RAF Kittyhawk GA-Q colors

[Tolga ULGUR]

Hello everyone,

I would like to clarify some details for my future P-40 projects

The subject is P-40 Mk.III Kittyhawk (long tail) coded GA-Q FR309 in 1944 ( Cutella - Italy)

And the question, What are the colors of this Kittyhawk?

Upper surfaces : Olive drab or RAF Dark green ??

Lower surfaces ; Neutral grey or Medium sea grey ? Or something else??

 

I guess these planes were painted in the field after they were sent to Italy. In this case, it seems that the upper surfaces are more likely to be RAF Dark green. But I have no idea about the lower surfaces. What was the previous color?

 

Thanks in advance

 

 

Edited October 31, 2022 by Tolga ULGUR

[Work In Progress]

As no-one with greater knowledge than me has chipped in, I will tender an opinion.

 

The aircraft was built in Olive Drab over Neutral Gray, and I see no reason to assume that it was repainted. 

This is also the opinion of the author here:

https://www.ipmsstockholm.org/magazine/2000/03/stuff_eng_profile_112sqn2.htm

 

Obviously if someone has evidence of it being repainted locally then I am sure they will say so.

[Tolga ULGUR]

1 hour ago, Work In Progress said:

As no-one with greater knowledge than me has chipped in, I will tender an opinion.

 

The aircraft was built in Olive Drab over Neutral Gray, and I see no reason to assume that it was repainted. 

This is also the opinion of the author here:

https://www.ipmsstockholm.org/magazine/2000/03/stuff_eng_profile_112sqn2.htm

 

Obviously if someone has evidence of it being repainted locally then I am sure they will say so.

Thank you

[ColFord]

There is a restored P-40 flying here in Australia in the colours of your subject aircraft - it is not the original FR309 but painted to represent it.  The company doing the restoration spent a lot of time researching the camouflage and markings of the original aircraft for the owner so that the restored aircraft  could be as accurate as they could make it.  They went with Olive Drab over Neutral Grey, which was the scheme the P-40s being delivered into the MTO for both the RAF and USAAF were being delivered in directly from the US.

 

AA P40 Landing by Colin Ford, on Flickr

 

 

P40 Flyby by Colin Ford, on Flickr

 

P40 Belly Pass by Colin Ford, on Flickr

 

 

[Tolga ULGUR]

2 hours ago, ColFord said:

There is a restored P-40 flying here in Australia in the colours of your subject aircraft - it is not the original FR309 but painted to represent it.  The company doing the restoration spent a lot of time researching the camouflage and markings of the original aircraft for the owner so that the restored aircraft  could be as accurate as they could make it.  They went with Olive Drab over Neutral Grey, which was the scheme the P-40s being delivered into the MTO for both the RAF and USAAF were being delivered in directly from the US.

 

AA P40 Landing by Colin Ford, on Flickr

 

 

P40 Flyby by Colin Ford, on Flickr

 

P40 Belly Pass by Colin Ford, on Flickr

 

 

 

That s great, thanks a lot, appreciated

[Sydhuey]

When the Desert AF transitioned from North Africa to Italy the long tail P-40K's (Kittyhawk III's) had their Middle Stone overpainter with Dark Green and the lower surface with Light/Sky Grey , the Short tail P-40K's generally (but not all) stayed in Desert scheme as they were soon to be replaced , as Curtiss now only did P-40's in OD/NG (P-40M's and the soon to be released P-40N) scheme the RAF stayed with that but soon found they didn't like the OD in the low level close support role they were now primarily doing , as very few P-40M's arrived in Italy most stayed in OD some were repainted DG/DE, subsequent new delivery P-40N's (Kittyhawk IV) were repainted in a disruptive pattern of Dark Earth over the OD at depots before delivery to the Sqn's. 

[Tolga ULGUR]

3 hours ago, Sydhuey said:

When the Desert AF transitioned from North Africa to Italy the long tail P-40K's (Kittyhawk III's) had their Middle Stone overpainter with Dark Green and the lower surface with Light/Sky Grey , the Short tail P-40K's generally (but not all) stayed in Desert scheme as they were soon to be replaced , as Curtiss now only did P-40's in OD/NG (P-40M's and the soon to be released P-40N) scheme the RAF stayed with that but soon found they didn't like the OD in the low level close support role they were now primarily doing , as very few P-40M's arrived in Italy most stayed in OD some were repainted DG/DE, subsequent new delivery P-40N's (Kittyhawk IV) were repainted in a disruptive pattern of Dark Earth over the OD at depots before delivery to the Sqn's. 

Thanks a lot for the information, appreciated.

[BS_w]

seen on Curtiss factory paint scheme(1943)

(Arrmy camo : neutral gray 41 / olive drab 41+ frin,ges 42)

 

[Buz]

GA-Q serial is FR806 (FR309 was a later aircraft to wear GA-Q in Mar 1944 and was a Short tailed K model - it replaced FR229, which in turn was the replacement for FR806) - This is one of the very few aircraft believed to have remain in the delivery scheme of OD/NG (a couple of N models remained in their delivery scheme using what available information is out there). Most of the M models were repainted in North Africa in the desert scheme which was later changed to DG/DE over a form of sky very quickly.

 

Why it stayed in OD/NG is unknown, it actually arrived in North Africa in early Jun 43 (test flown at 107MU 8th Jun 1943) however wasn't delivered to 112 SQN until Mid Jul 1943 when the Sqn was flying from Pachino in Sicily. 112 SQN was one of the first units re-equipped with Kittyhawk III (P-40M's) - although not fully, they flew both K models (short tailed and long tailed) and M models together, so maybe that had something to do with it?

 

One of the pilots that flew this aircraft was specifically asked about the finish of Q, was it OD/NG or was camouflaged, his reply was Green uppers. Why did he remember it, because it was coded Q which was unusual in its self and that it was different to the others.    Take what you will of that.

 

Buz     

Edited November 1, 2022 by Buz

[Tolga ULGUR]

Thanks a lot for detailed information Buz. Much appreciated