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Guy Armoured Car Mk. 1/1A


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Hi all. While I'm flitting about with builds in another GB, I thought I'd start this as a 'slow burn' until the others are complete. I have a number of subjects that could fit into this GB, so I thought I'd start off with this Guy Armoured Car Mk. 1/1A by Milicast in their 1/76 scale.

The obligatory stuff:

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The box.

 

20221101-163733.jpg 

The resin parts...with breakages :wall:.

 

20221101-163909.jpg

The instructions. According to the above, the only difference between the Mk. 1 and the 1A is the weapons. 

Clean up time I guess.

 

Stuart

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1 hour ago, IanC said:

Interesting subject. Some of those parts look a bit fragile! 

Indeed, explains why there was parts debris in the bag. Fortunately, it looks like the parts that are broken are things that go underneath like track rods. There may be some little parts missing, we'll see soon enough.

 

Stuart

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2 hours ago, Bullbasket said:

Not seen one of these before, real or model. Good luck with the clean up.

Nor have I John. Bovington has one here.

 

The clean up.

20221102-101934.jpg

Inspection of the hull found 3 out the four wheel fenders broken...

 

20221102-115750.jpg

So new fenders were made. The centres of the lifting eyes were drilled out. The rest was cleaned up as best as you can without a primer coat on.

 

20221102-115807.jpg

The rest of was cleaned carefully. The tie rods are a lost cause, I could easily knock something up but they're underneath and behind the wheel, so I shan't bother. Exhaust outlet was broken off. One of the headlamps is missing but images show that these were always in a state, so I shan't bother about that either. Think the little searchlight is missing too. Bound to be bubbles that need filling. A careful wash and away we go.

 

Stuart

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Millicast kits are good but prone to breakage. When I first came across them about 12 years ago I bought a lot and was on good terms with the very helpful owner (he retired a few years back I believe) - he sent me a few replacements without any quibble when there was any major damage such as broken tracks. He explained that they use rubber/silicone moulds and after a relatively short run they start to deteriorate, but the main problem is getting the really small bits off the blocks intact. Usually they can be replaced with card/rod and they build up quite well. They have two ranges - one is a true kit with loads of parts and the other mostly simplified versions with many of the details moulded on to the main body. The most fiddly I have done was their Archer SP anti tank gun.

 

Nice to see a Guy here - of course they were only produced in limited numbers and then Humber took over, which is why the two designs are very similar. I believe that the chassis was based on that of the Quad Ant 4 x 4 artillery tractor. Headlamps are easy enough to make from sprue but a real pain to glue on as I have had a good few go flying off out of my tweezers, never to be seen again.

 

The other main problem is of course the lack of decals but I have built up a decent stock - PM me if you need anything and I will see what I have got. The Census/serial numbers for the Guys are a bit of a mystery - normally scout cars and armoured cars had a number beginning with "F" but I have found only one entry for a "Guy I" which is T10314-T10363 - back then they were called "light tank (wheeled)" so I guess that is for the batch of 50 Mk I. No sign of the 51 Mk IA. Somebody else might have better info. They may be hidden in a batch of Humbers which did have an "F" number. No idea which units used them other than the fact that a few were sent to France as part of the BEF.

 

Good luck.

 

Pete

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On 11/2/2022 at 1:30 PM, PeterB said:

I have found only one entry for a "Guy I" which is T10314-T10363

With that bit of info...

20221104-113151.jpg

I fitted out the turret for a Mk.1. Silly little bits like the exhaust was repair and fitted. Jack fitted. Made some headlights and fitted them. Fitted the drivers visor, that's the hull done. Turret was fitted out with its Mk.1 twin Vickers and hatches posed open. Everything was then primed.

 

Stuart

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3 hours ago, Ted said:

That kit looks really detailed and crisp. It's nice to see a 1/76 kit built with the hatches open.

Some Millicast kits come with separate hatch doors and some are moulded with them open which can make them prone to breakage in transit - one door was missing on my Challenger but easy enough to replace with card. I am not good at figures and usually go for closed hatches, but faced with one or two moulded open I bought a set of tank crew figures from Millicast and they have not come out too badly.

DSC04914-crop

They do some nice sets including legless turret crew. Incidentally I used Mike Starmer's number sheets - they are ruddy small and hard to see but he covers/covered a wide range of tanks/armoured cars, SPG etc. I believe he has stopped making them now but may have some still available - I looked to see if there was anything suitable for your kit but I don't think there was as all his "armoured car decs seem to F numbers.

 

Pete

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4 hours ago, Ted said:

That kit looks really detailed and crisp. It's nice to see a 1/76 kit built with the hatches open.

 

1 hour ago, PeterB said:

tank crew figures from Millicast

I usually have a hatch or two open on my vehicles if I can as it adds interest and gives you a chance to add some detail. This will be my second Milicast build, my first was this:

IMG-8736.jpg

and they do have some lovely detail and I've used Milicast figures too as well as those from Wee Friends. The decals shouldn't be a problem as I recently acquired myself a laser printer, so shouldn't be too difficult to do some black 'T' serials.

 

Stuart 

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Depends of course on the colour scheme you use - I was thinking white serials on a base scheme of Khaki Green 03 perhaps with medium or dark bronze green disruptive pattern, but black will be fine on a desert scheme. Your kit of course so entirely your choice!

 

Pete

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20 minutes ago, PeterB said:

white serials

Don't know why I was thinking 'black' :shrug:, also don't think any Guy's made it to the desert. It's either BEF or the UK, so it's going to be green... To that end, I'll raid my decal box.

 

Stuart

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1 minute ago, Courageous said:

Don't know why I was thinking 'black' :shrug:, also don't think any Guy's made it to the desert. It's either BEF or the UK, so it's going to be green...

 

Stuart

I only have an inkjet printer but when I need to do white I use a paint programme to design them with a background to match the kit - green or whatever.

 

Like this

 

T10314-crop

Not sure if you can do that on a laser? Then once you have resized it and printed it you can always touch up around it - it is going to be tiny anyway!

 

Pete

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There is a technique for transferring laser jet prints using clear acrylic gel.

This is Golden but Liquitex or Winsor & Newton also offer clear gels.

 

 

 

If you do go this route, remember to reverse your letters; it's a mirrored technique.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Sorry for the lack of progress but life and SMW had taken over. Back now.

On 11/4/2022 at 6:34 PM, PeterB said:

Not sure if you can do that on a laser?

New I'd missed something off my SMW shopping list...decal sheet for laser printer, easy enough to get a hold of. Producing the decal shouldn't be a problem (famous last words) if I use white. 

Anyways...

20221115-104926.jpg

Everything has a coat of AK's Khaki Green No.3

 

Stuart

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I remember reading a comment some time ago to the effect that photos  of the Guy Wheeled Tanks in France in 1940 showed them in quite a dark finish that may have been pre-War Deep Bronze Green. I think it was one of Mike Starmer's observations. 

I'll see if I can track it down. 

John 

 

Edit

https://www.tapatalk.com/groups/missinglynx/guy-mk-1-armoured-car-t78505.html

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Afaik the standard colour scheme for BEF vehicles was a base of Khaki Green No 3 with patches of either Deep Bronze Green or Medium Bronze Green - the former being on Infantry tanks A11 and A12  ie Matildas I and II, and most everything else seems to have had the lighter scheme. I have used Colourcoats KG3 which seems a lot darker that your AK version - here is a repainted A13 at the tank museum. When I first visited over 30years ago British Tanks were either painted Deep Bronze Green or in desert colours - later the then curator David Willey told me that in those days they just used whatever paint came to hand - but more recently they have repainted most of the exhibits in what seem to be somewhat more "accurate" colours.

DSC00516

However, the darker colour looks more like black to me!

And here are some Millicast kits I made a few years back painted in Colourcoats.

tanksbef 005-crop

What is quite noticeable is that the way the KG3 looks depends on what it is contrasted with. Against medium bronze green on the Austin Tillie and cruisers it looks very dark whilst it definitely looks browner against the deep bronze green on the Matildas, but also even lighter and browner on the tilt of the Tillie. So beauty  colour definitely seems to be in the eye of the beholder to paraphrase the old saying. Incidentally, the white square was a BEF recognition marking and they all had the yellowish green "gas detection" paint patch at the front where the driver could keep an eye on it. Also note that vehicles build pre-war actually had a "domestic car" type registration number displayed - they were I think registered in the London area. I had thought it would be the same on the Guy but it seems it was discontinued just before the serials were issued for the Guy Mk I fortunately so will not be needed here but I have it on my Matilda I - you can just see one peeping out from behind the  explanatory display notice on this example I photographed many years ago before I got my digital camera in the old hall at the Tank Museum where lighting could be problematic.

20180321193142-01

This might just be original paint though probably not. Note 4RTR's "Chinese Eye" on the turret from the saying "No have eye - how can see?" supposedly attributed to Chinese labourers in the army, in I think WWI when a lot of them were employed at maintenance depots as I recall.

 

Pete

 

 

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On 11/20/2022 at 2:08 PM, John said:

I think it was one of Mike Starmer's observations. 

Thanks for the info John, my go to is: https://www.mafva.org/british-vehicle-camouflage-1939-45/?v=79cba1185463 and then tweak to suit.

20 hours ago, PeterB said:

Afaik the standard colour scheme for BEF vehicles was a base of Khaki Green No 3

I tend to agree Pete in part the above link to the MAFVA site lists a disrupter of Dark Green No.4 or Light Green No.5. Anyway's...

20221121-144331.jpg

The Dark Green goes on and...I don't know. The few photos that do exist with the 1940's disruptor pattern on Guys don't show up very well so I have kept to the 'less is more' ethos but...I don't know. Not sure what to do with those turret holes in the top, do I paint them the internal colour or simulate depth and paint them black? Obviously I'm in a 'I don't know' mood today.

 

Stuart

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Hi Stuart,

 

I use a combination of Mike Starmer's MAFVA notes and the series of four "Warpaint"  books by Dick Taylor published  by Mushroom - they were recommended to me either by Mike himself or perhaps David at the Tank Museum. They give comprehensive details on the colours and markmings on oall British Army vehicles from WWI to the Gulf War. In June 1939 an official "Military Training Pamphlet"  aka MTP  No 20 on "Disruptive painting of vehicles was issued. It describes the principle involved ie use of light and shade and lays out two basic variations on the same scheme which is known to modellers as MTP 20. Essentially Scheme 1 was a base of G3 with G4 as a disruptive colour painted over, whilst Scheme 2 was G3 with G5 as disruptive. Under the then current 1930 edition of BSC 381C paint listing, G3 aka BSC 23 was Khaki Green hence Khaki Green G3, G4 aka BSC 24 was Deep Bronze Green, and G5 BSC 22 was a light "grass" green equated with Light Bronze Green  (not medium as I said earlier). Scheme 1 was for use with dark backgrounds (called average European)  and Scheme 2 with light backgrounds. I am not sure why the Infantry tanks used scheme 1 and the Cruisers seem to have used scheme 2 - maybe they thought that the Infantry tanks would be used in towns with infantry whilst the Cruisers would go charging around more open countryside?

 

The pamphlet has drawings showing the wrong and the right way to apply the disruptive stripes - they must be continuous, not horizontal and the upper surfaces had not to be neglected - in the later "Mickey Mouse" schemes with a black disruptive colour they had in fact to be mostly dark !

 

I guess the pamphlet is in the public domain by now but just in case I won't publish an actual picture, just this link-

https://flic.kr/p/2o1xQpv

 Incidentally the old BSC listing was available online to download a few years back but I can't find my copy - if I do I will post it.

 

Pete

Edited by PeterB
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Thanks for all your input @PeterB.

This image of a 1A https://wwiitank.files.wordpress.com/2014/03/guy-armoured-cars.jpg and your 'pamphlet' link showing a top view indicates that what I've done is about right, just got to work out if it's worth while changing my dark green to a deep bronze green.

 

Stuart

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For the record, when I posted the pic of my number decal on the previous page, the background colour was actually from a DIY chip of my KG3. As with all these chips, painting on plasticard then scanning, and using in a paint prog before posting on a computer screen all result in changes to the appearance and in fact the paint itself is rather darker in real life. It is your KG3 which to my eye is a bit light and more like SCC2 but then there is some noticeable variation between paint manufacturers, the green disruptive is not bad but less "yellow" than my Light Bronze Green and of course Deep Bronze Green is a lot darker. In one of his books Dick Taylor shows a car painted in KG3 next to a serviceman and his Khaki uniform is quite a close match if a little lighter and browner.  If it is any help the RGB value is 83/81/69, and the most up to date copy of Mike's colours on the MAFVA site has various colour mixes in Humbrol, Revell and Tamiya paints to give you and idea if you wanted - I have seen it described as a browner version of US OD. Incidentally, this Cyberhobby chart is quite close.

https://www.cybermodeler.com/color/bs381c_table.shtml

They have labelled BSC 23 Middle Bronze Green  as there is some debate about whether or not that was also called KG3 - compared to my paint it is close but perhaps not quite as brown.

 

Anyway it is your kit so use whatever paint you are happy with - I am just an old fusspot😆.

 

Cheers

 

Pete

Edited by PeterB
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On 11/22/2022 at 12:32 AM, PeterB said:

I am just an old fusspot😆.

I'll always listen to those who offer advice, so again, thanks for you input. I have taken another look at this paint job and the photo I took of it and the model. The model's KG3 is darker than that of the photo due to the horrible lighting/flash. IIRC my LMS recollects that Mike Starmer had input into the British armour colours for the AK paints, the only issue is they need to be lightened for scale effect and I think Mike confirmed this. I don't worry about such things, so to that end, I'll be keeping with the paint job that I've done. I must have read your thoughts Pete re painting some plasticard with KG3, now waiting for white decal paper.

 

Stuart

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Fair enough Stuart.

 

Incidentally, when I built my batch of Millicast BEF tanks - A9, A10, A11, A12 and A13- I bought some sheets of decs - Aleran and possibly Dan Taylor. I still have a fair bit of them left - unit markings, AOS etc so if there is anything you need drop me a PM and I will have a look. Don't know about you but I am unclear which unit(s) operated the Guy? By the way the pic of the Mk IA in the link you posted earlier is interesting - it appears to have the serial T10405, and there is a gap in my listing of census numbers from the last of the Guy Mk I 10363 and the next vehicle listed which is T10415 (a Lloyd Carrier) - that could explain why I could not find them! Looks like the 51 Mk IA were T10364 - 10414.

 

Pete

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2 hours ago, PeterB said:

Don't know about you but I am unclear which unit(s) operated the Guy?

The only thing I have found is this: https://tanks-encyclopedia.com/ww2/gb/Guy-Armoured-Car.php but you may already seen it. If we use this as a basis; 6 to France with Mission No.11, 8 to Coats Mission (UK), majority went to Belgium, Dutch and Danish units and the few remaining were used for training. So, I think I'll be sticking a serial on it and that'll be it...thanks for the decal offer.

 

Stuart

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