Austin-Heley 3000

[Vesa Jussila]

There was nice picture of Big Healey in Motorsport of the day thread. And I started to think is there kit of this available in 1/24 or 25 scale. Only kit I am aware of is old Healey 100 from Revell. This can be of course be a starting point. Any ideas? 

[Black Knight]

Austin-Healey

K&R Replicas does the A-H 3000 as a metal kit, in 1/24

 

https://www.scalemates.com/kits/kandr-replicas-kar2424-austin-healey-3000--996039

 

Aurora did the 3000 in 1/32

[Paul H]

The Revell kit is a 100/6 2+2, so much closer to an early 3000 than if it were the earlier 4cyl 100.  The wheels & tyres will need upgrading, and IIRC, the headlights are solid chrome mouldings rather than chrome buckets with clear lenses, but otherwise it is a pretty well detailed kit for its era.

[Sabrejet]

I always wondered why A-H 3000s were known as 'big' Healeys? They're not physically that large and the 3-litre engine not that large in capacity either (contemporary sports cars such as the Daimler Dart, Sunbeam Tiger and even E-Type had engines a lot larger in capacity). Was it an ironic term?

 

Or is it more accurately, "Bigger Healey"? I'm not trying to re-write history, just curious.

[MikeA]

3 hours ago, Sabrejet said:

I always wondered why A-H 3000s were known as 'big' Healeys? They're not physically that large and the 3-litre engine not that large in capacity either (contemporary sports cars such as the Daimler Dart, Sunbeam Tiger and even E-Type had engines a lot larger in capacity). Was it an ironic term?

 

Or is it more accurately, "Bigger Healey"? I'm not trying to re-write history, just curious.

The 3000cc engine was big compared to that in the Austin Healy 100 - 2600cc or thereabouts. it was a fairly common way of distinguishing larger models, particularly with those produced in the UK.

 

Cheers

Mike

[Sabrejet]

I must admit I've only heard it applied to Austin-Healeys. Mind you describing a 1275GT as a 'Big Mini' probably doesn't sound right....

[Paul H]

The 'Big Healey' reference applies to the 100, 100/6 and the 3000 - it is purely to differentiate them from the much smaller Austin Healey Sprite.

[Graham Boak]

Yes to the above, but you are hung up a little on "contemporary".  The use of the US V8s in small British chassis was yet to come - not the Sunbeam Tiger but the Alpine.was around.  Perhaps the Cobra was on the horizon, but initially as a pure racer.  Yes the Jaguars were larger, but a 3 litre was certainly regarded as a big engine - after all, if it was good enough for the Ferrari 250GT and dominating Le Mans and the Sports Car Championship after the D-Type era, it was certainly large for British roads.  British production sports cars tended to be around 2 litres, perhaps a hangover from the widely used Alta or convenient breathed-on medium-sized production engines.

[Fastcat]

In the dim and distant past I used to own a Healey 100/4 and I've always understood that the term "big" Healey was used to make some sort of distinction from the smaller Austin Healey Sprites, as Paul H says. My car was always referred to as a Big Healey. It had a capacity of 2660 cc and was only four cylinders, predating the 3000 by a few years, first being made in 1953 (mine was a 1954 model). It was originally designed by Donald Healey as a private venture but was taken over by Austin for mass production. I don't think the nickname was used at first but came about when the smaller Sprite was introduced, kind of like the differentiation between the earlier Frogeye Sprites and later models. I'm sure that they were never official designations.

 

Dave

Edited October 31, 2022 by Fastcat
Too quick to press "submit" button

[mdesaxe]

On 10/29/2022 at 12:38 PM, Sabrejet said:

They're not physically that large and the 3-litre engine not that large in capacity either (contemporary sports cars such as the Daimler Dart, Sunbeam Tiger and even E-Type had engines a lot larger in capacity).

@Sabrejet My Daimler SP250 (popularly known as a Daimler Dart but I don't think Daimler ever so designated it) had a 2.5 litre V-8 - smaller than the 3-litre engine of my Austin-Healey 3000 Mk.II.

 

Maurice

[Sabrejet]

On 30/10/2022 at 09:54, Graham Boak said:

Yes to the above, but you are hung up a little on "contemporary".  The use of the US V8s in small British chassis was yet to come

 

Nooo! Allard had been doing it for ages, starting in the 1940s. The Cadillac V8 (and to a lesser extent the Ford Pilot V8) was used in all sorts of specials before the small-block Chevy and Ford V8 came along. 

Edited October 31, 2022 by Sabrejet

[johnlambert]

3 hours ago, mdesaxe said:

@Sabrejet My Daimler SP250 (popularly known as a Daimler Dart but I don't think Daimler ever so designated it) had a 2.5 litre V-8 - smaller than the 3-litre engine of my Austin-Healey 3000 Mk.II.

 

Maurice

I recall that Daimler originally planned to use the Dart name but Dodge already owned the rights, so the car was always officially the SP250.  And yet, a bit like the Volvo Amazon (which only carried that name in its home market) or Ferrari Daytona the name stuck even if it was never official.

 

As for engine sizes in British sports cars of the 1950s; the MG T-series never had anything larger than 1.5 litres and the MG A only went as far as 1,600cc.  The MGB and its 1.8-litres didn't arrive until 1962.  The Triumph TRs had relatively big engines at two litres (reduced from the 2.2-litre Standard Vanguard so they could race in the sub-2-litre class), which I think Morgan also used.  The more upmarket AC Ace was usually a two-litre job (AC's ancient OHC engine or the expensive but impeccably engineered Bristol), HRG was either an 1,100 or 1,500.  There's probably some manufacturer I've forgotten, yes Allard used Ford sidevalve V8s of 3.9 litres (which is what most UK cars had) or five-point-something American V8s from Cadillac or Chrysler mostly for export.  So the "Big Healey" with its 2.6-litre four from the Austin Atlantic and later 2.6 and 2.9-litre C-series six-pot was quite a big engine in a small car.

 

Oh yes, Jaguar gave you quite a lot of "bang for your buck" with 3.4 or 3.8 litres (but still relatively expensive if you were an average person) and I think Aston Martin (for the very rich) had the W.O. Bentley-designed twin cam from Lagonda of 2.6 or 3-litres, then the 3.7-litre twin cam in the DB4 (by Takek Marek, I've not looked that up so probably wrong spelling) from 1959.

[Noel Smith]

A newly tooled kit of an Austin Healey 3000 would be nice.

[Paul H]

Regarding the discussion of V8s in UK cars, there were a few different UK designed & built V8 models in the 1930s, although purely saloons - Standard's was a sidevalve one, and Riley did two triple cam hemi V8s. All were essentially paired up 4 cylinder engines from their existing ranges though, hence the triple cam set up when joining together a pair of Riley twin cams.

 

1 hour ago, Noel Smith said:

A newly tooled kit of an Austin Healey 3000 would be nice.

 

I fully agree, but I doubt that we will get an injection moulded one.  Unless it has instant recognition (e.g. E Type, Mini, L-R), mainstream new tool old 'normal' UK stuff just doesn't seem to be happening.  For old French stuff, there is Heller who are slowly bringing out new kits  but we don't have an equivelent manufacturer in the UK.  That it has taken this long for Revell to do their L-R S3 is a surprise, and 

 

I can think of quite a few '50s, '60s & '70s UK cars which I reckon would sell well due to the brand recognition and popularity of the real thing, as well as the scope in some cases for multiple variants, and there has been no sign of those...  I hasten to add that this is not wishlisting - most are ones that I have no personal interest in at all, and would be very unlikely to buy.

 

Outside of the road cars listed above, off the top of my head in 1:24: Heller's Bentley, Gunze's TR2, 3 & 3A, Frogeye & Elan, Aoshima's MGB & XJS, Tamiya's Lotus 7, Europa, Morgan and Jag Mk2 (the Bentley being 1970s tooling, most being 1980s and the most recent being the Morgan in 1996), and Fujimi's Esprit and Europa in 2015, however this was due to James Bond and Manga connections for both models.  1980s stuff seems to be happening, but only due to the track / rally connection, e.g. the recent Metro 6R4 and announced but yet to be released Rover SD1 Vitesse touring car.

 

I suspect that this is due to market demographics for car modellers, and that the age group who would look back nostalgically at an AH 3000 etc are no longer the main market, and are a shrinking one too compared to the growth of interest in '80s stuff.

[Noel Smith]

Some salient points there Paul.    Some wishful thinking on my part!