stevehnz Posted November 23, 2022 Share Posted November 23, 2022 That really is shaping up well. 👍 Steve. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ceeb555 Posted November 23, 2022 Share Posted November 23, 2022 Not my scene at all but completely taken in looking at the thinking and modelling skills to achieve everything you have done so far. Happy following as you progress Chris 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toftdale Posted November 23, 2022 Share Posted November 23, 2022 On 22/11/2022 at 20:37, Stickframe said: On one hand, this looks relatively simple Not from were I'm sitting - great update, she's really looking the part - Andy 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silver911 Posted November 26, 2022 Share Posted November 26, 2022 Well my friend...your skills have grown exponentially since your last projects 😮...always an amazing depth of detail and atmosphere...it doesn't get better than this...bravo 😎 Ron 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stickframe Posted November 27, 2022 Author Share Posted November 27, 2022 Hi guys, thanks very much - I appreciate it! @silver911, Ron, great to hear from you! It's been a while since I've seen you on the forum. You know, I have to rightly admit that some of my willingness to try such a project is inspired by your work! In the spirit of willingness to try a project, I find that yes, first being willing to try is a big step - followed by the equal willingness to step back and redo if you know it doesn't look right, haha - think of cutting the bumper up because well, it just didn't look right. I was recently talking with a friend of mine who is an artist - she does some pretty remarkable large scale abstract sculpture, and some smaller objects with fine detail - in each recognizing scale proportion reflecting the piece. We were talking about the often unpleasant reality which is you might be able to pull something really nice together, but, if you can see it's not right, well, you can't really unsee it. So, for today's update, I went back to the bonnet/hood - and redid it. As to why: The truck on the left is a Kenworth T600 - commonly referred to as an "anteater" - that less than flattering label comes because the nose of the bonnet slopes downward pretty dramatically. In the middle a Peterbilt, and on the right, my attempt. I did the study early in this project, to try and convince myself that my hood angle looked correct. Well, it wasn't it was too steep. That reality doesn't clearly show up here, but it's wrong. Ultimately, I did get the fender openings about right. You can see the Pete fenders are conical, with a compound curve near the headlights, and the Kenworth fender is essentially horizontal, with a steep angle where the headlights are located. I concluded I should make a new bonnet - as I had a base hood from a kit that I ordered on Ebay a long time ago. A you'll see, I think the hood slope is now better: What a treat! nailed it! this is so good! woo hoo - uhhh, but something doesn't look quite right here....what is it? ahh - yes, of course, I modeled a Pete Kenworth hybrid! stunning...........So, despite getting some of it right, a pretty obvious part was wrong!! note the area where the headlights will go....a perfect match for a Kenworth!!! I did indeed try to pretend that I didn't notice that subtle point. But, as you can see above, the pencil lines show what more lor less should be happening here. So, out came the saw, knife and file: I carefully cut, filed, and added new styrene. I think this looks better - still not right (of course) but better. I realized the stumbling block that I couldn't fully overcome is the compound curve, coming off the front of the fender well, which sweeps toward the grill. Short of starting over, I have to call this it. Funnily enough, the challenge that followed might have been/is still more annoying. The new challenge? getting the putty to go on evenly and fill several really small gaps. As for a comparison, have a look: Old version is on the left - new on the right with primer. The most apparent victory is that the top slope looks better - but oy.....the bodywork looks terrible! I'll sand it back in the areas that look wrong. This time tho, I'll use Tamiya putty on big gaps, and Vallejo on the smaller. I've learned that the Tamiya putty is not good for use on thin materials, as it seems to induce some warping - whereas the Vallejo is very gentle - almost too gentle in that if you are even remotely heavy handed, all imperfections seem to jump out. OK gents, thanks for having a look - Cheers Nick 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silver911 Posted November 27, 2022 Share Posted November 27, 2022 Much as I appreciate your kind words and compliment...we both know my skills are surpassed by yours nowadays...if I inspired you in some small way...then that is the biggest compliment of all to me. Just keep on doing what your doing mate...a pleasure to behold. Respect Ron 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeroenS Posted November 28, 2022 Share Posted November 28, 2022 Great rework. You're right, it will not stop bugging you if you don't go back and do it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stickframe Posted November 30, 2022 Author Share Posted November 30, 2022 @silver911, well Ron, I'm not quite ready to dethrone you just yet! I appreciate your modesty, and fully recognize your talent! @JeroenS, yes, Jeroen, you know it! Nobody else will/might notice....haha. If you look carefully, I removed and relocated part of the tubing surrounding the winch on the driver side - it wasn't level! Was driving me nuts!! For today, something of a small update. The cab is now closed in and glued together: So, how many shift levers??? All of them! Transmission, PTO engage, winch in and out, winch brake, and well, plenty. Looking at pictures, I saw these trucks use a separate console next to the driver to operate the various winches. As these are power take off units, they are driven by the truck main transmission - evidently a gear split, set up in such a way that the winch speed can be adjusted by the gear box (changing gears) and the truck can drive, or not at the same time. Sorry about the crummy pics. I was on something of a roll last night, so took some quick pics and then glued it together. In the hopes that some of this detail might be somewhat evident when done, I painted the cab walls light tan and cut the side windows, only keeping the the small wing windows. All of that said, my guess is you won't be able to see much of this. I also went about adding some detail to the firewall. Considering how little is here, it took quite a while to get done! While only dryfit, you can see the hood loosely mated to the cab, and some details within. The small tank, next to the door steps is called a DEF tank - you ask what is a DEF tank? Well, here in sunny California they are required: What is in a DEF tank? Diesel Exhaust Fluid (DEF) is a solution of urea and water that's injected into the exhaust stream of diesel vehicles to turn NOx gases (harmful emissions) into nitrogen and water. This system is called a Selective Catalytic Reduction (SCR) implemented by vehicle manufacturers to meet EPA emissions standards in 2010.Sep 15, 2020 I have no idea how, or if they impact power etc - but, I see them around. Above - overall progress. Need to work on the bed still, but am waiting for some pulleys from Shapeway for the rigging, will add more to the passenger side of the engine, and add the logo plates to the side of the bonnet/hood. I might wind up painting up the rolling chassis too - just to keep it moving. Ok guys, thanks for having a look - Cheers Nick 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeroenS Posted November 30, 2022 Share Posted November 30, 2022 Man, what a rig! Super cool. I've heard DEF called "government juice" on YouTube 🙂 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dnl42 Posted November 30, 2022 Share Posted November 30, 2022 This just continues to get better. AFAIK, the EPA mandated DEF since '10 or so. Like the cooling package, it's not an egine feature but a 'chassis' feature. I have a 10 gal DEF tank and a 100 gal fuel tank. No clue if there's a mileage impact as it's injected into the exhaust. The problem with the stuff is no-DEF, no power! 😱 If DEF gets too low, the engine will derate, which is a serious problem. Worse still, it won't restart if shutdown after the derate is activated until DEF is refilled. I never allow DEF to go below 25% on the guage and I always carry a spare jug. There had been some recent supply chain problems with availability of DEF and sensor repair components that have standed some. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keefr22 Posted November 30, 2022 Share Posted November 30, 2022 That's a really tough looking truck! Great progress Nick, cab interior looks cosy! Keith 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
busnproplinerfan Posted December 1, 2022 Share Posted December 1, 2022 23 hours ago, dnl42 said: This just continues to get better. AFAIK, the EPA mandated DEF since '10 or so. Like the cooling package, it's not an egine feature but a 'chassis' feature. I have a 10 gal DEF tank and a 100 gal fuel tank. No clue if there's a mileage impact as it's injected into the exhaust. The problem with the stuff is no-DEF, no power! 😱 If DEF gets too low, the engine will derate, which is a serious problem. Worse still, it won't restart if shutdown after the derate is activated until DEF is refilled. I never allow DEF to go below 25% on the guage and I always carry a spare jug. There had been some recent supply chain problems with availability of DEF and sensor repair components that have standed some. At my work we have coaches that most use DEF. I keep them filled after each trip. Biggest problem we had was a driver mistakenly put DEF into the fuel tank, not much but had to have the bus towed and the tanks drained and whatever else had to be done. Luckily he didn't start it. The two filler caps are beside each other behind the body panels so it could be screwed up. We have decals on the panel doors now. I did notice the electronic dash display for the DEF amount is far from accurate, wish they'd have just put a sight glass or tube on the tank. 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dnl42 Posted December 1, 2022 Share Posted December 1, 2022 6 minutes ago, busnproplinerfan said: At my work we have coaches that most use DEF. I keep them filled after each trip. Biggest problem we had was a driver mistakenly put DEF into the fuel tank, not much but had to have the bus towed and the tanks drained and whatever else had to be done. Luckily he didn't start it. The two filler caps are beside each other behind the body panels so it could be screwed up. We have decals on the panel doors now. I did notice the electronic dash display for the DEF amount is far from accurate, wish they'd have just put a sight glass or tube on the tank. I read that there used to be some manner of magnetic collar that was supposed to prevent cross-filling DEF v. diesel. My Freightliner chassis has a pseudo-analog gauge on the tank as well as a 4-bar display on the IP--that display is why I mentioned 25%. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
busnproplinerfan Posted December 2, 2022 Share Posted December 2, 2022 7 hours ago, dnl42 said: I read that there used to be some manner of magnetic collar that was supposed to prevent cross-filling DEF v. diesel. My Freightliner chassis has a pseudo-analog gauge on the tank as well as a 4-bar display on the IP--that display is why I mentioned 25%. Not sure, I just fill them. It's two separate tanks. When I fill them, the dash display takes forever to show full. I never use the display anyway. My job is servicing the bus after each trip, driver has to watch the guage. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stickframe Posted December 4, 2022 Author Share Posted December 4, 2022 Hi guys, thanks for sharing the info on the DEF tank - interesting to learn - Today's update is on the bed. A few small pulley arrived from Shapeways, so into action they went: As you can see above, the poles dry fitted. They stand on their own because I included some small stops in the hinges. The poles are alu tube. At the head, I have added two pulleys, attached to a brass rod, with a separate alu bracket. This allows the pulleys to swing freely from one another - you'll see more clearly below. The red lines represent the winch lift line, while the green represent ties - keeping the poles in place during use, by tying them off on the bed. Below, the traveling position: Getting this to work was one of those times when a third hand might have been useful - alas, none to be had there - so, just time and patience. The challenge was to get dry fit parts to stay together while trying to get them clocked - and getting the pole lengths adjusted so that the "head" is centered. As to how it works: The top pictures are of the inside and outside of the head. The left is the pulley and bracket on the inside which attaches to the tie backs. The picture on the right is the pull winch pulley. You can see I added bushings to either side of the pull pulley, then the bracket, all of which is connected by brass rod, capped on the ends. I must say, this took some head scratching to resolve. In the lower left, you can see the bed pulley. Like this in real life, these are big, removable pulleys. In the lower right you can see the tie backs These are two brass shackles (I think from a 1/35 panzer?) which serve as the tie back points. And below, a few other details: On the left, once again, the hood/bonnet. Well - now it sits flush against the cab. More filing, and, I added some thick white metal rods for weights inside the hood - simply to keep it flush on the cab. Unhappily, you can also see where I need still more putty..... On the right, a good view of the tieback shackles and you can see a couple of spot lights added to the rack. You can also see how the poles rest on the winch rack. OK guys, thanks for having a look - Cheers Nick 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
busnproplinerfan Posted December 5, 2022 Share Posted December 5, 2022 It's one of those catapult trucks, Looks good, I only seen pictures of trucks from the 60s set up like this. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeroenS Posted December 5, 2022 Share Posted December 5, 2022 Nice work on the hardware Nick! It's looking the part. I'm wondering though, how do they get these poles in the upright position? Looks like an awkward angle on the winches and bed pulley. On the other hand, there may just be a simple solution for it, can't say I've ever seen one of these things in real life 🙂 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keefr22 Posted December 5, 2022 Share Posted December 5, 2022 More excellent model engineering there Nick, have to admit I wouldn't have a clue to go about making stuff like this work, I have enough trouble following kit instructions to stick bits together..!! Keith 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stickframe Posted December 5, 2022 Author Share Posted December 5, 2022 Thanks for having a look fellow model builders. No update, now, but some info on the real truck. @busnproplinerfan, well, it seems this type of truck has been around a long time - and are still in use. After I read your comment, I took a look for on line sales, auctions etc and found some trucks, with the most recent being a 2019 rig - there were some 2024 trucks, but they were fifth wheel winch trucks. Please see: Interestingly (to me anyway) is the number of really big, new, twin steer models of this truck are in use and apparently still being made - some even 8 x 8s - huge rigs. @JeroenS, hi Jeroen, you are not alone in wondering how these trucks work, and what the setup procedures are. While building this, I found a youtube video of a guy setting one up and tearing it down. Despite what looks like inoperable geometry (I agree with your thoughts on this), the winch and pulleys are indeed used for setup. I took several screen shots of the video during setup. I don't get how the leverage works here, but as I am not planning on becoming a rigger anytime soon, I can comfortably live with that mystery! Please see the following sequence: Et voila! Evidently the geometry works! More interesting is the take down procedure - all the safety here 😁. In this video, the operator loosely chained the poles in the outward position - with a few feet of slack in the chain (tied from mid-height on the poles to the back bumper). He then added another chain about halfway up one of the poles, and ran it over and then under the forward side of the rear tires - follow me here - then, he drove forward over the chain, allowing the tires to operate like a chain winch. This action pulled the poles back toward the cab! The movement was eventually halted by the previously described loose chain - and once "over the top" the cable winch was used to gradually lower the poles back to the bed! Clearly low tech and equally clearly effective! Not something I'd try as a less-than-amateur!! 😄 @keefr22, hi Keith, I'm sure you'll guess what I'm about to say regarding this type of model building. Take on a project - and feel ok if it doesn't work as planned the first few times, and keep trying until you feel better about it. My first few scratch attempts were pretty straight forward, adding a few details here and there. Some worked out as planned and others....well, less so! As Joroen pointed out earlier, you can pretty quickly see if you did something right or wrong! and if you don't go back and fix it, will drive you crazy looking at it 😁 Some things you can fix and others you need to live with, in either case, it's still only a model - and as I do this as a hobby, it's fine! Race cars are a good place to start with scratch work, as many kits only include a simple body shell and chassis without much detail - maybe start by improving a firewall, fuel cell, raising or lowering ride height, or adding/cleaning up chassis bits - whatever catches your eye! You might want to give it a go! At this point, I enjoy the challenge! Thanks for having a look - Cheers Nick 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
busnproplinerfan Posted December 5, 2022 Share Posted December 5, 2022 I've heard them called gin pole trucks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keefr22 Posted December 5, 2022 Share Posted December 5, 2022 41 minutes ago, Stickframe said: You might want to give it a go! Hi Nick, I do actually do a lot of competition car detailing - but none of it works (I often end up glueing the wheels solid too. Sometimes intentionally!! ) Keith 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete in Lincs Posted December 5, 2022 Share Posted December 5, 2022 Nick, It's looking very impressive. Lots of lovely detail and it looks very close to the real thing. Your DEF is our Adblue, BTW. Same stuff I think, pretty much for the same purpose. Also used on certain cars. Diesel Volvo's for one. 1 hour ago, Stickframe said: Clearly low tech and equally clearly effective! Nothing wrong with that. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
busnproplinerfan Posted December 5, 2022 Share Posted December 5, 2022 I don't know why DEF is referred to as a"blue", It's clear, stinks, will quickly cause corrosion on aluminum and only the cap is a standard blue colour. It's essentially horse urine and amonia plus a few other things. I wonder how the chemists came up with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stickframe Posted December 24, 2022 Author Share Posted December 24, 2022 Hello model builders, Something of a brief update today. I painted the chassis and have begun detail painting: We are making some progress. The whole thing was primed with Tamiya grey, then used a solid coat of Vallejo Anthracite grey. Next, several washes of various shades of black and grey, and a few other colors as needed. It's too bad these are indoor photos, as you can't see much variation in tone, but, they are there and will be evident in the final outdoor photos. This will receive an overall wash in dust, then grime and so on. I'm pleased so far, especially when considering how much hacking I did on the base assembly. So for now, off to the holidays! Work picked up so this went to the back of the shelf, but I might be able to get back on it later next week - Enjoy the holiday - Nick 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeroenS Posted December 24, 2022 Share Posted December 24, 2022 Oh yeah, paint! That's looking brilliant already. Merry Christmas Nick! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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