Grey painted seaplane with crew of three and two machine guns probably from Murmansk region. What type it could have been?

[Kari Lumppio]

Hello!

 

At a Finnish aviation forum an interesting newspaper clipping was presented*.

 

Ar Kuolajärvi** area August 23rd, 1918 (newspaper article 27th) a bug grey painted seaplane dropped six bombs on Finnish village Kurtti. Finland was then already independent State and the attacker came from direction of Russia. The attack was seen as threat for the young state. Protests were sent to diplomats at Stockholm, Sweden. Intended address likely was Great Britain.

 

Most likely the seaplane was British although the insignia is described as large black roundels on wings.

What could have been the plane type? Six bombs, crew of three, two machine guns, grey painted. And where one could find more information about the aviation side of the North Russia intervention***?

Photos even?

 

Also the interesting question did Royal Navy aviation co-operate with the Murmansk Legion which Brits created from RED Finns !!! **** And could this attack have been part of that operation?

 

 

Cheers,

Kari

 

* https://www.flightforum.fi/topic/49871-lentohyökkäys-kuolajärven-alueella-2781918/ (In Finnish, but Google Translate can mangle something understandable of it?)

** Kuolajärvi at Google Maps:

https://www.google.com/maps/place/Kuolajärvi,+Murmanskaja,+Venäjä,+184060/@66.9733237,29.2454757,1758m/data=!3m2!1e3!4b1!4m5!3m4!1s0x442c353acfcc738b:0x46b088eac2ac0ffc!8m2!3d66.9743683!4d29.2563797

*** North Russian intervention in Wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_Russia_intervention

**** Murmansk Legion in Wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murmansk_Legion

 

Edited November 5, 2022 by Kari Lumppio
Incident date corrected

[TallBlondJohn]

Google translate doesnt seem to be much use, but I'd agree with the suggestion of the Fairey Campania. They were deployed and saw action as far south as Uhtua, and could carry 6 112lb bombs:

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fairey_Campania

 

But its only a two-seater. How could ground observers be so sure about the number of crew and guns?

[Kari Lumppio]

Hi!

 

I cannot answer how reliable observations were made then. The plane seems to have been in reconnaissance and the bombs were dropped one by one. The plane flew at first at 500 meter altitude and climbed to 800 m for bombing. 

 

Fairey Campania seems to likely candidate if the plane really was British. This will remain unsolved unless there is some (online) record available for the period. Has anyone idea of the possible unit?

 

Cheers,

Kari

[stevehed]

Hi,

Are you sure of the August 1918 date. The war is still ongoing and I don't think there was a British naval surface presence in the Baltic until after the war ended.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_campaign_in_the_Baltic_(1918–1919)

 

If the August date is correct it makes it likely that the aircraft was Bolshevik. The Reds had taken over a quantity of Grigorovich M9 flying boats. These attacked British shipping and aircraft which were based in Finland during 1919. These aircraft were capable of carrying three crew and M9's operated by the Reds in defence of Baku, on the Caspian Sea, were reported as dropping about 6000kgs of bombs. Personally, I don't think these would have been large bombs but the size doesn't seem apparent from the Finnish report. I also think it possible that a seaplane could be any type of aircraft that was thought had flown from the sea and, when these aircraft were flown by the Imperial Navy, they were painted grey. HTH

 

http://www.all-aero.com/index.php/contactus/34-planes/13534-grigorovich-m-9-grigorovic-m-9-shchetinin-m-9

http://wio.ru/ww1a/fboat.htm

[Kari Lumppio]

Hi!

 

Yes, the August 1918 is affirmative. Remember this is NOT Baltic region but Murmansk region. It seems Brits fought white Finns because Germans had helped oust reds and russians out of Helsinki* and remained there. WWI was still going on.

 

It was the next year, 1919, Brits flew from Finnish Björkö (Koivisto) against Petrograd and bolsheviks. That was Baltic region (Gulf of Finland). Many of Ship's Camels flew there.

 

UK has bombed Finland in WWI and WW2. Let us hope not in the next one.

 

This being modelling forum, the grey colour and black roundel markings are the interesting factors.

 

Cheers,

Kari

 

*https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Helsinki

Edited November 7, 2022 by Kari Lumppio

[stevehed]

Hi Kari,

             I've had a look at the right theatre this time and there was a British presence in the Murmansk-Archangel area from March 1918. According to a couple of old Profile Publications there were DH4's and Short 184 floatplanes during 1918. The latter came over on the seaplane carrier HMS Pegasus. I get the impression that the Campania's and Fairy IIIC's were active during 1919. Assuming the eyewitnesses are right about the colour I don't believe any of these aircraft would have been grey, more likely PC10 or PC12.

 

https://www.rafmuseum.org.uk/blog/the-raf-in-russia/

 

This link about RAF involvement in North Russia suggests that elements of the Imperial Russian air fleet, probably naval units I would have thought in this area, remained active when the British force arrived. Therefore I'm still inclined to stick with my original thought that the aircraft could have been a Russian flying boat or a floatplane such as a Farman.

 

Regards, Steve

[Kari Lumppio]

Hi!

 

Steve, thank you for thoughtful reply and link.

 

Russians on white side did not fight against Finland. We were on the same side then! If Russian then it had to be red i.e. bolshevik plane. I don't think there was many suitable land plane airfields in range to fly over Kuolajärvi, likely none. So seaplane most probably. And grey was used on Russian seaplanes, agree on that.

 

I fear this remains unsolved.

 

Cheers,

Kari

[stevehed]

Hi Kari,

            Abandoned Czarist aircraft refurbished by Bolsheviks appears to be the only remaining solution. Until someone discovers a unit history for Red formations in the area I think you're right to classify the incident unsolved.

 

Regards, Steve