Mig15 away to the pyramids

[Eis9]

Here I am, again looking for photographic sources for this Mig15 away to the pyramids, the profile is of a Mig 15 Eduard that I would like to do, but I have not found any reliable source, you can help me

[exdraken]

1 hour ago, Eis9 said:

Here I am, again looking for photographic sources for this Mig15 away to the pyramids, the profile is of a Mig 15 Eduard that I would like to do, but I have not found any reliable source, you can help me
 

have you checked the Arab MiG series of books (Tom Cooper., Harpia Publishing)? there is also a newer, Helion published series on the topic I believe!

I can probably have a look later....

 

Edit

after a quick look, I did find MiG-15s and -17s of that era with similar markings, if the checkerboards were green is hard to decide on those photos... and if chckerboard and bat was carried at th same time by -15s is also not to decide for me...

 

so, go for it if you like the colors! hardly anyone will poof you wrong... (or yes, and we all will learn a thing? )

 

 

 

[modelldoc]

The MiG-17 Fresco from Kovozavody Prostejov - KP has Egyptian markings too.

Have a look on the instruction sheet here:

 

https://www.scalemates.com/kits/kp-07-mig-17-pf--239233

 

The have the bat  in red too.

 

modelldoc

[exdraken]

1 hour ago, modelldoc said:

The MiG-17 Fresco from Kovozavody Prostejov - KP has Egyptian markings too.

Have a look on the instruction sheet here:

 

https://www.scalemates.com/kits/kp-07-mig-17-pf--239233

 

The have the bat  in red too.

 

modelldoc

yes, and of the -17s there are several (not very favourable) photos 

https://swarajyamag.com/magazine/six-days-which-created-a-new-israel-and-the-middle-east

https://cosmolearning.org/images/six-day-war-destroyed-egyptian-plane/

 

but in 1967 the MiG-15 was already rather outdated (the -17 also only was a rather good dogfighter, not an attacker due to lack of range and firepower, but that is another story)

but having these MiG-17 photos, you can assume that the MiG-15 wore similar colors when in those squadrons. proof of course is another thing  

 

Harpia Book and some drawings:

https://www.worthpoint.com/worthopedia/arab-migs-vol-mig-15s-mig-17s-1955-1918736105

 

[GiampieroSilvestri]

Here are two pictures of Egyptian airforce Mig-17s found doing a internet search.

 

Saluti

 

Giampiero

 

 

https://abload.de/img/mig-172edilw.jpg

 

 

 

 

Edited November 14, 2022 by Julien
NO copyrighted photos

[GiampieroSilvestri]

23 minutes ago, exdraken said:

yes, and of the -17s there are several (not very favourable) photos 

https://swarajyamag.com/magazine/six-days-which-created-a-new-israel-and-the-middle-east

https://cosmolearning.org/images/six-day-war-destroyed-egyptian-plane/

 

but in 1967 the MiG-15 was already rather outdated (the -17 also only was a rather good dogfighter, not an attacker due to lack of range and firepower, but that is another story)

but having these MiG-17 photos, you can assume that the MiG-15 wore similar colors when in those squadrons. proof of course is another thing  

 

Harpia Book and some drawings:

https://www.worthpoint.com/worthopedia/arab-migs-vol-mig-15s-mig-17s-1955-1918736105

 

Due to the "lack of firepower" with two 23mm and a 37mm cannon?

 

Saluti

 

Giampiero+Christian

Edited October 24, 2022 by GiampieroSilvestri

[Dmitriy1967]

Model

MiG-15

[Dmitriy1967]

This photo confirms that the coloring is not a fantasy, but actually existed.

 

MiG-17

 

 

[Dmitriy1967]

And why is everyone talking about Egypt? It seemed to me that in the first photo in this topic, a plane with Syrian identification marks.

Or am I wrong?

[modelldoc]

23 minutes ago, Dmitriy1967 said:

And why is everyone talking about Egypt? It seemed to me that in the first photo in this topic, a plane with Syrian identification marks.

Or am I wrong?

Yes and no,

 

It was the United Arab Republic with Egypt and Syria,

have look:

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Arab_Republic

 

modelldoc

[Diego]

It seems, that in case of this profiles many things were simply mixed together:

 

- In summer 1958, with the creation of the United Arab Republic ( a political union between Egypt and Syria - the last one now called "Eastern Province") new red-white black roundels with 2 green stars were introduced, replacing the previous green-white-green Egyptian roundels.

- The quick identification bands were typical Egyptian markings and were introduced during the late phase of the 1948 war with Israel.

- These were black & white on Spitfires, Furies and Meteors but black only on Vampires, MiG-15bis , MiG-17F, MiG-19 and MiG-21F-13.

- Re. checkerboards, these were used by the UARAF acro-team and were red on aluminium surfaces....and, the most important, were applied on MiG-17Fs. These marking were used even after the dissolution of the team and could therefore be seen on MiG-17Fs used in combat and destroyed during the June 1967 war.

- Re bat. there were several bat designs, in red and yellow...the problem is that EAF/UARAF MiG-15s and MiG-17Fs had also small serial applied under the cockpit, and the bird on the Eduard profile is simply missing the serial.

 

 

Here you have an alternative, EAF MiG-15bis N° 1990 wearing the attractive "dragon-snake" from EAF 20th Squadron in 1958, based on the newest available data ( option 5)

It is also worth noting that these MiG-15bis were armed with 8 Sakr rockets, like the MiG-17F wreck posted by Dmitriy.

In summer 1958, N° 1990 also got the new UARAF roundels...

 

 

available a. o. here: https://www.hannants.co.uk/product/HD72022 + https://www.hannants.co.uk/product/HD48009

  

 

 

 

 

 

Edited November 16, 2022 by Diego

[GiampieroSilvestri]

You are absolutely correct Dmitriy!

It is Syrian and as said above Egyptian.

 

Saluti

 

Giampiero

[exdraken]

If you are into MiG-17s because of markings, e.g. here:

http://www.modelmaker.com.pl/D48155-MiG-17-AROUND-THE-WORLD-ASIAN-FRESCO-PART-I/1561/

[Eis9]

So Eduard proposes a profile of fantasy, since the only photos are of the Mig 17, and also of the wrong color.

[exdraken]

7 minutes ago, Eis9 said:

So Eduard proposes a profile of fantasy, since the only photos are of the Mig 17, and also of the wrong color.

Maybe fantasy, maybe not!?

Those profiles flote around in many places  not sure if Eduard were the first ones to come up with the green checkerboard either 😉

Color pics of this era are rare... 

[Dmitriy1967]

13 hours ago, modelldoc said:

It was the United Arab Republic with Egypt and Syria,

 

 

I'm a little ashamed, I didn't know that. I need to learn history better.

Thank you!

[Diego]

On 10/25/2022 at 12:32 PM, GiampieroSilvestri said:

You are absolutely correct Dmitriy!

It is Syrian and as said above Egyptian.

 

Saluti

 

Giampiero

There is an interesting story about SYRIAN MiG-15s:

Syria received their first MiG-15bis shortly before the 1956 "Suez crisis", but, as Syria laked airfield suitable for fast jets, these Migs-15 were delivered to....Egypt, where they were used to train Syrian pilots ( These birds had the green-white-black Syrian roundels with 3 red stars applied in the usual six positions, but no black id-stripes as used by the EAF, and small black serials starting with "901" applied on the nose and on the tail).

However, their life under Syrian ownership was very short, as around 50% of their MiG-15bis  was destroyed during the Anglo-French-Israeli attacks in October 1956.  Some time after the War, the surviving examples were donated to the Egyptian AF and, after the creation of the UAR in 1958, integrated into the UARAF ( i.e. Egyptian AF) and repainted accordingly. In fact, most modern Syrian aircraft, like the DH Chipmunk trainers, for example, were taken to Egypt.

Then, till the Syrian secession in 1961, Egyptian units were delegated to the "Eastern Province" on a rotating basis.  Only after this date, the Syrian Arab Air Force could be recreated, practically from scratch, using some aircraft left by the Egyptians, like some MiG-17Fs, two Il-28Rs, etc. Therefore, the Syrian AF MiG-17F never got (the pre-UAR) green-white-black SyAF roundels, only the new ones ( red-white-black with 3 green stars) used till 1972-73.

 

Greetings

Diego

Edited October 27, 2022 by Diego

[Eis9]

On 25/10/2022 at 10:06, Diego said:

It seems, that in case of this profiles many things were simply mixed together:

 

- In summer 1958, with the creation of the United Arab Republic ( a political union between Egypt and Syria - the last one now called "Eastern Province") new red-white black roundels with 2 green stars were introduced, replacing the previous green-white-green Egyptian roundels.

- The quick identification bands were typical Egyptian markings and were introduced during the late phase of the 1948 war with Israel.

- These were black & white on Spitfires, Furies and Meteors but black only on Vampires, MiG-15bis , MiG-17F, MiG-19 and MiG-21F-13.

- Re. checkerboards, these were used by the UARAF acro-team and were red on aluminium surfaces....and, the most important, were applied on MiG-17Fs. These marking were used even after the dissolution of the team and could therefore be seen on MiG-17Fs used in combat and destroyed during the June 1967 war.

- Re bat. there were several bat designs, in red and yellow...the problem is that EAF/UARAF MiG-15s and MiG-17Fs had also small serial applied under the cockpit, and the bird on the Eduard profile is simply missing the serial.

 

 

Here you have an alternative, EAF MiG-15bis N° 1990 wearing the attractive "dragon-snake" from EAF 20th Squadron in 1958, based on the newest available data ( option 5)

It is also worth noting that these MiG-15bis were armed with 8 Sakr rockets, like the MiG-17F wreck posted by Dmitriy.

In summer 1958, N° 1990 also got the new UARAF roundels...

 

 

available a. o. here: https://www.hannants.co.uk/product/HD72022 + https://www.hannants.co.uk/product/HD48009

...even if the BiG H pic shows an older version of this sheet. 

 

 

 

 

in the end I ordered the decal sheet from hannants, which will collect my dear friend about to return to Italy

 

 

 

[Fukuryu]

I've never seen photographic evidence of a bat decoration on Egyptian's MiG-15 or -17 (I am not saying it doesn't exist, just I haven't seen it), but my theory is that the sphinx in the pic below (scanned at low resolution and cropped from Osprey's "Arab-Israeli Wars 1947-1982") has been somehow confused for a bat and the mistake repeated ad nauseam. I'd be glad to be proven wrong!

 

Edited November 14, 2022 by Fukuryu

[MiG-Mech]

But this (I would say it's more like a bird) is also known.

[Fukuryu]

10 hours ago, MiG-Mech said:

But this (I would say it's more like a bird) is also known.

 

I've read it described as "winged leopard" also; still no pictorial proof of that particular bat (there were bat insignia but they were different and well documented).

[oggy4u]

Those are  nice illustrations of Egyptian Mig 15 and MiG-17's but I believe the smashed MiG on the ground with the flying Sphinx is a MiG-15 not a MiG-17  . There is another profile photo  of this burnt out MiG-15 which shows only 2 wing fences and no pitot tube on the left wing . MiG-17's had  pitot tubes at the end of both wings . That doesn't mean MiG-17's didn't have this marking . I cannot recall ever seeing the bat symbol on a MiG-15/17  though . 

[RidgeRunner]

On 11/19/2022 at 12:59 PM, Fukuryu said:

 

I've read it described as "winged leopard" also; still no pictorial proof of that particular bat (there were bat insignia but they were different and well documented).

It looks like a Vulture to me

[Diego]

18 hours ago, oggy4u said:

Those are  nice illustrations of Egyptian Mig 15 and MiG-17's but I believe the smashed MiG on the ground with the flying Sphinx is a MiG-15 not a MiG-17  . There is another profile photo  of this burnt out MiG-15 which shows only 2 wing fences and no pitot tube on the left wing . MiG-17's had  pitot tubes at the end of both wings . That doesn't mean MiG-17's didn't have this marking . I cannot recall ever seeing the bat symbol on a MiG-15/17  though . 

Well, the burnt out example is definitively a MiG-17F with afterburner. The airbrakes are typical for the MiG-17F. These are different in the MiG-17 Fresco A. The MiG-15bis and MiG-15 had also different airbrakes. 

Anyway, this is one of the MiG-17Fs used before the war by the UARAF acro team. They had red and blue checkerboards applied without white on their tails, and used them even after the dissolution of the team. There were no green checkers used.

The profiles unfortunately contain many other obvious mistakes, like id-bands, that were never green and are shown as much to narrow, etc. 

Edited November 28, 2022 by Diego