Alfa Romeo 8 C 2300 - 1/12 - Italieri

[bosscat]

Hello all,

 

First, sorry for my english...

 

First build here for years. This time, firt build of a car for many decade after build 1/35 AFV and modern jet, some topics inspired me (Bengalensis especially) and cars of this era were crazy. MFH kits are awesome but I don't want spent lot of money if this type of model please not me. So, i've prefer buy this model by Italeri. 

I avoid to be redundant, refer to the presentation of the kit, I'ill introduce you the little history of the real car and my project.

 

 

 

1. History

 

Little history for a great car of very great renown that I will complete as the assembly progresses.

In 1931, Alfa Romeo introduced a new racing car powered by the 2300 (2.3 litre) 8C (eight cylinder) engine inline as was common practice at the time. It is supercharged by a compressor. He allowed the car to win many victories. The car was originally designed for two people – driver and mechanic – before racing rules eliminated the need for an on-board mechanic. It was very competitive on the track, but Alfa produced 188 of these cars, a few for the track, the rest for private roadsters. The 8C 2300 will power the Alfa Romeo drivers (private or part of the official alfa team led by Enzo Ferrari, the scuderia Ferrari using the alfas before creating its own racing cars in 1947.). It was used during the 1931-35 seasons before being upgraded to the 8C 2600 and 2900 engine for the following seasons but to equip the P3 and following.

 

 

2.kit

After History, the kit! This is a brand new kit that is offered by Italeri, it is not an updated antediluvian Protar kit re-release but a new 1/12 scale production. But it remains far from the usual standards. The kit has relatively good press for what the Italian manufacturer is used to doing and is made up of several different color clusters: two in red, three in silver, three in black, one chrome and one transparent with few parts for this very lightly bodied torpedo. This kit also includes a PE board, vinyl tubing, wire, a bag of small screws, and four rubber (vinyl) tires.

The kit seems quite detailed for what the brand usually offers although I must say that it has been decades since I had an italeri kit in my hands. And this is a first for a civilian kit. Nevertheless, I would see after research if there are a few modifications to be made. Not to mention the parts to be prepared, the quality of the molds is not at the top. Like the suspension, the engine is very nicely detailed and considering the scale, even though it is not a toy, some parts are movable, the most interesting being the various bonnet panels that can be unfolded to access the engine compartment. Very nice to see the details lovingly painted before, might as well enjoy it from time to time. Italeri supplies tubes to reproduce the wiring harness for the ignition as well as plumbing and various fittings. To see if it sticks to reality. I have the impression that the diameter of the elements provided in the kit seem a bit too big. There are even a few decimeters of wire to wrap around the exhaust pipe to avoid burning your hands when getting on or off the car.

 

The kit also offers masks for number 28, the nuvolari number at the 1933 Monaco GP.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The manual is also old-fashioned in design but also with the precision level of information that goes with it... but we don't have 2000 parts to assemble. I hope to get out of it anyway.

 

3. Project: what I plan to do

 

To conclude, why this kit? That theme there? Like I said before, it is still a first for me, I have assembled very few civilian cars and that was a very long time ago.  So the desire to build a nice kit of a car from that era and on a large scale has been tickling me for some time and the desire was even more given to me by watching the videos of Thomas' MHF kits (French model kit) . For a first step in this category, I didn't want to make the mistake of spending a lot of money on a kit from this high-end brand without knowing if I was going to like it. The italeri kit is therefore a good alternative and a good foot in the stirrup. To be confirmed during assembly, I will advise later.

Living next to Reims in France, there is the old Gueux car/motorcycle circuit which was used very early in the late 1920s to organize motor sports competitions, including Formula 1 later. Indeed, the Gueux circuit (10km from Reims) hosted the first F1 French GP in 1950 and saw Fangio's victory in an Alfa Romeo 158 there. Since then, society has changed, no more championships since the beginning of the 1970s, nature etc. has regained its rights, but an association has renovated very nicely the buildings that could be renovated to keep an imprint in history. I refer you to the wikipedia page which summarizes all this for you:

 

https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Circuit_de_Reims-Gueux

 

the association link:

 

https://amis-du-circuit-de-gueux.fr/

 

Already in the 1930s, the circuit was highly renowned and the big names of the time were already flocking to the circuit as part of the major events of the time. The Alfa 8C which interests us to evolve there often and over several years. I managed to find some info and pictures. To be a little original compared to the kit and what is being assembled on the Net (and based on the information available), I will make Nuvolari's car when he participated in the 8th GP de la Marne. He did not win the race because he retired following a problem on the rear axle. He still had the lap record at an average of 153km/h. The race lasted 2:45, sprint races were longer back then. The route was very fast, just a little slower than that of Spa in the 1930s. The route was already paved at the time and "relatively" wide, but the condition of the surface must have looked more like that of a very dusty gravel road. In the early 1930s, the route still passed through the Gueux circuit on partly cobbled streets!!! This was still the case at the start of F1.

 

A short video in which you can see dated photos of the vintage track as well as the first F1s in 1950.

 

 

 

In 1933, Nuvolari (in the works team led by Enzo Ferrari) used a chassis with the number 12 instead of his usual 28. And apparently no gold stripe running down the sides. I still have to search to see if I can find more photos but not easy, there are more photos of panzer 4 than competition cars at that time! Given the size of the model, I might put it in an individual showcase and why not a simple little diorama to showcase the car with a reminder of its place of evolution. I plan to present the car after the race, so quite dirty due to almost 3 hours of racing. So I should tackle a bit of a little weathering. 

 

I hope to be able to entertain you and inform you of the next stages of assembly.

[Vesa Jussila]

Good background story. And this scale definitely gives you room for improving kit. I will take a front seat and follow your build.

 

And welcome to forum!

[bosscat]

thx a lot!!

 

First step, we start with the chassis with its various crosspieces and side members.  A lot of preparation work on the parts and it takes time because at 1/12, the chassis is 30cm long! The plastic is quite brittle but easy to work with. A lot of work also on the junctions of the half-pieces such as the front crosspiece and the rear axle. The guidance of these parts is, to say the least, very imprecise. Given their size, I let it dry between each step for more solidity. There are also traces of ejectors on the visible sides... We'll have to get the mastic out. Despite everything, it fits relatively well for the moment, there's just more preparation work than the majority of brands we have today. It changes from my GWH Sukhoi  35 i've made before .

In terms of more annoying problems, Italeri screwed up in the contents of the kit. I have 2 identical bags of screws instead of 2 different bags. there is therefore a lot missing... I've send a mail to Italeri, they send me a bag.

The rest is detailed enough for scale but I might tweak a few things. For example, the engine is attached to the chassis on the side of the rails, the screw heads visible on the side of the car. Out of scale especially since nothing is present on the real car. I don't really understand the use of screws at this point. They only hold the weight of the engine and are therefore not too stressed. So I'm going to look to plug the holes on the parts and find another way to fix it all.

The blank assembly of the chassis does not seem to reveal anything problematic, everything seems to fit together well and do something straight.

 

Not much to show, here I am:

On the longitudinal members, we can see the 2 series of 4 holes useful for the passages of the screws of the engine.

 

 

 

 

[Bengalensis]

Lovely! I'm looking forward to see what you will make of this kit. It's also an interesting choice of subject to build that car of Nuvolari instead of the usual ones (including my own). I remember my build as a rewarding project that I enjoyed a lot, I hope you have the same experience! And good look with threading all those wire locking bolts 😎👍

[Quiet Mike]

Hello and welcome! The 8C is such an awesome car, good luck with your build.

[Stickframe]

Hello - thank you for providing a really interesting introduction.  I'll watch your build, as I have been tempted several times to buy this kit - sort of a two for one - we get yo see your project come together and maybe make a decision about buying the kit too!

 

Cheers

Nick 

[SprueMan]

You need not apologise for your english, which is excellent

Good luck with the build. I hope to follow it and learn from it as I am sure it will be very interesting.

Edited November 11, 2022 by SprueMan

[bosscat]

thx to all you guys!! I appreciate! 

 

For finish the day,  a small photo of the flyer announcing the event!! This evening, many researchs of the event, the drivers and the season 1933. Tomorrow, I will make a little summary.

 

 

 

 

 

[bosscat]

hello guys, hope you have a nice saturday!!

 

Well, I have a historical problem that will affect my project, I have  discovered in my researchs that it is very easy to be mistaken. I had had a glimpse of it following the various race reports of those years that I had found before. And here are the reasons:

 

-the race in question took place 90 years ago

-the event was considered an important race but was not part of the major events of 1933. Whereas it was in 1932 because it was not part of the same series. GP of the ACF (automotive club of France, official federation of the time) in 1932 whereas simple GP of the Marne in 33. There was not yet really organized championship. Race locations within a country varied from year to year. The GP of the ACF in 32 was in Reims, in Monthléry in 33 for example. As a result, few photos exist.

-the cars were used for several seasons, drivers changed, there were few drivers engaged in stables, many private drivers raced.

-several types of cars of the same brand including the official teams, used different cars according to races or conditions.

-driver numbers changed often and cars were used by different drivers throughout the season. And sometimes, 2 drivers took turns during the same race, a bit like in endurance. It must be said that sprint races were very long at the time.

-the photos are rare and I have the impression that even the period photos have been mixed up to illustrate the press articles. of the place of the subject described.

- all versions combined, alfa romeo built 190 8C cars at that time, racing or road versions, with different bodywork, transformed from one race to another depending on the route.

-many cars have been driven for many years at the time and some of them are still used in historic competition or during shows (Goodwood, Peeble Beach etc..)

-many cars have been transformed and/or restored, sometimes with modern parts

-there are many photos of engines but since they were invariably fitted to racing and road models, they are not all finished in the same way. Some have painted crankcases and chrome timing covers but it seems that they didn't bother with all that on racing cars.

 

Result, I have confirmation that Nuvolari had the number 12 on his alfa from the Alfa Romeo scuderia led by Enzo Ferrari. But both in 1932 and 1933, he was not driving a 2300 at Gueux but a 2600. More than the displacement, it was the architecture of the engine that made me realize that I was wrong. On a pair of photos, we can clearly see that the exhaust is located on the right and not on the left as on the 2300. It is not only this element which makes the difference between the 2 engines but it is the most visible. In addition, the chassis that can be seen is not painted. The version equipped by this engine was typo B or P3. It's this model:

 

 

 

It's Nuvolari's car in 1933 and you can see that it has 3 different car numbers... The last one is a photo of the Reims event (Gueux corner) of 1933 and you can clearly see the absence of exhaust and unpainted chassis. Instead of that, you can see the 2 compressors ebind the front wheel  that fitted the P3. They were fitted as standard, whereas the 2300 had only one.

 

The photo that misled me is the following one, I can no longer find the site where I found it among other photos of the Marne event.

 

 

 

We can clearly see here that it is a 2300 with the exhaust on the left. But also that it is number 12 and we can guess the Scuderia Ferrari badges on the bonnet. Everything leads me to believe that it is an alfa from another race... or a spare car?

Conclusion, I am a little lost and I wonder about the usefulness of wanting to be ultra precise or wanting to make a specific car... So, I think that rather than doing Nuvolari's car at all costs specifically (impossible to do since he has never driven a 2300 in Reims...), I'm going to do an afla of the scuderia which would have driven in reims in 32 or 33 without further details. I would be less stuck in the decoration and equipment choices I could make. For the number, I'll see later.

What do you think?

[Vesa Jussila]

This is problem with race cars. Even today those are updated between the races and details differ. When we talk events that were 90 years ago and documentation can be really missing. Then sometimes guesswork is only option.

[Bengalensis]

Welcome to the world of pre war racing research 😎 It is never easy and sometime hopeless to get the definitive answer, but always very rewarding and a source for a lot of interesting mental time travelling.

 

I don't know if you have seen Leif Snellman's excellent web site: http://www.kolumbus.fi/leif.snellman/

[Bengalensis]

Do not miss the fact that Scuderia Ferrari's 8C Monzas in 1933 often raced Enzo's bored out 2600 engine, sometimes breaking sometimes surviving. This can be confusing if they are only refered to as 2600 Alfas.

 

GP de la Marne at Reims 1933 should have #12 as Tazio Nuvolari in Enzo's 2600 8C Monza, possibly the car in your last photo above. Not a bad choice of subject.

 

 

[bosscat]

thx for the research and the link of Snellman. I'vent find another Alfa 2300 with number 12 in 1932 and 1933. Firts cars with 2600 had the same engine deisgn than the 2300? Only the root's compressor like the italeri kit with the exhaust on the left side? Not the twin compressors with th right side exhaust? Do you think it's really the Nuvolari's car in this picture? I'm sure that's a scuderia's cars, we can see the cavalinno rempante on the bonnet.

 

Here's  a picture of the start of the race! 2 Maserati and a bugatti on the front row ! Nuvolari  was far in the grid. The alfa with number 2 is Etencellin's car who won the race but his alfa was blue and was private driver.

 

 

Edited November 12, 2022 by bosscat

[Bengalensis]

1 hour ago, bosscat said:

thx for the research and the link of Snellman. I'vent find another Alfa 2300 with number 12 in 1932 and 1933. Firts cars with 2600 had the same engine deisgn than the 2300? Only the root's compressor like the italeri kit with the exhaust on the left side? Not the twin compressors with th right side exhaust? Do you think it's really the Nuvolari's car in this picture? I'm sure that's a scuderia's cars, we can see the cavalinno rempante on the bonnet.

Enzo's Scuderia Ferrari prepared Alfa Romeo Monzas in 1933 where very much the same Monzas entered by Alfa Romeo in 1932, but often with the engine displacement enlarged from 2,3 l to 2,6 l. The same basic engine, single compressor, left side exhaust. Not to be confused with the 1932 works Alfa Romeo P3 (Tipo B ) single seaters with twin compressors and right side exhaust. The P3's where silent for a large part of the 1933 season as Alfa withdrew at the end of 1932 and left the operation in Enzo Ferrari's hands for 1933, but the P3 cars where only made available to Ferrari late in 1933.

 

I haven't studied the Marne GP events at Reims especially close, but from what I can make out by some quick reading the #12 car in the photo you show, with two white stripes across the photo, could be Tazio Nuvolaris Scuderia Ferrari 2600 Monza of the Marne GP 1933.

 

In 1932 Nuvolari drove an Alfa Romeo works P3 at Remis, also with #12, but not the same thing.

[bosscat]

thx a lot for the explanation, I am reassured.

Let's go for the number 12!!!

 

Another question, you painted the floor with what color exatly? Grey or alu??

[Bengalensis]

10 hours ago, bosscat said:

Another question, you painted the floor with what color exatly? Grey or alu??

 

Good question... Looking back at my build thread I think the base coat may have been Alclad Dark Aluminium, but it could also have been Alclad Aluminium. This was followed by some light random dry brushing, possibly both black and dark grey.

[bosscat]

ok thx, I'll choose matt alu after your answer and reference pictures. Hard to take a decision with all restored cars!

 

Yesterday, between my research, I started assembling the engine. A lot of cleaning and a repair at the front. Molding problem, a piece of plastic was missing at the level of the first cylinder.... A few pieces of plastic card and matting to repair that, luckily it was simple surfaces, I would have had a big problem otherwise. I'm going to do a primer to check that everything will be invisible and if I still have to do something.

 

 

 

 

 

Well, first modification, the air filter which is rather basic and just prevents "objects" from entering but not dust. It is attached directly to the carburetor. The real one looks like this:

 

 

 

Italeri has the good idea of making a plastic part or a small photo-etched part embellished with a textile net and a small plastic part. But the mesh is quite big and the flat PE does not look too good. So I decided to do it all over again.

So I drew the base part that holds the arch of the grid. I did this via drawing software and printed a sticker of it. I glued this on a small brass plate 1mm thick.

 

 

 

 

I drilled with a small 0.5mm drill bit. Given the diameter and nature of the material, I preferred to drill with a hand drill (good word?). It obviously takes longer to drill than plastic!

I started making the clearance hole with a scroll saw. Finish the outline with files.

 

 

 

next step, you have to cut the part. The scroll saw is fine but the blade is super flimsy. I broke 2 of them, not used to it and I don't have a jeweler's peg to hold all that! Finally, we finish everything with various files and sand paper. I then checked in situation.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Now, we take 0.4mm brass rod and solder it all with low temperature paintable solder. It's small and with my big stubby fingers, it's misery!! I can't tell you how long it took me! With Tamiya tweezers, it gives you an idea of the size of the small pieces of rod that need to be soldered. We check again in situation:

 

 

 

 

 

 

-Finally, you have to tackle the grid; To do this, I cut a piece out of the generic PE grid (thanks Bengalensis) and shaped it using the plastic piece. I also welded the grid on the reverse. Finally, you can see the result ready to be prepared to be painted.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Not to mention the conception and the drawing, I spent my entire evening making this little piece... But I'm relatively satisfied with the result, what do you think?

 

 

 

 

[Bengalensis]

Good work going on here!

 

1 hour ago, bosscat said:

ok thx, I'll choose matt alu after your answer and reference pictures. Hard to take a decision with all restored cars!

 

Restored cars are often very unreliable as reference for historic accuracy. Then again, it is also important to remember that what really counts in the end is to enjoy the time spent at the model work bench the most, so at some point one has to draw a line in the research if it gets too problematic. That line may vary a lot between different modellers and their different subjects.

[bosscat]

yes, you're totally right Jörgen, have fun is the more important thing!! 

 

Just for the fun, Etencellin on his Monza in 1932 at the exit of the Gueux corner! Look at all the gravels on the road!! In the race report, we can see that two drivers abandonned due to eyes injuries in 1933's race!

 

 

 

[Hopsing]

A nice project, I will certainly be able to take something for my construction.
At CG Trader there is even the matching Nuvolari to print yourself.

[keefr22]

5 hours ago, bosscat said:

Etencellin on his Monza in 1932 at the exit of the Gueux corner!

 

What a great photo!

 

Good work on the air filter, very neat!

 

Keith

[bosscat]

today some paint for the powertrain

 

I work with extrem metal from AK. As I said previously, difficult to have real colors of the time. I will stay on more or less finished raw foundry parts but no painted parts. To provide contrast, I multiplied the shades. I also played on the type of primer to change the look. So, I chose a black Mr hobby primer for the engine block and the gearbox housing. It gives a certain rough look. For the engine, I took matt aluminum  and steel for the gearbox. Aluminum also for the carburator. The upper part is covered with Nato black AK acrylic. Unlike the photo of the actual carburator posted previously, the upper part is black in most of my photos. I imagine that the carb in my photo has been stripped, it is pretty clean for a part that is 90 years old. The air filter grille is painted in brass. I then glued it to the carburator. In fact, the 2 cylinder heads (not sure about the word...) have been primed and covered with gloss black tamiya. Then i used a fiberglass pen and sanded the paint to return to the black paint under. And I have the result , which match well with the engine.

 

However, here is the result!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[keefr22]

Beautiful metal work, looks very realistic!

 

Keith

[kiseca]

Ooh, I'll climb aboard for this one, I have the roadgoing version in the stash.

 

Looks fantastic so far!

[Toftdale]

Great work all round, but I particularly like the air filter - Andy