Anyone know anything about British LRDG jeeps?

[Melchy1914]

Hello folks

I recently bought Homefront Miniatures LRDG jeep crew,with a view to doing a desert dio.When it comes to the actual Jeeps i know Dragon Models have reissued their kit.However, i have a couple of the Bronco Models Jeep kits and was wondering if they could be converted to the LRDG version.Obviously there is that big (condenser?) thingy on the front and the chopped grill but what else would i need to do? Any help would be appreciated.Thanks.

[malpaso]

LRDG called jeeps “Bantams” as the earliest of the small US 4x4s in Western Desert were such and the name stuck in that theatre.  Bantam probably also appealed with its small but feisty connotations.

This website should be a good lead in for you.  

https://lrdg.hegewisch.net/willys_mb.html

From what I have read the Bantams weren’t the favoured vehicle as the LRDG role called for more supplies for longer missions so they might be just for commanders and liaison.   
A google of “LRDG Bantam” will bring up a few period photos, but also lots of recreations, replicating an LRDG easier and smaller (cooler?) than a Chev if you could even find one.  Most Period photos of patrols are the Chevy type truck which was most commonly used, the 2wd is less of an issue if driven properly than that 4wd trucks of the time needed twice as much fuel, occupying store space better used for other items.

 

[Kingsman]

Kit-wise you might have been better off with the Dragon SAS Jeep as it has many more useful parts.  The old Tamiya one is not worth bothering with.

 

Are you sure you're not confusing LRDG with SAS?  SAS were the major Jeep users whereas LRDG preferred 30cwt trucks as their missions tended to be longer duration needing more supplies.  Each Patrol usually had a 15cwt Pilot Car for the patrol commander, again essentially a 15cwt truck.  That was about as small as they went.  LRDG's role was essentially long range reconnaissance whereas SAS were a strike force, usually with single-objective missions.

 

LRDG looked at Jeeps again after seeing SAS' success with them.  At times they also looked at M3 Scout Cars and M3 Light Tanks.  But I'm not certain they made much use of them.  Jeeps that is.  If you search "LRDG Jeep" on Google you will find images, but picking LRDG from SAS and PPA requires some interpretation.  LRDG will usually be more lightly armed and more lightly stowed.  But to circle back to your original points, yes they would have the condenser and chopped grille.

 

These all look like LRDG.  Top one is said to be Guards Patrol, 2nd one Y Patrol, 3rd one is attributed as LRDG by National Army Museum.

 

 

[malpaso]

I found only two jeeps in whole of Lloyd Owen’s “Providence their Guide”, both in the background of a Chevy 30cwt crash.  The 30cwt (1.5 ton) was the mainstay of LRDG, generally the Chevy but earlier the Ford 4wd, but these were too heavy on fuel; later reinstated to use when Chevy types weren’t available.  But certainly LRDG patrols did sometimes include one or two jeeps.

 

Note in a couple of the photos above the front tyres of jeeps are normal road tread rather than usual jeep bar tread tyres.  Apparently the normal tread didn’t carve into the sand as badly.

[dcrfan]

I have just received DEFModel DW30013 'UK Willys SAS wheel set sagged' with normal road treads. Designed to Tamiya they look very good.  

[Kingsman]

LRDG undoubtedly had some Jeeps.  But not that many.  Maybe 1 per patrol, maybe more for some missions. Because of their lighter weight and better power to weight they did not have the same drawbacks as the 4WD CMPs.  They did give a stealthier recce capability to a patrol and also a fast strike capability.  Both of these tasks being difficult for the trucks.  Recce was often dismounted and strike was often by dismounted ambush with the trucks positioned for bug-out.  It was probably the strike capability demonstrated by SAS that attracted LRDG back to the Jeep again.  But they were too small to carry everything to sustain themselves for many patrol durations and needed a degree of "mother ship" support from patrol trucks.  One LRDG idiosyncrasy was the side-mounted spare wheel sometimes seen, something not done by SAS who mounted 2 spares on the rear.

 

Truck-wise, LRDG mostly used Chevrolets.  But more because they were available rather than any inherent suitability.  Chevy WBs at first with WA pilot cars.  Then came the ill-advised venture with 4WD CMPs - ironically Fords rather than Chevys.  Looking for something else the Canadian Chevy 1533X2 with Gotfredson low-side body came up.  These had been specially ordered for carrying ammunition, had low-sided but strong bodies because ammunition is dense and you can't pile it high with a 30cwt payload, were already open-cabbed and equipped with desert tyres.  Pilot cars in that era were mostly if not all Ford 01Cs

[modelldoc]

Decades before Matchbox made the set:

 

https://www.flickr.com/photos/21603181@N08/30299298835/in/dateposted/

 

later issues are from Revell

 

modelldoc

[Melchy1914]

Sorry for the late response.Been preoccupied with car troubles.Maybe i should buy a jeep!

Thanks for all the info guys,you lot certainly know your onions.Actually i was thinking of doing a scene with both a jeep and a Chevrolet (?) Truck.I have the tamiya one i built decades ago and was thinking of redoing her,and adding the Bronco jeep to the scene..An extra thanks for the links and photos,they will certainly come in useful for when i do the dio.I will add that the resin figures from Homefront are lovely so i can't wait to have a crack at it.Now,dare i ask,can anyone advise on any accurate  colors/camo/paints?

[Kingsman]

In that time period Light Stone 61 would have been the normal base colour.  AFAIK the Chevrolets were factory-finished in that colour as they were a special build for N Africa.  The Jeeps would have been repainted in Light Stone over US OD, so there would have been wear-through where boots etc went.  Areas such as under wheel arches, under the bonnet etc were frequently not repainted but left in OD.  There is a lot of conjecture about their colours.  It is conceivable that some of both trucks and Jeeps could have been Desert Pink Z1 but monochrome photos would not show this. 

 

They are also sometimes modelled and shown in artwork as being disruptively painted.  Jeeps would have been too small to warrant disruptive painting: officially, anyway.  Many of the original Chevrolet WBs certainly were painted with broad stripes of what was probably a brown but period evidence of disruptive painting of the later 1533X2s is thin to say the least.  Almost every photo is a plain colour.  I found only the 2 below.  Models showing blues, greys and pinks are almost certainly wrong.  There never was a blue in the desert: that's a long-standing Caunter scheme confusion.  There was Slate, a greenish grey, or Silver Grey.  But either of these over Light Stone would have looked very much like the later version of German camouflage in N Africa and might have led to mistaken ID - or might have been an advantage behind German lines.  Pink over Light Stone would not have given any real contrast at any distance and under dust.  We understood the need for high contrast disruptive painting - to disguise, not to hide.  Any disruptive painting would have been hard-edged.  If it were me I would go with plain Light Stone for both truck and Jeep.

 

As for which paint brands are "best" or "correct" for these colours, that is an entirely other discussion.

 

This one does seem to be camouflaged, by contrast with the tyres probably brown again but could be Slate or Silver Grey.

 

This Breda Gun Truck also seems to be camouflaged in a low-contrast scheme.  This could possibly be Desert Pink over Light Stone.