New C-130J's for the RAAF

[Slater]

I had thought that Embraer's C-290 might have a shot at this award:

 

https://news.defence.gov.au/media/media-releases/project-air-7404-phase-1-medium-air-mobility-replacement

[cerperal]

On the one hand, it's a platform that to call it proven is an understatement, and is already well known to the RAAF. On the other hand, it's also one growing quite long in the tooth. I do wonder if they'll regret this decision over the next decade, given that as soon as these come into service they will almost certainly be looking for a replacement. 

 

If price wasn't a factor, one does wonder how many more Atlas would be in service around the world 

[Slater]

The official request:

 

https://www.dsca.mil/sites/default/files/mas/Press Release - Australia 22-62 CN.pdf

[junglierating]

For one second I thought it said RAF ...i was gobsmacked

[-Neu-]

15 hours ago, cerperal said:

On the one hand, it's a platform that to call it proven is an understatement, and is already well known to the RAAF. On the other hand, it's also one growing quite long in the tooth. I do wonder if they'll regret this decision over the next decade, given that as soon as these come into service they will almost certainly be looking for a replacement. 

 

If price wasn't a factor, one does wonder how many more Atlas would be in service around the world 

There isn't a program of record at the moment for an aircraft to replace the C-130J and the J model is a modern aircraft as any other: they'll be operating it for 20~30 years with no problems or regrets. It also fits their force structure better, with eight C-17s and a dozen J models basically sharing the strategic and tactical workloads. Also the RAAF has zero confidence in European programs after the Tiger and Attack debacles, so the Atlas isn't really in the cards at all.

Edited November 3, 2022 by -Neu-

[stevehnz]

On 11/2/2022 at 6:28 AM, Slater said:

I had thought that Embraer's C-290 might have a shot at this award:

 

https://news.defence.gov.au/media/media-releases/project-air-7404-phase-1-medium-air-mobility-replacement

I had hoped that our guys might have looked at the C-290 too but for a relatively small order the C-130Js they plumped for made sense, as tried, true & utterly proven, plus our nearest neighbours got a few too.

Steve.

[Greg B]

The simple reason is that the support and training infrastructure is in place and established. Why change what works well, especially as said before when there is no replacement in sight. Add to that the US aspiration to investigate an amphibious version and the geographical nuances of the military sphere of interest here and it opens some other possibilities. 

[Fredag]

Apparently the C-27J Spartans cost as much to run as a C-130J, so possibly any of the other smaller platforms might have the same problem. Might as well get the all- rounder for the same operating cost and compatible with existing fleet.

[Hoppy]

4 minutes ago, Fredag said:

Apparently the C-27J Spartans cost as much to run as a C-130J, so possibly any of the other smaller platforms might have the same problem. Might as well get the all- rounder for the same operating cost and compatible with existing fleet.

I believe that spares and support for the C-27 are also becoming an issue . They were purchased through the US program and since only their Coast Guard still operate them, support is problematic. I remember at the start the manufacturer said not buying direct could lead to issues but price came into the decision. They are also still not fully operational in a hostile environment. They have done great work though in support of the bushfires and flood emergencies. After the ongoing issues with the European helicopters I doubt the Atlas was ever seriously considered .

 

Bob

 

[exdraken]

12 hours ago, Fredag said:

Apparently the C-27J Spartans cost as much to run as a C-130J, so possibly any of the other smaller platforms might have the same problem. Might as well get the all- rounder for the same operating cost and compatible with existing fleet.

I have a hard time understanding that.. as the C-27J Spartan was designed to supplement the C-130J ( note the J!!)

So engines etc should be the same, but only 2..

 

Additionally, the C-130 surely costs more to operate regarding fuel, footprint etc... but true, 2 pilots is 2 pilots!

 

The only other small platform is 5he C295, a very proven design ( but much smaller than the C-130)

Embraer's C-390 is bigger and has longer range. Could be a good Hercules replacement for many indeed!

 

 

[-Neu-]

2 hours ago, exdraken said:

I have a hard time understanding that.. as the C-27J Spartan was designed to supplement the C-130J ( note the J!!)

So engines etc should be the same, but only 2..

 

Yes, but if there's excessive maintenence requirements, or parts don't arrive on time (A perennial issue for the RAAF with European procurements), the cost goes up because people aren't flying, and they're sitting around doing nothing, while other platforms have to take up the gap. 

 

 

2 hours ago, exdraken said:

Additionally, the C-130 surely costs more to operate regarding fuel, footprint etc... but true, 2 pilots is 2 pilots!

 

The only other small platform is 5he C295, a very proven design ( but much smaller than the C-130)

Embraer's C-290 is bigger and has longer range. Could be a good Hercules replacement for many indeed!

 

 

 

The 295 is not even close to comparable aircraft, they are significantly slower, have much less range and carrying capacity. Passable for light work, but totally inadequate for the roles that the RAAF will use them for. Exhibit A is the disaster that is the RCAF's Fixed Wing SAR program: there's a very high likelihood that he entire $2B CAD purchase will be scrapped because the C-295 is totally insufficient for the AF's needs, and its forced to used C-130Hs to fill the gap. Its a glorified ATR, not a tactical lifter. 

 

 

Edited November 3, 2022 by -Neu-

[alt-92]

On 11/3/2022 at 5:30 AM, Greg B said:

Add to that the US aspiration to investigate an amphibious version

That's just to pre-empt any overtures towards the US-2 I suspect.