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Dutch F-104G....early? Late?


Bozothenutter

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I've been asked to do a KIN F-104G (don't they know they'll never get it?)

Looking at Eduard stuff, and they mention early/late.

I'm afraid I know the answer is probably 'it depends' due to upgrades etc 🙄

But what would a Dutch 104 be?

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That may depend on what markings you're planning.  The Dutch were early adopters of the F-16 and therefore early disposers of the F-104, it could be that that the late standard mods described apply to the Italian and Turkish F-104s so maybe the late mods don't apply to the Dutch F-104s.

 

I'm putting a call out to Martin @RidgeRunner, he knows a thing or two about Starfighters!

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Let me first understand what is different in the two Eduard sets and I'll let you know which one is best suited.

One difference seems to be in the seatbelts, with the "early" set suitable for the C2 seat and the late for the MB seat. Dutch aircraft used the C2

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I don't think they ever got super worn down. Maybe they had better paint, maybe they had more conscripts with time to clean them. Who knows. Maybe add some soot around the gun port.

 

The kit's AIM-9B's could be used, but later on they got the AIM-9J's. The shorter exhaust nozzles were used troughout their career. C-2 seat.

 

The only difference I see between the early and late Löök instrument panels at the Eduard website, is the added slip indicator at the top left of the IP. The cockpit of D-8256 at Volkel has this, so I would go for a late one.

 

Here's a nice pic of one in flight: http://imagemirror.milspotters.nl/userpix/1559_F104G_D8115_322sq_EHLW_22JUL80_1.jpg

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55 minutes ago, tempestfan said:

The Verlinden Lock On may also be worthwhile - I think it appeared ca. 1983 and so would probably cover the KLu birds in their twilight days.

 

The Verlinden book is great for Belgian Starfighters although much of the details would be applicable for Dutch F-104s.  It's certainly worth getting if you see it.

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1 hour ago, Wez said:

 

The Verlinden book is great for Belgian Starfighters although much of the details would be applicable for Dutch F-104s.  It's certainly worth getting if you see it.

Ouch - that was a serious brainfade on my part! Of course Verlinden was Belgian, not Dutch... However, I believe there was some coordination and collaboration between both countries regarding maintenance and upgrades. Would have to check the book if it says something on those aspects. In any event, it is a great source for "general details" (if that makes sense), and something like the mother of this style of book (yes, D&S was earlier, but at least the first six Lock Ons took that concept to a new level). However, I haven't spotted one on my favourite used book platform going up to 50€ combined price - which with all sympathy I wouldn't pay for it.

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12 minutes ago, tempestfan said:

However, I believe there was some coordination and collaboration between both countries regarding maintenance and upgrades.

 

I always thought there was a lot of commonality between the European NATO users of the F-104 and the CF-104 but as time has passed I've realised there were also a lot of subtle differences, the avionics fits for a start, there were different sensor suites between the various nations so the cockpit layouts would be slightly different, likewise there was a difference in the cockpit layout between interceptor and ground attack optimised versions as shown in the Lock-On book (at that price I'm definitely keeping hold of it, it really is a good book).  Engines and their associated exhaust nozzles are a difference I hadn't appreciated until lately too (I knew about the longer nozzles fitted to the F-104S but hadn't appreciated that the F-104G had longer as well as the short versions).

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6 hours ago, Creepy Pete said:

I thought they were stored there, rather than "based". Either way, always room for one more F-104 build. Dutch Decal has a sheet with CAV/UFO (Conversie All-weather Vlucht/Uitfaserings Onderdeel) markings, if you didn't know.

They were based there and used for pilots not yet in the F-16 conversion programme to keep up their flight hours.

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6 hours ago, Bozothenutter said:

They were based there and used for pilots not yet in the F-16 conversion programme to keep up their flight hours.

 

'There' being Volkel, not Ypenburg. Eyewitness speaking. At Ypenburg they just rotted away.

 

Rob

Edited by Rob de Bie
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Does anyone do the protection sleeves for the wing LE? 

Should be fitted, as they were introduced to prevent skull lacerations from bumping into that sharp edge.

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Bozo

 

I have some 322 SQN Photos if you're interested.   I've posted one below, but if you want any others drop me a PM and I'll send you the full copy (the one below is smallish - happy to send the larger copies)

 

"https://www.flickr.com/photos/33898088@N05/52490273865"

 

I have pictures of D-8089, D-8109, D-8110 (with rails), D-6667 (With Rails) - as well as other squadrons for reference material on colours etc

 

Buz

Edited by Buz
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