David Mooney Posted October 29, 2022 Share Posted October 29, 2022 Hello all, I'm just about to start an F-16 block 50 and wondered about the paint schemes, my main issue he is when did the Have Glass coatings come into effect? I have the base colours but were the delivered with the HG coating or was this a further enhanced paint added later on? Thanks for the replies Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard E Posted October 29, 2022 Share Posted October 29, 2022 Hi Dave If I've understood your question correctly, the Have Glass scheme was first introduced to the F-16 fleet in 2012. Supporting reference: here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Mooney Posted October 29, 2022 Author Share Posted October 29, 2022 Cheers Richard, I'm aware of the 5th generation of paints but wanted to know when the first Have Glass schemes come in. Many pictures I've seen of early block 50's look to have a 'standard' paint without the reflective Have Glass coating...but this could be a picture thing. So, its a question of when said Have Glass schemes come in, the 5th generation H/G is a lot darker than the early versions and came along a bit later. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dov Posted October 29, 2022 Share Posted October 29, 2022 Hallo Are aircraft with this paint operative? Happy modelling Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slater Posted October 29, 2022 Share Posted October 29, 2022 When I was USAF Ammo back in the 1980's at Nellis AFB, I recall one day loading some inert Mk 82's on a trailer for delivery to the flightline. A couple of the bombs had "HAVE GLASS" stenciled on the sides. At the time none of us munitions crews knew what that meant, as these were being re-used from a previous project. This would have been in the 1985-1987 timeframe, so HAVE GLASS has been around a while. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seawinder Posted October 29, 2022 Share Posted October 29, 2022 Pretty sure there are plenty of photos of Block 50s to be found with the standard two-color paint scheme. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Mooney Posted October 29, 2022 Author Share Posted October 29, 2022 2 minutes ago, Seawinder said: Pretty sure there are plenty of photos of Block 50s to be found with the standard two-color paint scheme. right, so is the two toners Have Glass? The three toners standard paints? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CT7567 Posted October 30, 2022 Share Posted October 30, 2022 (edited) 8 hours ago, David Mooney said: right, so is the two toners Have Glass? The three toners standard paints? The change from three-tone to two-tone grays was unrelated to the Have Glass RAM coatings (at least as far as any visible characteristics and publicly available information is concerned, anyway). AFAIK the deletion of FS36375 from USAF F-16s was strictly to simplify painting, as the visual difference between the lighter two grays in the Hill Gray scheme is neglible in practice due to the shade and shadows of the airframe. Hill Gray II using only FS 36118 over FS 36270 was first adopted on Phantoms when still in USAF service, but started on new-build and depot repaints for F-16s around the mid-1990s. It's notable that other countries continued to use the 3-tone scheme, even after some also began using Have Glass finishes. "Have Glass" is actually a multi-stage program that has involved several widely varied subsets for different means of reducing the F-16's signature on radar (and possibly IR as well). The earliest phase, testing for which would have occurred circa mid-80s at Nellis per @Slater's observation, included the "tinted" canopies, which are a metallic film specially composed to shield certain EM wavelengths that would otherwise give strong returns from components inside the cockpit. I would speculate that the "Have Glass" inert loads were probably labeled as such so the test program could ensure their test airframe(s) had the same payloads in each test hop and didn't give a different radar return because one Mk 82 training round had a rougher coat of paint than another. To Mr. Mooney's original question, per most open-source material indicates the Have Glass "coating" was introduced as one of several elements under Have Glass II, starting at least as early as 2005-2006. The paint treatment was not immediately visible on newly repainted airframes the way "Raptor Sheen" is visible on a brand new F-22, so it took some time and weathering before it started to be noticeable in photos/by modelers. It was noticeably used on SEAD tasked F-16 units such as the 52nd Wing at Spangdahlem, but has also been observed on other NATO Vipers including Denmark's F-16AMs and Italy's secondhand F-16ADFs. It was never adopted fleetwide even by USAF active-duty units, so there have continued to be F-16s of all current-service blocks wearing standard Hill II grays. As noted above by @Richard E circa 2012 the USAF started adopting a new darker gray finish (apparently matching FS36170, as used on the F-35) that has been publicly identified as Have Glass V (I don't know what Have Glass IIi or IV were, and probably don't want to ask too loudly). The HGV finish doesn't seem to have any obvious metallic sheen or unusual weathering properties. Good summary article on Have Glass history which includes details that could probably yield much more information with some Google-fu here: https://www.key.aero/article/have-glass-making-f-16-less-observable Edited October 30, 2022 by CT7567 clarification added 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seawinder Posted October 30, 2022 Share Posted October 30, 2022 What CT7567 said. When I mentioned "two-color," I was indeed referring to the 36118/36270 Hill Gray II scheme. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Mooney Posted October 30, 2022 Author Share Posted October 30, 2022 Good information CT, thank you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scotthldr Posted October 31, 2022 Share Posted October 31, 2022 I first became aware of the original HAVE GLASS in 2003, when 340Mira of the Hellenic AF started to take delivery of their Blk52’s at Souda. Although it doesn’t give a definite answer it gives an approx timescale to work from. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CT7567 Posted October 31, 2022 Share Posted October 31, 2022 19 hours ago, scotthldr said: I first became aware of the original HAVE GLASS in 2003, when 340Mira of the Hellenic AF started to take delivery of their Blk52’s at Souda. Although it doesn’t give a definite answer it gives an approx timescale to work from. It may take a while to access photos I have archived to verify, but with that timeframe in mind I looked back at some photos online and *may* be seeing Have Glass on Spanghdalem SEAD-roled F-16Cs as early as the 2000 RIAT. I remember they looked "grubby" compared to their brethren from the 31st at Aviano, but can't confirm if they have the special coating or are just due for depot repaint (post-Allied Force). Terrible quality photo here, but the vertical tail and forward fuselage seem like a possibility. https://www.f-16.net/g3/f-16-photos/album38/album70/aga For the 20th FW at Shaw, SC (another SEAD unit) their freshly painted airframes didn't seem to show any signs of the coating when I saw them up close circa 2001, but again I'll have to dig up the files to confirm as back then it wasn't something I knew to look for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scotthldr Posted October 31, 2022 Share Posted October 31, 2022 I would tend to agree that that photo clearly shows HAVE GLASS, what is also of even more significant interest is the a/c is still in the 3 Grey scheme. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now