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Airfix Bf109E 1/72 (the old one)


dad's lad
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As I mentioned in a previous thread, I'm attempting to build subjects that Airfix kits covered in my dim and distant past but using newer kits and where necessary aftermarket decals whilst accurizing the markings.  My first on the bench is the P-51 Fools Paradise IV and my next one will be this:

 

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I have both ICM and Airfix kits to choose from.

 

Airfix's instructions don't identify the unit, but I believe that it is SG.2. So on to my questions:

 

There's not a lot of pictures that I can find online but those that I can seem to show a yellow band around the tail where the "F" is in the picture. Should I need this?

All pictures show the individual aircraft letter to be dark (black?) with a white outline, is the Airfix suggestion of a white letter possible?

Airfix suggest 70/71 upper colours and I'm assuming a mottle of 02, is this a fair assumption?

Yellow wing tips or not and if so, how far inboard?

 

If anyone can help it would be appreciated or better still, if anyone knows of an original image that Airfix based their markings on even better.

 

Regards,

Clive.

 

 

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The unit was more-likely II.(S)/LG 2 [the I(J)/LG 2 was a fighter unit, and later became the I/JG 77].  The 'Mickey Mouse with pistol and hatchet' badge originated with the 4.(S)/LG 2, on their Hs 123s during the Polish campaign.  The color of the aircraft's letter varies by Staffel, the usual sequencing being white, black, yellow for first, second and third Staffeln.  A fourth Staffel would use blue.

 

The yellow band was applied for the campaign against the Soviet Union (beginning in late-June 1941).  Bf 109Es were still being used by ground-attack / close-support units in late 1942, in Russia and in North Africa.  The upper surface camouflage would be RLM 02/RLM 71, and later RLM 74/RLM 75.  Winter-white on some during snowy months, RLM 79 in North Africa. The extent of the yellow beneath the wingtips could vary by unit.

 

I don't use a photo-hosting service, so cannot insert examples here, but if you choose to send me a PM with your email, I can forward some examples 'not on the web.'

 

Enjoy your stroll down Memory Lane,

GRM

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Years before I got a lot of these kit for nothing, se what I have done:

 

https://www.flickr.com/photos/21603181@N08/39514546094/in/dateposted/

 

https://www.flickr.com/photos/21603181@N08/39514546094/in/dateposted/

 

https://www.flickr.com/photos/21603181@N08/39020469390/in/photostream/

 

https://www.flickr.com/photos/21603181@N08/26986884867/in/photostream/

 

https://www.flickr.com/photos/21603181@N08/41980587202/in/photostream/

 

https://www.flickr.com/photos/21603181@N08/42388717551/in/photostream/

 

https://www.flickr.com/photos/21603181@N08/29426361718/in/photostream/

 

https://www.flickr.com/photos/21603181@N08/43489795531/in/photostream/

 

https://www.flickr.com/photos/21603181@N08/44955600281/in/photostream/

 

https://www.flickr.com/photos/21603181@N08/45364183474/in/photostream/

 

https://www.flickr.com/photos/21603181@N08/46479811872/in/photostream/

 

https://www.flickr.com/photos/21603181@N08/47137828682/in/photostream/

 

https://www.flickr.com/photos/21603181@N08/47447473222/in/photostream/

 

https://www.flickr.com/photos/21603181@N08/48090987862/in/photostream/

 

https://www.flickr.com/photos/21603181@N08/48629788088/in/photostream/

 

https://www.flickr.com/photos/21603181@N08/49403417446/in/photostream/

 

https://www.flickr.com/photos/21603181@N08/49998453956/in/photostream/

 

https://www.flickr.com/photos/21603181@N08/50053834227/in/photostream/

 

https://www.flickr.com/photos/21603181@N08/50179685172/in/photostream/

 

https://www.flickr.com/photos/21603181@N08/51287746768/in/photostream/

 

modelldoc

 

 

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I'd assume the wing tip yellow to be (at full scale) 50 cms wide (that is ~6.94mm in 1/72).

But that is just my best guess based on many photos and not this particular aircraft.

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17 hours ago, G.R.Morrison said:

The unit was more-likely II.(S)/LG 2 [the I(J)/LG 2 was a fighter unit, and later became the I/JG 77].  The 'Mickey Mouse with pistol and hatchet' badge originated with the 4.(S)/LG 2, on their Hs 123s during the Polish campaign.  The color of the aircraft's letter varies by Staffel, the usual sequencing being white, black, yellow for first, second and third Staffeln.  A fourth Staffel would use blue.

 

The yellow band was applied for the campaign against the Soviet Union (beginning in late-June 1941).  Bf 109Es were still being used by ground-attack / close-support units in late 1942, in Russia and in North Africa.  The upper surface camouflage would be RLM 02/RLM 71, and later RLM 74/RLM 75.  Winter-white on some during snowy months, RLM 79 in North Africa. The extent of the yellow beneath the wingtips could vary by unit.

 

I don't use a photo-hosting service, so cannot insert examples here, but if you choose to send me a PM with your email, I can forward some examples 'not on the web.'

 

Enjoy your stroll down Memory Lane,

GRM

Many thanks for the comprehensive reply, I'll be in touch shortly.

 

Clive

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22 hours ago, dad's lad said:

There's not a lot of pictures that I can find online but those that I can seem to show a yellow band around the tail where the "F" is in the picture. Should I need this?

 

As already explanined by others, yellow fuselage band was a standard recognition measure for all axis aircraft flying over the Eastern front in WWII.

However, yellow nose + yellow rudder combination (as depicted on the boxart) is accurate for combined invasion of Yugoslavia and Greece in April '41, where Schlachtflieger 109E units certainly did take a part in.

 

In some cases, even a yellow band and/or yellow wingtips were added (unrelated to the easten front), just for that extra bit of safety (as both Yugoslav and Greek airforce used many German-built aircraft types)

https://www.asisbiz.com/il2/Bf-109E/JG77-Balkans.html

 

Some of these machines continued straight to the Eastern front in June, without a yellow band being added to the fuselage:

https://www.asisbiz.com/il2/Bf-109E/LG2-EF.html

 

 

22 hours ago, dad's lad said:

Yellow wing tips or not and if so, how far inboard?

 

Yellow wing tips were an extra non-standard measure (especially on upper surfaces), so this varied from unit to unit.

I'd advise finding a photo of a particular airfcart You have marking for, and using it as a source.

 

Regards,

Aleksandar

Edited by warhawk
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1 hour ago, warhawk said:

 

As already explanined by others, yellow fuselage band was a standard recognition measure for all axis aircraft flying over the Eastern front in WWII.

However, yellow nose + yellow rudder combination (as depicted on the boxart) is accurate for combined invasion of Yugoslavia and Greece in April '41, where Schlachtflieger 109E units certainly did take a part in.

 

In some cases, even a yellow band and/or yellow wingtips were added (unrelated to the easten front), just for that extra bit of safety (as both Yugoslav and Greek airforce used many German-built aircraft types)

https://www.asisbiz.com/il2/Bf-109E/JG77-Balkans.html

 

Some of these machines continued straight to the Eastern front in June, without a yellow band being added to the fuselage:

https://www.asisbiz.com/il2/Bf-109E/LG2-EF.html

 

 

 

Yellow wing tips were an extra non-standard measure (especially on upper surfaces), so this varied from unit to unit.

I'd advise finding a photo of a particular airfcart You have marking for, and using it as a source.

 

Regards,

Aleksandar

 

Many thanks for those lovely reference pictures. As I intend to make the subject of the Airfix kit, the only reference that I have regarding wing tip yellow is their instructions which show just the absolute tips as being painted.

 

Clive

 

 

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Judging from the bombers involved in the Balkans campaign, the elevators would also be yellow.  I've not seen a photo of a Bf.109 in this campaign that shows this - or indeed one that clearly shows otherwise,

 

This aside, the main colours would not be 70/71 but 71/02, or even 74/75.70/71 on fighters was largely replaced over the winter 1939/40.

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Mr. Boak,

 

Yellow elevators:  there are photos of III/JG 27 and JG 54 Bf 109Es with this during April / May 1941.  There's also a series of (at least five) photos of a smashed 8./JG 77 machine, "schwarze 7" with large yellow wingtips, top and bottom, and horizontal stabilizers and elevators with the outer 2/3 in yellow, top and bottom.  But, as you say, there are also plenty (or, most) "otherwise."

 

GRM

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