Olive Drab Neutral Grey C-47/Dakota

[PhantomBigStu]

Can of worms here I have decals for the two D-Day RAF ones in the italeri kit and will do one on the Airfix soonish and wondering which combo of OD and NG grey is right, heard unlike other types they stuck with the Olive Drab 41 and the darker early Neutral Grey rather than the paler NG43 and lighter greener ANA613.

Am I correct in the choice of the darker combination or sould I use regular ANA613 and FS36173 version of NG? 

[Chuck1945]

As I remember Dana Bell’s writing, the USAAF pretty much stuck with OD 41 although there could be quite a bit of variability in actual paint applied especially when exposed to the elements. I’ve seen pictures of C-47 aircraft that looked almost a light tan.

[Graham Boak]

The variability was not only due to the elements than the subcontractor: early aircraft can be seen with sand-brown fuselages, grey-green wings and dark green fins.  Plus the variation due to fabric covering on the control surfaces and Medium Green blotchings on the trailing edge.  However, much of this doesn't seem to be present on the later production aircraft seen around D-Day.  I would tend to go with one of the greener ODs (perhaps not as green as ANA613 though I wonder) rather than the brown seen on earlier, browner, variants.

[PhantomBigStu]

Thanks both, I use Xtracrylix ana613 and planning on ordering some Vallejo 889 for OD41 for the p-38 I’m working on, hence Im asking now as to whether I should get an extra pot or two while I’m at it or some more XA. 

Edited November 5, 2022 by PhantomBigStu

[Chuck1945]

According to Dana’s monograph on WWII OD, even though ANA 613 had been established as the ‘standard’ color by 1943, the Material Division of the USAAF kept OD 41 as long as camo was required on new aircraft, supposedly even telling paint producers to put ANA 613 labels on OD 41 if anyone insisted on getting 613.

Edited November 5, 2022 by Chuck1945
Fix a typo

[PhantomBigStu]

edit: reritten for clarity 

After all the comments I decided to look at at series of colour photos of bombers and transports and I have also come to the conclusion that most were indeed wearing a darker browner interpretation of Olive Drab similar to what Xtrcrylix call ANA613, wheres the stuff, mostly early b-29's which the lighter green OD probably is true ANA613 and in the end I've decided to order a couple of pots of AK interactive OD41 and NG43 for both the P-38 and the Dakota and in future Ill use either that or the Xtracrylix for OD41 and perhaps depending on how it comes out NG43.

 

Though that begs the question what to use on RAF aircraft that supposedly did use ANA613 as a sub for Dark green, pretty sure all those I've done to date I used humbrol 155 so should be fine sticking with that.....

 

cheers again to all who commented 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited November 7, 2022 by PhantomBigStu

[brinjal]

Without going too detail on the 22 shades, ANA etc, I would just like my D-Day C-47 to not look brownish green. 

 

Can I know if the finished product would look weird/wrong, if i use Tamiya XF-81 (RAF dark green) and XF83 (RAF medium sea grey)? 

[Chuck1945]

If you have access to Tamiya, XF-62 (olive drab) would be a lot closer to OD 41, Tamiya also do a neutral gray, XF-53. However IMO, XF-53 is too dark; while at least one Neutral Gray color reference is a very dark gray, many B&W photographs show it quite a bit lighter and Tamiya  XF-20 might be a better choice.

[e8n2]

1 hour ago, brinjal said:

Without going too detail on the 22 shades, ANA etc, I would just like my D-Day C-47 to not look brownish green. 

 

Can I know if the finished product would look weird/wrong, if i use Tamiya XF-81 (RAF dark green) and XF83 (RAF medium sea grey)? 

In a word, yes.  RAF Dark Green is nothing like OD 41 or ANA 613.  MSG would be too light.  FS 36173, although that standard did not exist until fifteen years or so later, looks to be good for a later war neutral gray.  The U.S. neutral gray of WW II was darker than FS 36270, which also has been called neutral gray and is very close to MSG. 

Later,

Dave

[brinjal]

Thanks for the suggestions. For the olive drab, I stumbled across the photo below. i guess it explains everything. OD41, ANA613 and anything in between goes. In fact, the J8 plane's green looks pretty similar to my spare sprue here with XF-81. But I will go with Gunze H52. Still slightly on the brownish side to my eye, but looks like a good match on the photo (I am building Academy's 1/144 D-Day C47 "that's all brother"). I have used XF64 before, and it was too dark to my liking. Also, Gunze's H304 gets me intrigued.  

As for the grey, i've seen enough pictures that XF83 is indeed too light, but would like opinions whether XF20 as mentioned by @Chuck1945, or Gunze H53, or even XF24 would compliment H52 well? 

 

[Chuck1945]

Olive Drab 41 is a brownish green (or greenish brown😛). The first photo of the cockpit looks close to the OD color, the second photo of the two C-47s looks too green. Your H-52 looks like a good choice. H-53 looks a good choice for neutral gray, as is XF-24.

[Seawinder]

2 hours ago, Chuck1945 said:

Olive Drab 41 is a brownish green (or greenish brown😛). The first photo of the cockpit looks close to the OD color, the second photo of the two C-47s looks too green. Your H-52 looks like a good choice. H-53 looks a good choice for neutral gray, as is XF-24.

Why too green? I'd say J8-B is wearing fresher paint given the amount of contrast on the wing with the Medium Green splotches. Given the many batch variations, climatic effects and photo light conditions, both ODs in the photo are well within the ballpark walls.

[Graham Boak]

Early advice to British modellers on the C-47 was that they were painted in Dark Earth.  Wrong, but a bit of a hint there.   I've certainly seen a lot of variation of OD in different WW2 colour photos, but I'm with Chuck.  The green on the other aircraft is too pure a green and lacks even a hint of olive.

[Chuck1945]

AFAIK both photos are warbirds, not WWII color photos. I’m just saying the appearance of OD in the first photo is more representative of the WWII color OD 41.  While AN 613 was supposed to replace OD 41 and was more green, at least one serious researcher (Dana Bell) asserts there is little evidence ANA 613 was actually used on USAAF aircraft since the Material Division insisted on OD 41.

[PhantomBigStu]

16 minutes ago, Chuck1945 said:

AFAIK both photos are warbirds, not WWII color photos. I’m just saying the appearance of OD in the first photo is more representative of the WWII color OD 41.  While AN 613 was supposed to replace OD 41 and was more green, at least one serious researcher (Dana Bell) asserts there is little evidence ANA 613 was actually used on USAAF aircraft since the Material Division insisted on OD 41.

I've come across colour photos that suggest the OD B-29's were in ANA613