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Rolls-Royce Armoured Car 1914 & 1920


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That is an interesting way to open the exhaust, but I think I may have an alternate (but similar) approach that would maintain most of the original shape.

 

Use a thin saw to slice into the end of the exhaust such that the blade thickness forms the gap (or at least gives a start that can be expanded if needed)

20221110_235015.jpg

Then you should only need either a small amount of putty for the the small areas on the side or insert some small pieces of styrene.

 

I haven't done this, but it seems like it would be less destructive to the original piece and keep more of the original shape.

Worth a try i the future?

 

 

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Thanks everyone, I really appreciate your comments. 

 

13 hours ago, Ol' Scrapiron said:

That is an interesting way to open the exhaust, but I think I may have an alternate (but similar) approach that would maintain most of the original shape.

 

Use a thin saw to slice into the end of the exhaust such that the blade thickness forms the gap (or at least gives a start that can be expanded if needed)

20221110_235015.jpg

Then you should only need either a small amount of putty for the the small areas on the side or insert some small pieces of styrene.

 

I haven't done this, but it seems like it would be less destructive to the original piece and keep more of the original shape.

Worth a try i the future?

 

 

 

Thanks Scrapiron,

that would be an easier method, I toyed with a couple of methods, including drilling out and a similar method to yours, however the Meng moulding isn't great.

 

9gniHdpl.jpg

 

Not sure if it shows clearly in the photo but the left of the exhaust tapers down to about 1.5mm so it really needed reshaping anyway.

After looking at my reference photo the Meng exhaust looks a little long, on the 1914 car, so it maybe a wasted effort as it won't really be seen if I cut it back.

 

Wayne

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14 hours ago, John Masters said:

 I have saved some of your photos for future reference when I get to build mine in 2023.  I hope that's alright.

No problem with that John, quite flattered really.

 

I managed to find a couple of clearer photos of the 1914 car that I am trying to replicate. The first thing I noticed is that I have gone with the wrong style of storage box under the rear fender, in fact there doesn't appear to be one at all on the left hand side,

however I decided that maybe there was one at some point. So I removed the boxes that I built earlier and scratched two new ones.

 

P8oevAGl.jpg

 

The door flap is made from some pewter sheet.

As with the lower boxes the upper ones appear to come in a variety of styles and sizes. The ones that Meng provide are quite poorly moulded and need a lot of sanding to make them usable.

 

kKikr39l.jpg

 

On this particular 1914 car the boxes seem to be longer than the Meng ones ( which are really only suitable for the 1920 vehicles) but are they similar in section. So once again I made some new ones out of plastic card.

 

zsxIWf5l.jpg

 

I left this one partially open and will have a tarp or something poking out. 

I also decided to replace the front of the mudguard as Meng's depicts the construction as three quite thick planks but looking at the photos of the actual car it looks as though it is one sheet of ply.

 

  AsVjirml.jpg 

 

For the 1920 car I used the Meng boxes as a base. After sanding them to remove the moulding issues a plastic strip was glued along the top edge to represent the lip around the lid. It appears that the hinges are inside the lid and fixed through the lid into some wooden blocks, so some plastic strip was glued to represent those.

 

TTWfBEfl.jpg 27Oy1kwl.jpg

 

I have some work to do at the front and then I can move onto the turrets.

 

Wayne

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On 15/11/2022 at 18:59, planecrazee said:

Absolutely fantastic work there Wayne - that scratch building is second to none!!!  With your skills you could just build a subject yourself from scratch and not bother with a kit :rofl:

 

Thank you very much, that's very kind of you, but to be honest I think I'm still in beginners class compared to some of the scratch building skills displayed on these pages. For one example check out the build by @Model Mate HERE.

I do quite enjoy that side of it but I don't think I would have the patience scratch a complete model.

 

 

On 16/11/2022 at 20:17, Ned said:

How are your boxes so square and perfect and not smudged with glue?

 

I just use these tools and various sanding sticks, plus you don't get to see the ones that don't make it. :D

 

yHvuujll.jpg

 

On 15/11/2022 at 09:08, edjbartos said:

Beautiful work Wayne, really nice. I'm enjoying seeing this being built up with all the additions and changes that you are making, keep going...

 

Ed

 

On 15/11/2022 at 11:32, Muchmirth said:

This keeps getting better. Lovely build and additions.

 

On 16/11/2022 at 19:49, mahavelona said:

The additions you are making here are fantastic.

 

Thanks Guys, that's really appreciated.

 

Wayne

 

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I have started to add some of the details to the front of the cars although the lights and radiator covers will be left off until after the painting, as will the fenders for the 1914 car. 

There is an armoured plate that covers the front axle. I felt that Meng's were too thick so replaced them with some thinner card.

 

ceV2fDUl.jpg

 

One of the more noticeable differences between the 1914 & 1920 cars is the position of the vision slots on the drivers visor. The slots on the 1914 car are at the same level where as the right hand slot on the 1920 car has been raised up.

Again I felt that the plastic used for these was too thick and as Meng only provide the later style of visor I cut two new ones from card.

On this particular 1914 car it looks like the crew have added some thicker plate, or possibly timber, for added protection.

 

ic5IyhPl.jpg

 

xburXGZl.jpg

Looking at the above photo I see that I have forgotten to add the hinges to the top of the visor.

 

Now onto the turrets.

The 1920 cars turret was built without any modifications apart from replacing some of the rivets. The rivets on the front and back of the curved surfaces are somewhat elongated,  I guess this due to the way the parts have to be removed from the moulds, so I punched out some .5mm discs and replaced the worst effected ones.

 

Another of the main differences between the 1914 & 20 cars is the height of the turrets. The 1914 turret is noticeably lower than that of the 1920 cars.

The photo below shows the different styles side by side.

 

 Xm5dpvBl.jpg

 

Sadly Meng only provides the later taller turret. I thought I had found the answer to the problem with an after market turret from Friendship models. This resin turret also comes with the earlier drivers visor.

I can't comment on the quality of the product though as, after a month of waiting, it never arrived.

So my only option was to modify the kit turret. This, unfortunately, isn't just a case of taking a couple of mm off of the bottom of the turret. The overall height isn't that much less however the angle of the slope is greater.

I couldn't find any reliable plans so the best I could do was to get approximate dimensions from photos. I had the diameter of the kit turret so I enlarged or reduced the photos to match that. I could then work out the rest of the dimensions using a digital Vernier caliper. Probably not the best way to do it but I think it's close enough.

 

   tLZKsmVl.jpg

 

The aperture for the Vickers MG appears to be squarer on the earlier turret but that may be unique to these particular cars.

Another modification my subject car had was the addition of a box on the roof section. 

Presumably headroom was a problem with the lower turret and I guess that is why the height was raised on the later ones. I can't tell from the photos I have whether this box was hinged, had a hatch in it or was just fixed. I suspect the later.

One other addition on these cars was the fitting of a hook assembly to the front of the chassis. I believe this was to enable the removal of barbed wire. The image below is the clearest I can find of it but I was wondering if this was fitted to any other vehicles

or was it a local addition. Maybe Peter @Kingsman could shed some light on it and the raised turret roof. 

 

692EMYUl.jpg

 

I decided I could fit the fenders and running boards to the 1920 car before painting.

They did have quite a nasty ejection pin mark inside them that could possibly be seen on the finished model, so these were removed with a bur and whilst I was at it I thinned down the edges as well.

 

VUwhbbol.jpg

 

 

BC72zHqh.jpg

 

I was getting to the point where I needed to think about getting some paint on them. Firstly I gave the modified turret a coat of Mr Surfacer 1000 to get rid of any sanding, glue and file marks and then both cars were primed with Mr Finishing Surfacer 1500

 

 R4IGeFKh.jpg

 

EMFeiIfh.jpg

 

The colours for the Caunter Scheme of the 1920 car are fairly well documented. I just need to check if the base colour would be Light Stone or Portland Stone and see if I can get the correct pattern from @Mike Starmer There are patterns in his book for cars but not specifically the Rolls Royce.

The 1914 car is a different matter. I doubt there is a documented account of the colours used on these  .

 

zyBSH6il.jpg

 

  M2HCuk2l.jpg

 

1WGo2zhl.jpg

 

These cars were photographed in Arras in April 1917 and these seem to be the only two photographed in this scheme. There could be more of course but by this time trench warfare meant that there was limited uses for armoured cars on the Western Front so they were a rarity.

The pattern on these cars isn't dissimilar to the Solomon Scheme that was seen on Mk.I Tanks in August/ September 1916. The toned down version of this was most likely Ochre, Brown and Green over the base Grey  and often each colour was separated by a thin black line.

 

Hpuah0Yl.jpg

I really must finish that kit.

 

However there only seems to be three colours used on these cars and the scheme was phased out by December in favour of a 'mud brown colour'. 

These cars have also been given a coating of a mineral substance known as Uralite which was believed to absorb the impact of bullets. Not something I had heard of before and I'm not sure how this would affect colours or lustre. Looks like I will need to do some more research or ask Peter @Kingsman again. 😁

 

Wayne

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Those are the only images I've seen of the car with the barbed wire or barricade hook, as it is believed to be.  So I'd have to say unique.  Bearing in mind that armoured cars were limited to roads and tracks with a firm surface, I would say barricade hook rather than barbed wire.  An armoured car on skinny tyres wouldn't have the grunt or grip to pull any length of wire.

 

As for Solomon colours, like all WW1 colours it's all a bit sketchy.  But on the MkI tank shown there was probably no "base grey".  Although it has been believed that MkIs were grey, it now appears that they were actually finished in Fosters' commercial Brunswick Green as that was available and the contract did not specify a colour.  The R-Rs however would have been grey.  So I think we're seeing grey, green and brown there with black edging.  The brown would be Service Brown, frequently discussed here.  A slightly greener shade of the WW2 SCC2 is probably about right.  The mix for green in the Handbook For Artificers would be a Brunswick green.

 

Caunter scheme could be either Portland Stone or Light Stone depending on what was available and the vehicle's existing base colour.  As the R-Rs were already there, Portland Stone is perhaps likely.  But monochrome imagery won't differentiate.  Plus Slate and Silver Grey.  Definitely no blue.........

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On 23/11/2022 at 07:28, edjbartos said:

More good work Wayne, I'm enjoying the progress of both builds, they are both looking fabulous...

 

Ed

 

On 22/11/2022 at 23:54, Kingsman said:

Those are the only images I've seen of the car with the barbed wire or barricade hook, as it is believed to be.  So I'd have to say unique.  Bearing in mind that armoured cars were limited to roads and tracks with a firm surface, I would say barricade hook rather than barbed wire.  An armoured car on skinny tyres wouldn't have the grunt or grip to pull any length of wire.

 

As for Solomon colours, like all WW1 colours it's all a bit sketchy.  But on the MkI tank shown there was probably no "base grey".  Although it has been believed that MkIs were grey, it now appears that they were actually finished in Fosters' commercial Brunswick Green as that was available and the contract did not specify a colour.  The R-Rs however would have been grey.  So I think we're seeing grey, green and brown there with black edging.  The brown would be Service Brown, frequently discussed here.  A slightly greener shade of the WW2 SCC2 is probably about right.  The mix for green in the Handbook For Artificers would be a Brunswick green.

 

Caunter scheme could be either Portland Stone or Light Stone depending on what was available and the vehicle's existing base colour.  As the R-Rs were already there, Portland Stone is perhaps likely.  But monochrome imagery won't differentiate.  Plus Slate and Silver Grey.  Definitely no blue.........

 

On 23/11/2022 at 07:32, Geo1966 said:

Great work Wayne. As others have said, its really good to see the two versions being built together to highlight the differences.

 

George

 

On 23/11/2022 at 07:44, Jasper dog said:

Brilliant modelling Wayne, superb attention to detail.

Absolutely masterclass,  both in modelling and history. :like:

 

Atb

Darryl 

 

On 23/11/2022 at 18:56, Courageous said:

Great stuff Wayne (& Peter), will be using this thread for when I get round to doing my 1/72 versions.

 

Stuart

 

Once again, thank you all for your help and encouragement. It's very much appreciated.

 

Wayne.

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Whilst I was pondering on how to tackle the paintwork I thought I would have a look at the wheels.

I had originally planed to use the wheels supplied by Meng on the 1920 car but I was a little concerned by their use of rubber for the tyre. The detail itself isn't too bad but they are flexible and I'm not sure how well they would take paint plus they also seem to attract dust. The other problem is that there is no way to give the impression of the weight of the car by flattening or bulging the bottom of the tyre.

YkbAXgql.jpg

I wanted to get a set of the DEF Model wheels but unfortunately nobody in the UK seems to have stock of them so I ordered the FC Model Trend wheels. I have to say I am really unimpressed with the quality of this set and would say it was a complete waste of £20.  Not the first time I have been disappointed with their products.  The detail on the front face is fine but large sections of the tread pattern is completely missing and the surface has quite a rough texture to it. The inside of the hubs have no detail at all.

 

 ns2YxV8h.jpg

I felt my only option was to order the DEF wheels from Europe, I'm so glad I did as these wheels are superb. Although they are the same price as the FC Model Trend wheels there really is no comparison..

 

huxaww2h.jpg

For the 1914 car Meng provide two halves of a plastic tyre and a photoetched set of spokes which is sandwiched between them. @Bertie McBoatface made an excellent tutorial on how to assemble them in his build log HERE .

 

c0OUyKvl.jpg

They do look great but looking at photos of the actual car I felt that the tyres look a little too chunky and the spokes could be finer.

 

SvpuUhil.jpg

 

It just so happened that I had the Copper State Lanchester sitting on my bench and the wheels look very similar to the Rolls Royce ones and size wise they are exactly the same.

 

 vzLd9Zll.jpg

Definitely an improvement but I had ordered a set of Copper State Models replacement wheels for the Lanchester and these are fantastic. Not cheap but when you see them you can see why.

 

HhTxADal.jpg

They are soo delicate, I just hope I can adapt them to fit.

Here they are all together for comparison.

 

 d4dlhXch.jpg

 

Hopefully next update will show some paint on the cars.

 

Wayne

 

 

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On 28/11/2022 at 20:54, Mark Oddy said:

Fantastic build with some amazing skills with the scratch building. If I live to 100 I don’t think I would ever be that skilled!

 

Thanks Mark, that's very kind of you. 

 

On 29/11/2022 at 15:50, Maginot said:

Very nice WW1 camouflage scheme you are pursuing.

 

I'm hoping to make a start on it soon, fingers crossed I haven't bitten off more than I can chew.

 

6 hours ago, mahavelona said:

Those Copper state wheels look amazing. 

Where did you order them from I was not aware these were available?

 

They are lovely, I ordered them direct from Copper State, although they're not cheap I feel they will make a big difference to the finished model.

 

Wayne

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