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Another Defiant Question


Olmec Head

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I was just looking at a walkaround of the RAF Museum Defiant and noticed it has an Amber nav light under fuselage just in front of the gunner escape hatch.  As I am trying to finish my 1/48 Airfix Defiant as a BoB era aircraft, I am perplexed as the model has no such light.  Did Airfix forget it or was it a later addition for the night fighter role?  Any help would be welcomed as it is a biggish detail to get wrong either way.

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27 minutes ago, Olmec Head said:

an Amber nav light under fuselage just in front of the gunner escape hatch.  As I am trying to finish my 1/48 Airfix Defiant as a BoB era aircraft, I am perplexed as the model has no such light.  Did Airfix forget it or was it a later addition for the night fighter role?  Any help would be welcomed as it is a biggish detail to get wrong either way.

It was standard on the Hurricane and Spitfire,  so I would assume the same for the Defiant. 

One for @AndyLwho has probably forgotten more about Defiants than I ever knew.

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The Mk. I does not have the identification lamps, but the Mk. II has them. The upward identification lamp is mounted at the top of the fuselage just forward of the fin, and the downward lamps is in the underside of the fuselage just forward of the service hatch.

No need to add the identification lamps to the Airfix kit which depicts the Mk. I.

 

Jun in Tokyo

https://www.flickr.com/photos/horaburo/8372406569/in/album-72157632492710747/

 

Edited by Junchan
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@Olmec Head Your post brings up an interesting point regarding the downward identification lamp. And I think it's purely a case that Airfix missed it. As to the assumption that the Mk I did not carry the downward lamp, and only the small one aft of the speed fairing on the upper fuselage does not match up with the pairing as fitted to other day fighters such as the Hurricane and Spitfire.

The prototype Defiant, K8310 had one fitted, as did the second, K8620. If you look carefully, you can see the location of the lamp as it shows as a small raised area. I have attached two images - the air to air show just shows the lamp ( to the left of the yellow line I've added ) and the other shows it in place albeit with a loose housing and dangling wire. To give some kind of timeframe, L7012 was on strength with 141 Squadron in May 1940.

TPPObXO.png

tythBjb.jpg

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4 hours ago, Junchan said:

The Mk. I does not have the identification lamps, but the Mk. II has them. The upward identification lamp is mounted at the top of the fuselage just forward of the fin, and the downward lamps is in the underside of the fuselage just forward of the service hatch.

No need to add the identification lamps to the Airfix kit which depicts the Mk. I.

 

Jun in Tokyo

https://www.flickr.com/photos/horaburo/8372406569/in/album-72157632492710747/

 

Thanks Junchan, it makes sense that the light was fitted for the MkII, however the walkabout photos were from N1671 which was a MkI.  That is why I thought it may be retrofitted later.

 

But the below posts suggest it was an original fit.

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1 hour ago, AndyL said:

@Olmec Head Your post brings up an interesting point regarding the downward identification lamp. And I think it's purely a case that Airfix missed it. As to the assumption that the Mk I did not carry the downward lamp, and only the small one aft of the speed fairing on the upper fuselage does not match up with the pairing as fitted to other day fighters such as the Hurricane and Spitfire.

The prototype Defiant, K8310 had one fitted, as did the second, K8620. If you look carefully, you can see the location of the lamp as it shows as a small raised area. I have attached two images - the air to air show just shows the lamp ( to the left of the yellow line I've added ) and the other shows it in place albeit with a loose housing and dangling wire. To give some kind of timeframe, L7012 was on strength with 141 Squadron in May 1940.

TPPObXO.png

tythBjb.jpg

Thanks again @AndyL, your eyesight must be good to spot the light fittings.  I trawled through photos without spotting anything.  I do like the loose fitment as well!  Now I'll have to drill a hole in the nearly finished model and bodge the lamp.  What could go wrong.

 

From your in-flight photo, I notice the wing 'strips' are differently coloured to the camouflage, I have also noticed this on early Hurricanes.  

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9 minutes ago, Olmec Head said:

Thanks Troy that makes sense, for fabric wing would these be wood or metal just out of interest, possible proper colour as well?

 

The joints strips are the same for either wing. 

 

They were only seen in primer before service.  I have never seen an operational Hurricane without the joint strips painted to match. 

 

(despite the caption this is not 56 Sq)  this is P3428 on a test flight

Hurricane_of_No_56_Squadron_flying_at_lo

 

hurricane-mk-1-p3428.jpg

 

 

 

 

Hurricane_Mk_II_PZ827.jpg

 

Colour? 

Primer.  light greeny grey it seems

Elsie Dalton Hewland was a war artist, with a very good eye for detail and colour

example

 

IWM_IWM_LD_3032-001.jpg

 

compare

15474365956_8d94382015_b.jpgHawker Typhoon. by Etienne du Plessis, on Flickr

 

She did paintings at Hawker's,  of the test area, 

 

IWM_IWM_LD_3286-001.jpg

and production line

GMIII_MCAG_1947_402-001.jpg

 

 

HTH

 

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6 hours ago, Olmec Head said:

Thanks again @AndyL, your eyesight must be good to spot the light fittings.  I trawled through photos without spotting anything.  I do like the loose fitment as well!  Now I'll have to drill a hole in the nearly finished model and bodge the lamp.  What could go wrong.

 

From your in-flight photo, I notice the wing 'strips' are differently coloured to the camouflage, I have also noticed this on early Hurricanes.  

Suggestion for adding the light: just drill an indentation rather than a hole, then use either one of the chrome marking pens (https://www.amazon.com/Molotow-ONE4ALL-Acrylic-Marker-703-103/dp/B01E7EGARQ/ref=asc_df_B01E7EGARQ/?tag=hyprod-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=198060274994&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=16290434221587015321&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=t&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9033713&hvtargid=pla-393676528541&psc=1) or paint in the depression, add a drop of UV curing resin and top it off with Tamiya (or other brand) clear yellow.

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6 hours ago, Troy Smith said:

 

The joints strips are the same for either wing. 

 

They were only seen in primer before service.  I have never seen an operational Hurricane without the joint strips painted to match. 

 

(despite the caption this is not 56 Sq)  this is P3428 on a test flight

Hurricane_of_No_56_Squadron_flying_at_lo

 

hurricane-mk-1-p3428.jpg

 

 

 

 

Hurricane_Mk_II_PZ827.jpg

 

Colour? 

Primer.  light greeny grey it seems

Elsie Dalton Hewland was a war artist, with a very good eye for detail and colour

example

 

IWM_IWM_LD_3032-001.jpg

 

compare

15474365956_8d94382015_b.jpgHawker Typhoon. by Etienne du Plessis, on Flickr

 

She did paintings at Hawker's,  of the test area, 

 

IWM_IWM_LD_3286-001.jpg

and production line

GMIII_MCAG_1947_402-001.jpg

 

 

HTH

 

Thanks Troy, It is the answer to a question I have always wanted to ask about the wing strips and excellent pictures as well.

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3 hours ago, Chuck1945 said:

Suggestion for adding the light: just drill an indentation rather than a hole, then use either one of the chrome marking pens (https://www.amazon.com/Molotow-ONE4ALL-Acrylic-Marker-703-103/dp/B01E7EGARQ/ref=asc_df_B01E7EGARQ/?tag=hyprod-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=198060274994&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=16290434221587015321&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=t&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9033713&hvtargid=pla-393676528541&psc=1) or paint in the depression, add a drop of UV curing resin and top it off with Tamiya (or other brand) clear yellow.

Thanks Chuck, all good ideas to mull over.

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Hello OlmecHead.       
 

I was lucky enough some years ago to visit RAF Cosford for an evening open cockpit event. This was a must do event as the P.B Defiant had just been delivered to Cosford and was in a state of disassembly, well, showing off all of her innards.  🤩

 

I ‘schmoosed’ the two gent’s in charge of the old girl that evening, I was courteous and polite, and got a little more than I could have anticipated, I got to be the only person to be offered to sit in the cockpit.  😋


View looking fwd. Flaps are down.  Belly hatch open.

spacer.png

 

Close up of the details.

spacer.png

 

View looking aft.

spacer.png

 

 

Hope these helps.      😉

 

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On 28/10/2022 at 14:59, amos brierley said:

Hello OlmecHead.       
 

I was lucky enough some years ago to visit RAF Cosford for an evening open cockpit event. This was a must do event as the P.B Defiant had just been delivered to Cosford and was in a state of disassembly, well, showing off all of her innards.  🤩

 

I ‘schmoosed’ the two gent’s in charge of the old girl that evening, I was courteous and polite, and got a little more than I could have anticipated, I got to be the only person to be offered to sit in the cockpit.  😋


View looking fwd. Flaps are down.  Belly hatch open.

spacer.png

 

Close up of the details.

spacer.png

 

View looking aft.

spacer.png

 

 

Hope these helps.      😉

 

Thanks very much for the pictures, they are ideal in showing the under nav lights.  It is a surprise that Airfix did not put the detail, but they also seemed to miss the radio and struts behind the cockpit.  Unfortunately, I have now done my model and I dare not tempt fate by trying to fix the light in post build.

 

 

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