAF, based in Bayeux, France, 1944.
PRU pink Spitfires were used for recon missions at low altitudes.

This aircraft had a single camera shooting obliquely from the left side of the fuselage behind the cockpit"

 

@Biggles87 John, if the above source is correct, then I'd assume the single camera text refers to this arrangement below linking directly to their webpage?

spacer.png

 

In which case I'm happy to build this 'as is'. It looks awesome and because I feel a basic camera window mod is within my capabilities to execute.

 

Therefore, I'd like to take up your very kind offer regarding looking into code letters, or any other information you believe would be pertinent on RAF 16 Squadron IX FR machines, if it is in your references.

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Winded Penguin Very Obsessed Member

Winded Penguin

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1 hour ago, alt-92 said:

That's a DCS skin, but based on the famous pic of 16 Sqn in front of the camouflaged hangar:

 

3269411347_cb1aeac6a9_o.jpg

Thanks for that, and I did enjoy seeing the Spit 'What If' project featured in your signature thread posted on *1 April 2020. Very cool 😉

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  • Winded Penguin changed the title to PRU pink Spitfire IX FR, 16 Squadron, RAF
Winded Penguin Very Obsessed Member

Winded Penguin

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OK Some initial research using Wiki and UK National Archives Office for 16 Squadron RAF throws up some interesting details for anyone else thinking about doing a Spit IX FR build.

ML373, MK915, MK716, MK723, ML529, MK362 all show up on 16 Squadron records book entries.

Wiki says 

16 Squadron were at Blackbushe in Hampshire until April 1944, Then Northolt until at least 19 September 1944. I'll have to do more research but Wiki indicates 16 Squadron then used Celle near Hanover as their Advanced Landing Ground (ALG) base in mainland Europe.

 

EDIT: SO FAR NOTHING I'VE SEEN INDICATES 16 SQUADRON WERE EVER BASED IN BAYEUX, FRANCE

 

I'll be grateful for any further contributions or corrections on the above 👍

Edited by Winded Penguin
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Biggles87 Completely Obsessed Member

Biggles87

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OK, so who needs  ‘Fighter squadrons of the RAF’.

Glad you found the information you wanted.

 

John

PS: We used to live about 5km from Blackbushe which was owned by Doug Arnold when we moved there. He had quite a large collection of warbirds including at least one Spitfire.

 

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alt-92 Very Obsessed Member

alt-92

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3 hours ago, Winded Penguin said:

but Wiki indicates 16 Squadron then used Celle near Hanover as their Advanced Landing Ground (ALG) base in mainland Europe.

Hazarding a guess here : that's quite a gap in time between September 1944 and Spring 1945 (Celle not being captured until April 1945).
16 Sqn also used Melsbroek (B.58) near Brussels in late 1944.

 

https://www.iwm.org.uk/collections/item/object/205045119

 

Note the mention of the dummy chateau, and the camouflaged hangars (frequently used by the Germans - there's still a remnant at Volkel AB) of the sort in the picture posted earlier.

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Winded Penguin Very Obsessed Member

Winded Penguin

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On 11/12/2022 at 4:46 PM, alt-92 said:

Hazarding a guess here : that's quite a gap in time between September 1944 and Spring 1945 (Celle not being captured until April 1945).
16 Sqn also used Melsbroek (B.58) near Brussels in late 1944.

 

 

OK, this is entirely correct what you say, my bad.

 

So, more digging needed and bingo: I've since located the original written squadron monthly reports (on form type 540). On this form the squadron base is always listed. Looking at the original copy documents, this is where 16 squadron were located:

 

Northolt until 3 September 1944

Advanced Landing Ground A12 Lignerolles from 4 September 1944

Advanced Landing Ground B48 Amiens/Glissy from 9 September 1944

Advanced Landing Ground B58  Melsbroek from 29 September 1944 (On the same site as current Zaventem Brussels airport)

Advanced Landing Ground B78 Eindhoven from 16 April 1945 to the end of WW2 and beyond

 

I used to fly into Zaventem regularly in a former life, so it's a small world.

 

Edited by Winded Penguin
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Winded Penguin Very Obsessed Member

Winded Penguin

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3 hours ago, alt-92 said:

which is not too far from Bayeux, actually :D

 

👍 Thankyou. I was looking at another place called Lignerolles nearer Paris 

In the immediate aftermath close to and post the end of WW2...

 

Advanced Landing Ground B78 Eindhoven from 16 April 1945 

then on 17 Sept 1945 16 Squadron split into 3 flights all pilots (except CO) and aircraft remain in mainland Europe. Remainder of 16 Squadron assets begin transfer to Dunsfold:

 

Advanced Landing Ground B118 Celle Germany from 19 September 1945 to 1 April 1946 (source: Wikipedia)

Cambrai, Epinoy airfield (was this an ALG?) from 19 September 1945. My archive paper trail ends on 30 September 1945 (and I'm going to stop there).

Dunsfold, England from 22 September 1945. Flight disbands 19 October 1945.

 

I've gone and got carried away with the research for a project that started as a 'What If'. What the hell happened? 🙉

 

However, it would be great to have confirmation that any of the 16 squadron IX airframe serial numbers below are on record anywhere as having been PRU pink at some point?

ML373, MK915, MK716, MK723, ML529, MK362

 

EDIT: FOUND ONE https://allspitfirepilots.org/aircraft/MK716 operating out of Balleroy,/Lignerolles A12 (So between 4th and 8th September 1944)

 

Edited by Winded Penguin
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