Bozothenutter Posted November 1, 2022 Share Posted November 1, 2022 I've been asked to do a KIN F-104G (don't they know they'll never get it?) Looking at Eduard stuff, and they mention early/late. I'm afraid I know the answer is probably 'it depends' due to upgrades etc 🙄 But what would a Dutch 104 be? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wez Posted November 1, 2022 Share Posted November 1, 2022 That may depend on what markings you're planning. The Dutch were early adopters of the F-16 and therefore early disposers of the F-104, it could be that that the late standard mods described apply to the Italian and Turkish F-104s so maybe the late mods don't apply to the Dutch F-104s.  I'm putting a call out to Martin @RidgeRunner, he knows a thing or two about Starfighters! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bozothenutter Posted November 1, 2022 Author Share Posted November 1, 2022 I think that might be the best approach, find out what squadron my friend wants, what serial, what timeframe and go from there. It seems pretty much everything is known down to individual airframes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Giorgio N Posted November 1, 2022 Share Posted November 1, 2022 Let me first understand what is different in the two Eduard sets and I'll let you know which one is best suited. One difference seems to be in the seatbelts, with the "early" set suitable for the C2 seat and the late for the MB seat. Dutch aircraft used the C2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RidgeRunner Posted November 1, 2022 Share Posted November 1, 2022 I agree @Bozothenutter. It would be best to find out the squadron - and therefore air defence or ground attack - and period (approx date). Dutch ‘104s changed very little but best to find out first  Martin 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bozothenutter Posted November 1, 2022 Author Share Posted November 1, 2022 He just responded, 322Sqn, no real preference fir year so anything between '64-'80 will do. Was there any time in particular they looked really dirty? (Exercise maybe?) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Creepy Pete Posted November 1, 2022 Share Posted November 1, 2022 I don't think they ever got super worn down. Maybe they had better paint, maybe they had more conscripts with time to clean them. Who knows. Maybe add some soot around the gun port.  The kit's AIM-9B's could be used, but later on they got the AIM-9J's. The shorter exhaust nozzles were used troughout their career. C-2 seat.  The only difference I see between the early and late Löök instrument panels at the Eduard website, is the added slip indicator at the top left of the IP. The cockpit of D-8256 at Volkel has this, so I would go for a late one.  Here's a nice pic of one in flight: http://imagemirror.milspotters.nl/userpix/1559_F104G_D8115_322sq_EHLW_22JUL80_1.jpg 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meindert Posted November 2, 2022 Share Posted November 2, 2022 Hi  it may be wortwhile to check out the IPMS Nederland F-104 pages here....  https://ipms.nl/artikelen/nedmil-luchtvaart/vliegtuigen-l/vliegtuigen-l-lockheed-f104  and their KLu walk arounds  https://ipms.nl/walkarounds/walkaround-jets/walkaround-lockheed-f104 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bozothenutter Posted November 2, 2022 Author Share Posted November 2, 2022 Have found the IPMS info, ordered the AM, ordered the DACO book. Now to clear my desk.....😳 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tempestfan Posted November 2, 2022 Share Posted November 2, 2022 The Verlinden Lock On may also be worthwhile - I think it appeared ca. 1983 and so would probably cover the KLu birds in their twilight days. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wez Posted November 2, 2022 Share Posted November 2, 2022 55 minutes ago, tempestfan said: The Verlinden Lock On may also be worthwhile - I think it appeared ca. 1983 and so would probably cover the KLu birds in their twilight days.  The Verlinden book is great for Belgian Starfighters although much of the details would be applicable for Dutch F-104s. It's certainly worth getting if you see it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tempestfan Posted November 2, 2022 Share Posted November 2, 2022 1 hour ago, Wez said:  The Verlinden book is great for Belgian Starfighters although much of the details would be applicable for Dutch F-104s. It's certainly worth getting if you see it. Ouch - that was a serious brainfade on my part! Of course Verlinden was Belgian, not Dutch... However, I believe there was some coordination and collaboration between both countries regarding maintenance and upgrades. Would have to check the book if it says something on those aspects. In any event, it is a great source for "general details" (if that makes sense), and something like the mother of this style of book (yes, D&S was earlier, but at least the first six Lock Ons took that concept to a new level). However, I haven't spotted one on my favourite used book platform going up to 50€ combined price - which with all sympathy I wouldn't pay for it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wez Posted November 2, 2022 Share Posted November 2, 2022 12 minutes ago, tempestfan said: However, I believe there was some coordination and collaboration between both countries regarding maintenance and upgrades.  I always thought there was a lot of commonality between the European NATO users of the F-104 and the CF-104 but as time has passed I've realised there were also a lot of subtle differences, the avionics fits for a start, there were different sensor suites between the various nations so the cockpit layouts would be slightly different, likewise there was a difference in the cockpit layout between interceptor and ground attack optimised versions as shown in the Lock-On book (at that price I'm definitely keeping hold of it, it really is a good book). Engines and their associated exhaust nozzles are a difference I hadn't appreciated until lately too (I knew about the longer nozzles fitted to the F-104S but hadn't appreciated that the F-104G had longer as well as the short versions). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bozothenutter Posted November 7, 2022 Author Share Posted November 7, 2022 Just found out the last operational Dutch Starfighters were based in Ypenburg (now a residential area where I live)....so I bought another one! Â 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Creepy Pete Posted November 7, 2022 Share Posted November 7, 2022 I thought they were stored there, rather than "based". Either way, always room for one more F-104 build. Dutch Decal has a sheet with CAV/UFO (Conversie All-weather Vlucht/Uitfaserings Onderdeel) markings, if you didn't know. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bozothenutter Posted November 8, 2022 Author Share Posted November 8, 2022 6 hours ago, Creepy Pete said: I thought they were stored there, rather than "based". Either way, always room for one more F-104 build. Dutch Decal has a sheet with CAV/UFO (Conversie All-weather Vlucht/Uitfaserings Onderdeel) markings, if you didn't know. They were based there and used for pilots not yet in the F-16 conversion programme to keep up their flight hours. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob de Bie Posted November 8, 2022 Share Posted November 8, 2022 (edited) 6 hours ago, Bozothenutter said: They were based there and used for pilots not yet in the F-16 conversion programme to keep up their flight hours. Â 'There' being Volkel, not Ypenburg. Eyewitness speaking. At Ypenburg they just rotted away. Â Rob Edited November 8, 2022 by Rob de Bie 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bozothenutter Posted November 8, 2022 Author Share Posted November 8, 2022 14 minutes ago, Rob de Bie said: Â 'There' being Volkel, not Ypenburg. Eyewitness speaking, At Ypenburg they just rotted away. Â Rob Aha, must have misunderstood a caption then... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alt-92 Posted November 8, 2022 Share Posted November 8, 2022 Does anyone do the protection sleeves for the wing LE? Should be fitted, as they were introduced to prevent skull lacerations from bumping into that sharp edge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bozothenutter Posted November 8, 2022 Author Share Posted November 8, 2022 Had to google it, found this walkaround here 😉  Looks like some folded serving tray aluminium and red paint will do the trick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buz Posted November 10, 2022 Share Posted November 10, 2022 (edited) Bozo  I have some 322 SQN Photos if you're interested.  I've posted one below, but if you want any others drop me a PM and I'll send you the full copy (the one below is smallish - happy to send the larger copies)  "https://www.flickr.com/photos/33898088@N05/52490273865"  I have pictures of D-8089, D-8109, D-8110 (with rails), D-6667 (With Rails) - as well as other squadrons for reference material on colours etc  Buz Edited November 10, 2022 by Buz 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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